After deciding to depart this forum and take from you the benefits of my insightful thought and sharp wit I find myself with a question which I am having difficulty to answer and knowing the answer lies amongst you I return for your help.
The non Muslims world sees its citizens being attacked by Muslims and in considering what is happening has formed the view that there are two types of Muslim, Islamists and Muslims or radical Muslims and moderate Muslims. Words have been invented to describe the ‘bad’ Muslims and the ‘good’ Muslims. I came across an article on the Middle East Forum which Argued that "radical Islam is the problem, moderate Islam is the solution."
My question is – what is radical Islam and what is moderate Islam; surely there is just Islam?
The next question is, is Islam radical or moderate; is Islam a religion promoting cohesion and peace or division and conflict?
If you believe that there is a radical Islam and a moderate Islam and radical Muslims and moderate Muslim; what is a moderate Muslim, what does he/she believe and do differently than the Islamist?
If there are radical and moderate Muslims, what percentage of the membership here is radical / moderate?
1.
Jarudiyah
Followers of Abu'l-Jarud, They believe Prophet (pbuh) designated Ali (ra) as the Imam by his characteristics but not by name.
2.
Sulaimaniah / Jaririyah
Followers of Sulaiman ibn-Jarir al-Zaidi, They believed Imamat was a matter of conference and could be confirmed by two best Muslims.
3.
Butriyah / Hurariyah
They did not dispute the Khilafat of Uthman, neither they attack him nor praise him.
4.
Yaqubiyya
They accepted the Khilafat of Abu Bakr and Umar, but did not reject those who rejected these Khulafaa. They also believed that Muslim committers of Major sins will be in hell fire forever.
5.
Hanafiyah
Followers of the Imammate of Muhammad ibn-al-Hanifah. They believe that Allah might have had a beginning.
6.
Karibiyah
They believed that Imam Muhammad ibn-al-Hanifah is not dead and is the Imam Ghaib (in disappearance) and the expected Mahdi.
7.
Kamiliyah
Followers of abu-Kamil. They believed companions to be heretic because they forsook their allegiance to Ali and condemn Ali for ceasing to fight them. They believed in the returning of the dead before the Day of Resurrection and that Satan is right in preferring fire to clay.
8.
Muhammadiyyah / Mughairiyah
Followers of Muhammad ibn-'Abdullah ibn-al-Hassan. They do not believe that Imam Muhammad ibn-'Abdullah died and that he is Imam Ghaib and awaited Mahdi.
9.
Baqiriyah
Followers of Muhammad ibn-'Ali al-Baqir. They believe him to be the Imam Ghaib and expected Mahdi.
10.
Nadisiyah
They believe that those who consider themselves better than anyone else are Kafirs (disbelievers).
11.
Sha'iyah
They believe that the one who has recited La Ilaha Il-Allah (There is none worthy of worship except Allah), whatever she or he does, will never be punished.
12.
Ammaliyah
They believe that faith for one is what he/she sincerely practices.
13.
Ismailiyah
They believe in the continuity of Imammate among the descendants of Ismail ibn-Ja'far.
14.
Musawiyah / Mamturah
They believe Musa ibn-Ja'far to be the Imam Ghaib and expected Mahdi.
15.
Mubarikiyah
They believe in the continuity of Imammate among the descendants of Muhammad ibn-Ismail ibn-Ja'far.
16.
Kathiyah / Ithn 'Ashariya (the Twelvers)
They believe that expected Mahdi will be the twelveth Imam among the descendants of 'Ali ibn-abi-Talib.
17.
Hashamiya / Taraqibiyah
They Predicate a body to Allah and also allege Prophet (pbuh) of disobedience to Allah.
18.
Zarariyah
They believed that Allah did not live nor had any attributes till He created for Himself life and His attributes.
19.
Younasiyah
Followers of Younas ibn-'Abd-al-Rahman al-Kummi. They believe that Allah is borne by bearers of His Throne, though He is stronger than they.
20.
Shaitaniyah / Shireekiyah
They believed in the view that deeds of servants of Allah are substances; and a servant of Allah can really produce a substance.
21.
Azraqiah
Followers of Nafi ibn-al-Azraq. They do not believe in the good dreams and vision and claim that all forms of revelation has ended.
22.
Najadat
Followers of Najdah ibn-'Amir al-Hanafi. They abolished the punishment for drinking wine also they believed that sinners of this sect would not be treated in hellfire but some other place before allowed in paradise.
23.
Sufriyah
Followers of Ziyad ibn-al-Asfar. They believed that sinners are in fact polytheists.
24.
Ajaridah
Followers of Abd-al-Karim ibn-Ajrad. They believed that a child should be called to Islam after it has attained maturity. Also they believed booty of war to be unlawful till the owner is killed.
25.
Khazimiyah
They believe Allah loves men of all faiths even if one has been disbeliever most of his life.
26.
Shuaibiyah / Hujjatiyah
They believe that what Allah desires does happen no matter what and what does not happen it means Allah desires it not.
27.
Khalafiyah
Followers of Khalaf. They do not believe in fighting except under the leadership of an Imam.
28.
Ma'lumiyah / Majhuliyah
They believed that whoever did not recognize Allah by all His names was ignorant of Him and anyone ignorant of Him was a disbeliever.
29.
Saltiyah
Followers of Salt ibn-Uthman. They believed in the conversion of adults only and if father has converted to Islam children were considered disbeliever till they reach maturity.
30.
Hamziyah
Followers of Hamza ibn-Akrak. They believe that children of polythiests are condemned to hell.
31.
Tha'libiyah
Followers of Tha'labah ibn-Mashkan. They believe that parents remain guardian over their children of any age until children make it clear to parents that they are turning away from truth.
32.
Ma'badiyah
They did not believe in taking or giving alms from or to slaves.
33.
Akhnasiyah
They do not believe in waging a war except in defense or when the opponent is known personally.
34.
Shaibaniyah / Mashbiyah
Followers of Shaiban ibn-Salamah al-Khariji. They believe Allah resembles His creatures.
35.
Rashidiyah
They believe that land watered by springs, canals or flowing rivers should pay half the Zakat (Tithe), while land watered by rain only should pay the full Zakat.
36.
Mukarramiyah / Tehmiyah
Followers of abu-Mukarram. They believe that ignorance constitutes as disbelief. Also that Allah enmity or friendship depends upon the state of a persons belief at his death.
37.
Ibadiyah / Af'aliyah
Consider Abdullah ibn-Ibad as their Imam. They believe in doing good deeds without the intention of pleasing Allah.
38.
Hafsiyah
Consider Hafs ibn-abi-l-Mikdam as their Imam. They believe that only knowing Allah frees one from polytheism
39.
Harithiya
Followers of Harith ibn-Mazid al-Ibadi. They believe that the ability precedes the deeds.
40.
Ashab Ta'ah
They believe that Allah can send a prophet without giving him any sign to prove his prophecy.
41.
Shabibiyah / Salihiyah
Followers of Shabib ibn-Yazid al-Shaibani. They believe in the Imamate of a woman named Ghazalah.
42.
Wasiliyah
Followers of Wasil ibn-'Ata al-Ghazza. They believe that those who commit major sins will be punished in hell but still remain believers.
43.
'Amriyah
Followers of 'Amr ibn-Ubaid ibn-Bab. They reject the legal testimony of people from supporters of either side of the battle of Camel.
44.
Hudhailiyah / Faniya
Followers of abu-al-Hudhail Muhammad ibn-al-Hudhail. They believe that both Hell and Paradise will perish and that preordination of Allah can cease, at which time Allah will no longer be omnipotent.
45.
Nazzamiyah
Followers of abu-Ishaq Ibrahim ibn-Saiyar. They do not believe in the miraculous nature of the Holy Quran nor do they believe the miracles of Holy Prophet (pbuh) like splitting the moon.
46.
Mu'ammariyah
They Believe that Allah neither creates life nor death but it is an act of the nature of living body.
47.
Bashriyah
Followers of Bashr ibn-al-Mu'tamir. They believe that Allah may forgive a man his sins and may change His mind about this forgiveness and punish him if he is disobedient again.
48.
Hishamiyah
Followers of Hisham ibn-'Amr al-Futi. They believe that if a Muslim community come to consensus it need an Imam and if it rebels and kills its Imam, no one should be chosen an Imam during a rebellion.
49.
Murdariyah
Followers of Isa ibn-Sabih. They believe that staying in close communication with the Sultan (ruler) makes one unbeliever.
50.
Ja'friyah
Followers of Ja'far ibn-Harb and Ja'far ibn-Mubashshir. They believe that drinking raw wine is not punishable and that punishment of hell could be inferred by a mental process.
51.
Iskafiyah
Followers of Muhammad ibn-Abdallah al-Iskafi. They believe that Allah has power to oppress children and madmen but not those who have their full senses.
52.
Thamamiyah
Followers of Thamamah ibn-Ashras al-Numairi. They believe that he whom Allah does not compel to know Him, is not compelled to know and is classed with animals who are not responsible.
53.
Jahiziayh
Followers of 'Amr ibn-Bahr al-Jahiz. They believe that Allah is able to create a thing but unable to annihilate it.
54.
Shahhamiyah / Sifatiyah
Followers of abu-Yaqub al-Shahham. They everything determined is determined by two determiners, one the Creator and the other acquirer.
55.
Khaiyatiyah / Makhluqiyah
Followers of abu-al-Husain al-Khaiyat. They believe that everything non-existant is a body before it appears, like man before it is born is a body in non-existance. Also that every attribute becomes existant when it makes its appearance.
56.
Ka'biyah
Followers of abu-Qasim Abdullah ibn-Ahmad ibn-Mahmud al-Banahi known as al-Ka'bi. They believe that Allah does not see Himself nor anyone else except in the sense that He knows Himself and others.
57.
Jubbaiyah
Followers of abu-'Ali al-Jubbai. They believe that Allah obeys His servants when He fulfill their wish
58.
Bahshamiyah
Followers of abu-Hashim. They believe that one who desires to do a bad deed, though may not do it, commits infidelity and deserves punishment.
59.
Ibriyah.
They believe that Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a wise man but not a prophet.
60.
Muhkamiyah
They believe that God has no control over His creations.
61.
Qabariyya
They do not believe in the punishment of grave.
62.
Hujjatiya
They do not believe in the punishment for deeds on the grounds that because everything is determined so whatever one does s/he is not responsible for it.
63.
Fikriyya
They believe that doing Dhikr and Fikr (Remembering and thinking about Allah) is better than worship.
64.
'Aliviyah / Ajariyah
They believe that Hadhrat Ali share prophethood with Muhammad (pbuh).
65.
Tanasikhiya
They believe in the re-incarnation of soul.
66.
Raji'yah
They believe that Hadhrat Ali ibn-abi-Talib will return to this world.
67.
Ahadiyah
They believe in the Fardh (obligations) in faith but deny the sunnah.
68.
Radeediyah
They believe that this world will live forever.
69.
Satbiriyah
They do not believe in the acceptance of repentance.
70.
Lafziyah
They believe that Quran is not the word of God but only its meaning and essence is the word of God. Words of Quran are just the words of narrator.
71.
Ashariyah
The believe that Qiyas (taking a guess) is wrong and amounts to disbelief.
72.
Bada'iyah
They believe that obedience to Ameer is obligatory no matter what he commands.
I don't have time to examine them right now. I wonder if a thread already exist that discussed this topic or if we can open a new thread to do so. In any event i will examine them within the next two days inshaallah
If you can list 25 from the top of your head, then surely you can list 73 from the place that you found them.
Hello. I agree with what brother in Islam have said so far about different sects in Islam. There have been many throughout 1400 years of Islamic history. Never at one time have they existed amongst Muslims together. However i would also like to give explanation on this Hadith, as to what is being emphasized over here. We can understand this under the Light of Quran 1st..
(23:52) And, Verily, this community of yours is one single community, since I am the Sustainer of you all, remain, then, Conscious of Me!
(23:53) But they (who claim to follow you) have torn their unity wide asunder, piece by piece, each group delighting in (but) what they themselves possess (by way of tenets).
The above Verses 1st give us a Message, that in the history of mankind, every religious group who was given a revelation and a Prophet sent by God, had divisions which took place amongst them and it was this division which led them astray. But since division occurred amongst religious groups of all Prophets, so would such division take place amongst the followers of Prophet Muhammad (Saw). And so Prophet himself gave prediction of such divisions which would take place, NOT exactly the time frame is given in the hadith but ONLY that this would take place in future, we can assume it means would take place from his time onwards till before the Day of Judgment.
Most important point being mentioned in the Hadith is "The Jews have been split up in to seventy one sects, Christians in to seventy two sects, whereas my community will be split up in to seventy three sects." .... In Classical Arabic the number "seventy" often stands for "many" - just as "seven" stands for "several" or "various" - and does not necessarily denote an ACTUAL figure! Hence what Prophet (saw) meant to say was that the sects and divisions among Muslims of later days would become many, and even more numerous than those among Jews and Christians.)
Whoa..Brother Jibrael actually posted all of them. From what i know, they do not exist together in our times. They have existed in 1400 years of Muslim history. So there is no time frame. Also in the 72 posted you did not mention the 20 sub sects amongst the shias ? Would that mean 72 plus 20 = 92 ? Then wouldn't the Hadith become wrong ? So brother, the figure 71 and 72 for Jews and Christians and 73 for Muslims, is just to show that we would become even WORST in divisions then the Jews and Christians. Its not Literal
Whoa..Brother Jibrael actually posted all of them. From what i know, they do not exist together in our times.
Actually some of the sects I listed may not exist anymore...especially some of the Shi'ah subsects like the Hanafiyah or the Baqiriyah, etc.
Most of the sects that I listed are actually branches of several main groups: the Rafidhah, the Khawarij, the Murji'ah, the Qadariyyah, the Mu'tazilah, the Jahmiyyah, the Mujassimah, and the Jabariyyah.
Also in the 72 posted you did not mention the 20 sub sects amongst the shias ?
Actually you could say most of the sects I listed are subsects of the Rafidhah Shi'ah, such as the Hanafiyah, the Ithna Ashariyah, the Baqiriyah, the Isma'iliyah, the Zaidiyah, etc.
Would that mean 72 plus 20 = 92 ? Then wouldn't the Hadith become wrong ? So brother, the figure 71 and 72 for Jews and Christians and 73 for Muslims, is just to show that we would become even WORST in divisions then the Jews and Christians. Its not Literal
The Hadeeth is literal, because like I said, there are 72 main sects, but there are thousands of sects which branch off from the 72 main deviated sects.
And of course there is 1 sect which is upon the Truth and which is Ahlus Sunnah (the People of Sunnah), in this time known as Ahlul Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth)
Brother Jibrael, i still do not believe that they exist today all together, yes they might have in the past. But not today. For example the Hashashins were the extremists Ismailis, do they exist today in our times ? No. Khawarij used to exist, but not today. Even if you say they have sub branches, then that branch does not hold to the exactly same views of their original sect, like ibadi exists from khawarij, yet their views have completely changed, so that would add Ibadi plus Khawarij and then Hashashin Plus Ismailism, and then that would add up to many many more. And then the Seventy part does make sense, as being interpreted as Various and Several. But i have no arguments with you my brother, i was trying to explain Kidmancan and make him understand about the Hadith. Salaam.
Brother Jibrael, i still do not believe that they exist today all together, yes they might have in the past. But not today. For example the Hashashins were the extremists Ismailis, do they exist today in our times ? No. Khawarij used to exist, but not today. Even if you say they have sub branches, then that branch does not hold to the exactly same views of their original sect, like ibadi exists from khawarij, yet their views have completely changed, so that would add Ibadi plus Khawarij and then Hashashin Plus Ismailism, and then that would add up to many many more. And then the Seventy part does make sense, as being interpreted as Various and Several. But i have no arguments with you my brother, i was trying to explain Kidmancan and make him understand about the Hadith. Salaam.
I disagree with you about the Khawaarij. They do indeed exist today, in fact the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that they would be in every generation until when the Dajjaal comes, they will follow him.
The Khawaarij historically consisted of many groups. However, there are two kinds of Khawaarij, what I call "Paleo-Khawarij" and "Neo-Khawarij". Most of the Paleo-Khawarij don't exist anymore, except for the Ibadhis. However, as you rightly pointed out, the Ibadhis are not as extreme, but they still have remnants of Khawarij aqeeda.
As for the Neo-Khawaarij, they are the present day Takfiris, like Al-Qaida, etc., who make Takfeer against the Muslim rulers and believe it is allowed to take the blood of innocent Muslims, just like the ancient Khawaarij who rebelled against Ali رضى الله عنه in the Battle of Nahrawan.
What about Muslims who believe in secularism and reject the Sharia? Is that not a sect? Or is it in the list (sorry I may not have spotted it)?
:/
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
Ladies and Gentlemen and Children of all ages step up and witness the most amazing transformation act of the 21st century. Before your very eyes you will see 1.6 billion people turn from being peaceful people into terrorists.
Look up my sleeve nothing there, no slight of hand. Just control of the language and altering definitions.
A very simple but effective trick. We change the popular meaning of Moderate to being liberal and show that liberal means non-practicing. Immediately we get 1.6 billion people to despise being called Moderate and refusing to call themselves Moderate.
Next we only give them 2 choices they can call themselves Moderate or they can call themselves Extremists. The old forced choice trick. Of course most will then call themselves extremist.
Now this is where the clincher comes in, we use the press and promote extremist as being terrorist. Voila, with out even working up a sweat we have just changed 1.6 Billion peace loving people into terrorists.
People it looks like 1984 is here and whoever controls the media controls the thoughts.
Let us stop being forced into choices that make us look bad. Live as Muslims, Act like Muslims in all things and refuse to accept any label that puts a qualifying adjective on our names. We are Muslims we are not Moderate Muslims, we are not extremist Muslims.
Jibrael I don't think that I will have time to examine this list until this weekend. But one question: out of this list is there any group that is called "Moderate Muslims"?
Well, I think a "moderate" Muslim is just any Muslim who tries to follow the religion in a sincere and humble way... In other words, a moderate Muslim is a good Muslim.
I feel like the thing that makes someone "extreme" has more to do with their interpretation of certain aspects of the religion, and the tendency to stick to a very rigid way of seeing things...Sometimes that happens because of an agenda (and they might use the religion to get their way), and other times it happens because of arrogance or ego. I don't like using the word extreme to label Muslims, but still... I can't deny that there does exist that type that believes only his understanding is the correct one, and who leaves the example of the Prophet (pbuh) behind and becomes arrogant or self-righteous... That type of Muslim typically doesn't take well to another Muslim who holds different views, and usually ends up being consumed by his anger/ego/agenda/desire/etc...
I don't think this covers everything, or that it's entirely accurate... But I'll stick with it for now.
Actually some of the sects I listed may not exist anymore...especially some of the Shi'ah subsects like the Hanafiyah or the Baqiriyah, etc.
Most of the sects that I listed are actually branches of several main groups: the Rafidhah, the Khawarij, the Murji'ah, the Qadariyyah, the Mu'tazilah, the Jahmiyyah, the Mujassimah, and the Jabariyyah.
Actually you could say most of the sects I listed are subsects of the Rafidhah Shi'ah, such as the Hanafiyah, the Ithna Ashariyah, the Baqiriyah, the Isma'iliyah, the Zaidiyah, etc.
Can you please provide the confirmed list of 73 sects so that I can examine it?
I agree with the idea that we should take the prophet as an example, but that does not mean that all hadith are true.
You believe that Islam will be broken into 73 sects. I found the website that contains your list and the author of your list did not sufficiently answer the most important question concerning the legitimacy of his/your list.
What is the definition of a sect?
This question is vital for two reasons. The first reason is because, as you touched on in a previous post, if a sect is simply a group of muslims that have a particular set of beliefs that differ from another group, than there are millions of sects of Islam. Because if you visit any large city in the United states you will find multiple masjids that have many different practices. So again if you define sects as groups of muslims that differ in their beliefs than of course there are millions of sects, not 73, and the hadith is false.
If you define a sect in a different way, then I need to know how you define a sect, on what authority do you define it this way, and then I can determine if the sects on your list fit into the authentic definition of a sect. But of course the hadith that you quoted did not provide what the definition of a sect is.
The second reason why the definition of a sect is important is because Allah does not divide Islam into sects in the quran. On the contrary the quran states
"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the last day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear nor shall they
grieve. Yusuf Ali Quran 2: 62
And the quran also states
"whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear nor shall they grieve." Yusuf Ali Quran 2:111.
And of course we know that you will not find any verse in the quran that will contradict these verses.
The quran also states
If Allah had so willed He would have made you a single people but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.
The hadith about 72 false sects could also refer to or include Buddhism, Hinduism, as well as all other false religions (committing shirk). I believe as Muslims we are wasting valuable time we should be spending to do righteous deeds for the benefit our soul.
And as always; God knows best... Allahu Alem.
Last edited by Argamemnon; 02-14-2011 at 08:31 AM.
but within ahl us sunnah ("firqa-i-najiya") there can be very differing views about many topics. So it makes one wonder which is the real ahl us sunnah. I've read a few books (different authors who claim to belong to ahl us sunnah) who were expressing rather differing (conflicting) views regarding certain important issues. Is there really one ahl us sunnah sect (in reality) ?
Last edited by Argamemnon; 02-14-2011 at 03:54 PM.
but within ahl us sunnah ("firqa-i-najiya") there can be very differing views about many topics. So it makes one wonder which is the real ahl us sunnah. I've read a few books (different authors who claim to belong to ahl us sunnah) who were expressing rather differing (conflicting) views regarding certain important issues. Is there really one ahl us sunnah sect (in reality) ?
Asalam alykum.
Its not about who CLAIM to follow the way of Prophet Muhammad and his companions, rather its about those who actually DO follow their way and example.
Those who do that are ahlus sunnah (the people of the Qur'an and Sunnah).
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