Pre-destiny belief in islam

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languagemaniac

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If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will came out, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."


what do you think on this verse
 
Basically...

Allah (swt) Knows everything that will happen to the whole creation form the time it was created till it dies and after it is resurrected.

Allah (swt) Knows all this from His Infinite Knowledge and Wisdom.

So He (swt) commanded the pen to write everything that will happen and the pen did- on the sacred tablet (which is safe with Allah and no-one has access to it)

This is Ultimate Decree and there is no change in it...

With me so far??

Ok- Now just because its written down it doesnt mean we are forced or compelled to do our actions- rather the fact that everything has been written down represents Allah (swt)'s Knowlegde of it.

Question If Allah (swt) Knows our end (if we will enter the Fire or Paradise) why create the world and Iblis (satan) and allow things to play thier role?

Beacause of the Infinite Justice of Allah (swt).

It would be irrational to punish the criminal, before he commits the crime.

And it would be injustice to prosecute a criminal, before he has a trial and the evidence bought against him.... (sounds like Guantanamo Bay)

So on the Day of Judgement no one who heard about Islam can not say they did not... Nor the oppressors deny thier deeds...

Everyone will see what they did and will be recognised by thier appearance.

"you will see the Mujrimûn (criminals, polytheists, sinners), fearful of that which is (recorded) therein. They will say: "Woe to us! What sort of Book is this that leaves neither a small thing nor a big thing, but has recorded it with numbers!" And they will find all that they did, placed before them, and your Lord treats no one with injustice." (18:49)

But we chose which path to go down and do good or bad we are not puppets.


 
Greetings,

languagemaniac said:
whether there s a pre-destiny belief in islam/qran or not...
Click to expand...
Then the answer is yes:

Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz). [Qur'an 54:49]
 
So what factors cannot we control...When we are born..When we die...our gender...who our parents are... how much money we will acquire...and who we marry?

please correct me if im wrong

Jazakallah
 
Muhammad said:
Greetings,

Then the answer is yes:

Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz). [Qur'an 54:49]
Click to expand...
hello ...

then what s the meaning of punishment and reward as you dont have any choice.god decideds what yo have to do . thats completely nonsense and thats why ı m not muslim...
 
But we chose which path to go down and do good or bad we are not puppets.


[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

. If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me came true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."

are you still sure we choose our path?
 
languagemaniac said:
hello ...

then what s the meaning of punishment and reward as you dont have any choice.god decideds what yo have to do . thats completely nonsense and thats why ı m not muslim...
Click to expand...

please read my above post if God Wills you will get my answer
 
languagemaniac said:
d from Me came true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."

are you still sure we choose our path?
Click to expand...

100% :)

You are in the same trap Iblis the Father of Satans was in many thousands of years before and that is to blame God for his sins and wrong actions...

Allah (swt) Commands Iblis to prostrate to Adam (as), but Iblis being the "free-thinker" that he is, decides that he knows better than Allah (swt) and he disobeys Allah out of his own free will has the audacity to accuse Allah of leading His astray...

"(Iblîs) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path" (7:16)
 
When Allah (swt) commands us to do something or prohibits us from something He does so out of His Infinite Wisdom and Knows what is good and bad for us.

The problem is our minds are limited (we can not comprehend the number of stars in the sky) let alone the Infite Wisdom of Allah (swt) and thus we fall into the trap of asking (mostly out of arrogance rather than seeking clarification) "why would God do this and why would God to that" and since our little brains cant understand we end up saying "We are free-thinkers and we wont obey"...
 
Book 033, Number 6390:

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who is the most truthful (of the human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) said: Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends His angel to it with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds, his fortune and misfortune. By Him, besides Whom there is no god, that one amongst you acts like the people deserving Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when suddenly the writing of destiny overcomes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell, and another one acts in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit that the writing of destiny overcomes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise.

this hadith from sahihi Muslim concerning pre-destiny in islam
 
Ok lets make this really really simple...

Anyone who denies that Predestination and Decree doesnt not exist is a kafir (disbeliever) because all muslims must believe that Good and Bad is from Allah (swt).

It is not like the common understanding of Predestination that we are forced and compelled to do what we do and then punished for it.

Rather Predestination means Allah Knows what will happen to us and what choices we will make, so He wrote it down, that writing down has no relevance or effect in our ability to chose.

eg. You went to a shop and I know you will buy 5 apples so i write it on my hand. You come out with 5 apples- does that mean i forced you into buying 5 apples?

No

In the same way, Allah (swt) can write down what will happen and what choices we make and it has no bearing on our ability you choose between right and wrong.

My advice to you is to actually sit down with a scholar and go through this topic... rather than randomly picking out ayat and hadith and pretending to know something you dont for the sake of arguing.

If you are sincere about clarifying your misconceptions about islam then you will be accepted with open arms and open hearts.
because....

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path." (2:255)

:)
 
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abu_musab461 said:
Ok lets make this really really simple...

Anyone who denies that Predestination and Decree doesnt not exist is a kafir (disbeliever) because all muslims must believe that Good and Bad is from Allah (swt).

It is not like the common understanding of Predestination that we are forced and compelled to do what we do and then punished for it.

My advice to you is to actually sit down with a scholar and go through this topic... rather than randomly picking out ayat and hadith and pretending to know something you dont for the sake of arguing.

If you are since about clarifying your misconceptions about islam then you will be accepted with open arms and open hearts.

and

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path." (2:255)
Click to expand...

Great Answer Brother

JazakALLAH
 
abu_musab461 said:
Ok lets make this really really simple...

Anyone who denies that Predestination and Decree doesnt not exist is a kafir (disbeliever) because all muslims must believe that Good and Bad is from Allah (swt).

It is not like the common understanding of Predestination that we are forced and compelled to do what we do and then punished for it.

Rather Predestination means Allah Knows what will happen to us and what choices we will make, so He wrote it down, that writing down has no relevance or effect in our ability to chose.

eg. You went to a shop and I know you will buy 5 apples so i write it on my hand. You come out with 5 apples- does that mean i forced you into buying 5 apples?

No

In the same way, Allah (swt) can write down what will happen and what choices we make and it has no bearing on our ability you choose between right and wrong.

My advice to you is to actually sit down with a scholar and go through this topic... rather than randomly picking out ayat and hadith and pretending to know something you dont for the sake of arguing.

If you are sincere about clarifying your misconceptions about islam then you will be accepted with open arms and open hearts.
because....

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path." (2:255)

:)
Click to expand...

Forgive me guys if i said anyhting incorrect, i havent got my notes on me so just answering from the top of my head.

Lack of ability to understand simple issues about the Divine Decree has lead bigger fish like Iblis astray, so me and you are nobody...
 
"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path." [/B] (2:255)

:)[/QUOTE]

you depend only on your belief no matter how much inconsistent quran is.sorry but ı couldnt get any satisfactory explantion for my questions although ı m very keen to find right anwser s but ı was dissapointed..
 
I dont mean to be rude but these are not topics that you can just sit and discuss on forum over a cup of tea or dinner.

For start, you dont know arabic so how will you be able to access the Quran and analyse it?

The english? Well that's not actually the Quran.

You know better than me, that many things when transerlated lose the true mean and some things can be expressed in the limited language like english.

So you should either sit with a scholar or someone more knowledgeable than me (at least- cos i aint even a student of knowlegde) who will be more than happy to answer your questions satisfactorily,
 
:sl:

I guess since this subject has been bought up I have a question of my own, if it's ok to ask, inshallah. :)

We see in the Quran that Allah (SWT) guides whom he Wills, and we also see that the Quran says that we have a choice to choose belief and disbelief.

I think I understand the belief of Qadr, but what does it mean that "Allah guides whom he wills"? How can belief be a choice if it is Allah (SWT) who decides who believes and disbelieves? I know that nothing takes place with out the Knowledge and Will of Allah (SWT) but when Allah (SWT) guides someone, does that mean that freedom of choice is gone? I have so many thoughts when it comes to this subject so I am trying to get all my thoughts in this question so I hope my question is clear, inshallah.

I hope someone can clarify this to me? inshallah.
 
abu_musab461 said:
I dont mean to be rude but these are not topics that you can just sit and discuss on forum over a cup of tea or dinner.

For start, you dont know arabic so how will you be able to access the Quran and analyse it?

The english? Well that's not actually the Quran.

You know better than me, that many things when transerlated lose the true mean and some things can be expressed in the limited language like english.

So you should either sit with a scholar or someone more knowledgeable than me (at least- cos i aint even a student of knowlegde) who will be more than happy to answer your questions satisfactorily,
Click to expand...


but why do i need a scholar whereas quran itself is a mubeen that means clear, in detail, explained entirely?
 

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