Why the violence?

format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon

"Not endorsed by Islam". Yet Muslims claim that it is. Who should I believe?

After that movie was released, Australian Muslims rioted and destroyed property. They are 10,000 miles from California! The Australian govt condemned the movie! They were wearing muslim clothes, muslim beards and carried flags with quotes from the Koran.

They carried signs "Behead those who insult Islam".

They forgot the sign "Not endorsed by Islam".

If you study Islam yourself rather than rely on what is written on placards, you will know who to believe.

The Prophet Muhammad: a mercy for all creation

Allaah's Messenger was the kindest of men in the same way as he excelled all others in courage and valour. Being extremely kind-hearted, his eyes brimmed with tears at the slightest sign of inhumanity. A Companion, Shaddaad bin 'Aws reported the Apostle as saying: "Allaah has commanded you to show kindness to everyone, so if you have to kill, kill in a good manner, and if you slaughter an animal, slaughter it gently. If anyone of you has to slay an animal, he should sharpen the blade first and treat the animal well." Ibn 'Abbaas relates that a man threw a goat on its side and then started sharpening his knife. When the Prophet saw him he said: "Do you want to kill it twice? Why did you not sharpen the knife before throwing it on the ground?"


A Mercy for the Believers

The Messenger’s compassion towards the believers was of the utmost degree. The Quran describes his compassion in the following verse, which means: “There has certainly come to you a Messenger from among yourselves. Grievous to him is what you suffer; [he is] concerned over you [i.e., your guidance] and to the believers is kind and merciful.” [Quran: 9:128]

Sa‘d bin ‘Ubaadah once became ill, so Allaah’s Messenger visited him in his house. On seeing his faithful Companion in a pitiful state, he was moved to tears. Then, he said: “Allaah does not punish because of tears, nor because of grief, but he punishes because of this."- and he pointed to his tongue. [Al-Bukhaari]


A Mercy Towards his Enemies

The prisoners of war taken captive at the battle of Badr were amongst his bitterest enemies. Nevertheless, he made sure that they were given the best of treatment. Among them was Suhayl bin 'Amr who was a fiery speaker and was denouncing the Prophet . 'Umar one the Prophet’s closest companions, suggested that two of his lower teeth be pulled out so that he might not be so vile in his speeches. The Prophet replied: “Were I to do this, Allaah would disfigure me on the Day of Judgement, despite the fact that I am His messenger.”

In Makkah, his people inflicted him with every kind of suffering, eventually forcing him to emigrate to Madeenah, and then waged war on him for five years. However, when he conquered Makkah without bloodshed in the twenty-first year of his Prophethood, he asked the Makkan unbelievers who were awaiting his decision about them: “How do you expect me to treat you?” They responded unanimously: "You are a noble one, the son of a noble one." He announced to them his decision:

“You may go free! No reproach this day shall be on you; may God forgive you.”


A Mercy for Women

Prophet Muhammad was also very kind and affectionate towards women. Women were very badly treated in those times. The Noble Prophet gave them honour and dignity at par with men in the community. 'Umar reported: "We did not have much regard for women while we were at Makkah, but they were better treated in Madeenah. Allaah's Messenger established women's rights through his sayings and commandments, which improved their position and status."


A Mercy for Children

Allaah’s Messenger was particularly compassionate towards children. When he saw a child crying, he sat beside him or her and shared his or her feelings. He felt the pain of a mother for her child more than the mother herself. Once he said: “I stand in prayer and wish to prolong it. However, I hear the cry of a child and cut the prayer short for the anxiety which the mother is feeling.” [Al-Bukhaari]

He would take children in his arms and embrace them. He was once hugging his beloved grandsons, Hasan and Husayn, when Aqrah bin Haabis told him, ‘I have got ten children. So far, I have not kissed any of them.’ Allaah’s Messenger responded: “The one with no pity for others is not pitied.” [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]

According to another version, he said: “ What can I do for you if Allaah has removed from you the feeling of compassion?” [At-Tirmithi]


A Mercy for Slaves

The Prophet strongly enjoined the duty of kind and generous treatment upon slaves, servants and labourers engaged in manual work. Jaabir related the Apostle of Allaah as saying: "Feed them with the food which you eat, clothe them with such clothing as you wear, and do not cause trouble to Allaah's creatures." The Apostle is further stated to have said: "Those whom Allaah has made your dependents are your brothers, servants and helpmates. Anybody whose brother has been made subservient to him ought to feed him with the food he eats and clothe him with the clothes he wears; command him not to do that which he is unable to do and if it becomes necessary to do so then he should help him in doing the job."


A Mercy for Animals

His compassion encompassed not only human beings, but also animals.

The Prophet forbade his companions to keep the unintelligent creatures hungry or thirsty, to disturb or to overburden them. He commended that kindness and putting them at ease were meritorious acts tending to bring man nearer to Allaah. Abu Hurayrah reports the Prophet as saying: "A traveller who was thirsty saw a well in the way. He got inside the well and when he came out he saw a dog licking mud due to thirst. The man realised that the dog was as thirsty as him, so he got into the well again, filled his leather sock with water and carried it out holding it with his teeth. Thus, he quenched the thirst of the dog. Allaah was pleased with this act of kindness and pardoned his sins." The Companions asked: "O Messenger of Allaah, is there recompense in the matter of beasts and wild animals also?" The Prophet replied: "There is recompense in regard to every creature that has a living heart."

'Abdullaah bin 'Umar related that the Prophet said: "A woman was cast away to hell only because she had withheld food and water from her cat and refused to set it free so that the cat might satisfy its hunger by eating worms and insects.”

Once on return from a military campaign, a few Companions took away the chicks of a bird from their nest to stroke them. The mother bird came back and when it could not find its chicks in the nest, it began to fly around screeching. When informed of the matter, Allaah’s Messenger became angry and ordered the chicks to be put back in the nest. [Abu Daawood]


Conclusion

The love and compassion of Allaah’s Messenger for all kinds of creatures was not of the kind claimed by today’s ‘humanists’. He was sincere and balanced in his love and compassion. He was more compassionate than any other person. He was a Prophet raised by Allaah, the Creator and Sustainer of all beings, for the guidance and happiness of conscious beings - mankind and jinn - and the harmony of existence. Therefore, he lived not for himself but for others; he is a mercy for all the worlds.

“Indeed, in this [Quran] is notification for a worshipping people. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” [Quran: 21:106-107]

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...cles&id=134199

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah

The True Love & Mercy of the Prophet (Pbuh) for Mankind


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

The love and mercy of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to the believers is great as the Qur'an testifies when it says:

"(The Prophet) is greatly grieved at your loss and extremely anxious for your good. For the believers he is full of kindness and rahmah (mercy, love)." (9:128)

The Prophet's (Peace be upon him) love was not limited just to the believers for he loved all of Allah’s creations. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"We have not sent you (O Prophet) but as rahmah (Mercy) to all the worlds." (21:107)

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "The Prophet (Peace be upon him) was asked to curse the disbelievers. He said, "I have not been sent to curse people but as a mercy to all mankind." (Muslim)

The Noble Qur’an speaks of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) as a great favour to the believers:

"Indeed, Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad (saws)) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah (the wisdom and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saws) - i.e. his legal ways, statements, actions, etc.), while before that they had been in manifest error."
(Qur'an Al-'Imran: 164)

These verses show that his distinctive quality was that he was a blessing incarnate in word and deed and that he truly was a mercy for mankind and a great favour upon the believers.

How the Prophet (Peace be upon him) Suffered for Mankind

The blessed Prophet's (Peace be upon him) love for mankind is clear from the untold sufferings he endured at the hands of his opponents whom he forgave with such ease after his victory.

When the blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) started inviting people towards Islam almost all the people of Makkah opposed him even though they had known him for all of his life as a man of exceptional integrity and intelligence and a man who is the most trustworthy and reliable as he was known as “Muhammad the reliable”.

They used to verbally attack him, jeer at him and insult him. Then they started to physically hurt him. They would lay thorns in his way and throw garbage and dust on him. On one occasion he returned with dust still on his head. One of his daughters rose, with tears in her eyes, to wipe it off. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) was more hurt to see tears in his daughter's eyes than the terrible treatment he himself received from his fellow citizens. He comforted her, saying: "My daughter, weep not, for verily the Lord will be your father's helper."

The blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) was persecuted on many occasions at the hands of his opponents and his companions constantly asked him to curse these people who tried to do the Prophet (Peace be upon him) harm but the blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) had so much mercy and did not want revenge but just wanted the whole of mankind to accept the truth and come away from the darkness and into the light of Islam! He replied to pressure on him to curse them by saying, “I have not been sent to lay a curse upon men but to be a blessing to them.” Even though our blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) and his companions continued to get persecuted and treated cruelly and unjustly the Prophet (Peace be upon him) continued to ask Allah to forgive them and he cried so much for them because he wanted the whole of mankind to be on the straight path. (Confirmed in Hadith of Sahih Muslim)

The blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) out of his love and concern for mankind went to Ta’if which was situated about sixty miles east of Makkah, it was the nearest city of importance. Accompanied only by Zayd (May Allah have mercy on him), the Prophet (Peace be upon him) made a tiring journey through barren rocky defiles. He spent ten days in Ta’if preaching to the tribal chiefs as well as common people. It was a city full of disbelievers and idol worshippers who were very much set in their ways and our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) out of concern for them saw this as a great opportunity to try and call as many of them as possible to Islam so that they could be saved from the fire of Hell.

Our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) called on the people to forsake their idols and false Gods and called them to the oneness of Allah, but the people were very set in their ways and ignored the Prophet’s (Peace be upon him) calls and did not want to listen to him. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) tried his best but the people just were not listening and were very ignorant indeed.

When the Prophet (Peace be upon him) made his way back a group of youngsters in the area started pelting stones and rocks at our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him), They continued until nightfall and our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) bled profusely until the blood made his feet stick to his shoes. Even though our beloved Prophet bled he and was in pain he continued to say, “O my Lord, guide my people along the true path, as they are ignorant of the truth.” He had so much love for the disbelievers imagine how much love he had for the believers. Zaid(May Allah have mercy on him),tried to shelter and protect the Prophet (Peace be upon him) from the rocks that were thrown and consequantly received wounds to his head which bled profusely.

The whole Arsh of Allah (Throne of Allah) shook because the most beloved to Allah was in pain and constantly crying. Our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) wasn’t crying because of the physical pain of the attack but because of the concern he had for the disbelievers.

Allah ordered the angel Jibra’il to go and ask the Prophet (Peace be upon him) what he needed and whatever his beloved asked for do it straight away without hesitation. So the Angel Jibra’il along with the angel of the mountains that surrounded the city came swiftly to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and asked him what they can do for him.

The angel of the Mountains said to the Prophet (Peace be upon him): "Give me the command and I shall crush the city between the mountains and the people will perish along with the city”. The blessed Prophet said (Peace be upon him) “It is not my duty to take revenge or to destroy the disbelievers but to call them to the right path, maybe their children will accept Islam one day" and he prayed that they did.

The city of Ta’if today has not got a single disbeliever. This is due to the mercy and the love the Prophet (Peace be upon him) had for the disbelievers. He prayed that if the disbelievers would not accept Islam then at least their children would accept Islam and the Prophets (Peace be upon him) prayers were answered. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) could of taken revenge but he was merciful to them and showed concern and love for them even though they showed hatred and enmity towards him.

These and many other things did the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) suffer over a period of many years. He did not have to. Just before he started his mission to invite the disbelievers to Islam he had everything that a man would want: health, a prosperous business, a loving wife, fine children, faithful relatives and friends as well as the trust and respect of his fellow citizens. If he wanted he could have led as comfortable a life as any in Makkah. But he chose the road of suffering and hardship. He did so for the love of the very people who ignorantly persecuted him and for the welfare of the whole of mankind.

The Mercy and Love the Prophet (Pbuh) had for Mankind

Another example of the mercy of our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) is in this hadith:

Anas ibn Malik reports: “Allah’s messenger (Peace be upon him) was sitting in the Masjid with some of his companions when a Bedouin urinated inside the mosque. The Prophet’s (Peace be upon him) companions said: ‘What is going on?’ ‘What are you doing?’ The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said to them: ‘Do not interrupt him.’ He called the man and said to him: ‘These masjids are not the place where one can throw any dirt, urine or stools. They are meant for reciting the Qur’an, glorifying Allah and prayer.’ He then called for a bucket of water and he poured it over the urine.” (Bukhari, Muslim).

Our Prophet (Peace be upon him) was the best of character. In this example we had a complete stranger, doing the worst of actions in the best of places which is the house of Allah. Yet, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) due to his mercy, kindness and wisdom was patient, and treated him in the best of ways.

Our beloved Prophets (Peace be upon him) heart was filled with intense love for all of mankind irrespective of caste, creed, or colour. Once he advised his Companions to regard all people as their brothers and sisters. He added, “You are all Adam’s offspring and Adam was born of clay.” He wanted all of his Ummah to regard themselves as “One” body and if one part of the body was in pain then he wanted all of us to feel the pain and to help out our brothers and sisters where ever they maybe.

The blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) taught us that, “A true believer is the one with whom others feel secure. One who returns love for hatred.” The blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) wanted us not only to treat people well only if they treat us well but that we be good to those who are not good to us and to not to ever do wrong to those who harm us. He wanted us to show mercy and forgiveness and not to be of those who take revenge.

According to another hadith, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) once said, “By Allah, he is not a believer, by Allah, he is not a believer, by Allah, he is not a believer, with whom his neighbours are not secure.” This Hadith clearly shows how much he loved and cared for all human beings. One of the lessons he taught was that we should live among others like flowers, and not like thorns, without giving trouble to anybody.

The blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) never beat a servant, or a woman, or anyone else. He did, of course, fight for what was right. Yet, when he had to choose between two alternatives, he would take the easier course, provided it involved no sin. No one was more careful to avoid sin than he was. He never sought revenge on his own behalf for any wrong done to him personally. Only if Allah’s commandments had been broken would he mete out retribution for the sake of Allah. It was such conduct which gained the Prophet (Peace be upon him) universal respect even till this day.

Once the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) stood up. One of his Companions said “this funeral is that of a Jew”. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?”

All these examples show the great love and mercy the blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) had for mankind...

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

The Prophet pbuh NEVER said that people should be killed for insulting him. On the contrary, he taught his followers forgiveness.

The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

You will not find a single saying of the Prophet pbuh where he says, 'Kill the person who insults me'.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

If we actually examine the textual evidence, we find that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the most forgiving to those who insulted and abused him and the most gentle of all people.

First, let us note what the Qur'an teaches:

25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

41:34 The good deed and the evil deed cannot be not equal. Return an evil deed with one that is good. Then he between whom and thyself was mutual enmity shall become as though he were an intimate friend.


Next, Shaykh Muhammad Al-Khudayri cites some important ahadith on the attitude of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh:

A Jewish man once greeted the Prophet (peace be upon him) by saying: “Death be upon you.” He used the Arabic word ‘sâm’, meaning ‘death’, in a parody of the Islamic greeting for peace which is the word ‘salâm’.

Though the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew exactly what the man had said, he paid it no heed and gently replied: “And upon you.” He did so without repeating the misused word “sâm” and behaved as if he had not noticed it.

However, A?ishah, who had also heard what the man really said, immediately retorted: “And death be upon you and a curse as well!”

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Take it easy, A?’ishah. Allah loves kindness in everything.” In another narration of the story, it is related that he also said: “Beware of coarseness and indecency.”

A?ishah complained to the Prophet (peace be upon him) saying: “Didn’t you hear what they said?”

The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Did you not hear my reply? I responded to their offensive supplication. My supplication will be answered by Allah while their supplication against me will not be answered.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

Some of the Companions once asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) to pray to Allah to invoke His curse upon the pagans. He replied: “I was not sent to curse people but as a blessing. [Sahîh Muslim]

Also, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “It is not fitting for a sincere lover of truth to invoke curses.” [Sahîh Muslim]

And he said: “A believer should not invoke curses.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî with authentic line of transmission]

I think I answered this previously as well when I said, The conclusion was that Prophet Muhammad pbuh never allowed anyone to be killed for personal insults - he was the most forgiving to the extent that he forgave one who tried to poison him, and he forgave those who persecuted his followers and drove him out of his home..

Those whom he fought were the ones who strove to harm and destroy the Muslim community:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...sinations.html
So this notion of a violent man who called for others to be killed simply because they insulted him is in complete conflict with the character of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Having said that, those who agree to live as citizens of an Islamic state have agreed to live in peace with their Muslim neighbors and not to insult or attack the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, for example. There is no doubt that Islam prohibits this and someone who opposes the law in this regard is to be punished.

So there is an important distinction here. On one hand there is the Prophet's personal moral attitude in dealing with those who attacked him, and on the other hand there is the issue of citizens of a state following the laws of the state and agreeing to such prohibitions. The former is an issue of moral character while the latter is an issue of state governance.

Peace.

format_quote Originally Posted by Bornagain

where, when and what kind of violence Christians commit?

pls. allow me in case you missed it the first time I posted it:

Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)
Ancient Pagans

• As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
• Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
• Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
• Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
• Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
• Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
  According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
• In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
• In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
• The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
  [DO19-25]

Mission

• Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
• Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
• Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
• 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
• 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
  Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Crusades (1095-1291)

• First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
• Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
• 9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
• Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
• after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
  Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
• Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
• Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
  (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
• The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
• Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
• Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
• Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
• Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224] Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

Heretics

• Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
• Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
• Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
  The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely sucked) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
  Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
• Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
• subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
• After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
• Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
• Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
• Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
• John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
• University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
• Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Witches

• from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
• in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
• incomplete list of documented cases:
  The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

Religious Wars

• 15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
• 1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
• 1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
• 1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
• 17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]
• 17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
• 17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Jews

• Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.
• In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]
• 17. Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]
• The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]
• First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]
• Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]
• Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]
• Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]
• 1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]
• 1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]
• 1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]
• 1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]
• 1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]
• 1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]
• 1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.
• 1492: In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]
• 1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. [DO43]

(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.

Native Peoples

• Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.
• Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]
  While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]
• On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:

I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]

• Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]
• In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]
• On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]
• The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
• As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]
• The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]
• What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
  "The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
  Or, on another occasion:
  "The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]
• The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]
• "And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitln [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]
• Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
• "When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [SH95]

Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of Amerikkka.

• Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]
• In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
  "Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]
• On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.
• When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.
  Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.
  The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]
• So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].
• Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:
  "Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)
• Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]
• Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
  In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]
• The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]
• Other tribes were to follow the same path.
• Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"
  "Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]
• Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]
• In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
• In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]
• To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.
• All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.
• A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
• In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.

More Glorious events in US history

• Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]
• Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
  From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]
  More gory details.
• By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'." [SH244]

20th Century Church Atrocities

• Catholic extermination camps
  Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
  
  In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
• Catholic terror in Vietnam
  In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]
  
  Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.
  
  The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:
• 
  
  • "Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

• Rwanda Massacres
  In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.
Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.
In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]

As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never come to an end....
References:

[DA] K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. [DO] K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987. [EC] P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985. [EJ] S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977. [LI] H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961. [MM] M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People. [MV] A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992. [NC] J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992. [S2] Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00. [SH] D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992. [SP] German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996. [TA] A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676. [TG] F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980. [WW] H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.
(This is in german and what is worse, it is out of print. But it is the best I ever read about crusades and includes a full list of original medieval Christian chroniclers' writings). [WV] Estimates on the number of executed witches:

• N.Cohn, Europe's Inner Demons: An Enquiry Inspired by the Great Witch Hunt, Frogmore 1976, 253.
• R.H.Robbins, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, New York 1959, 180.
• J.B.Russell, Witchcraft in the Middle Ages, Ithaca/NY 1972, 39.
• H.Zwetsloot, Friedrich Spee und die Hexenprozesse, Trier 1954, 56

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

hulk i cant thank you enough for commenting on my post rather than deleting it, seriously.
But im not trying to be an expert im just trying to point out i believe all religions are equally violent, i was about to reply to the man who asked me to point out any christian violence apart from the crusades which would have been easy enough for me but then people typed essays for me about it before i even got the chance.

can you get occasionally violent? If someone assaulted you would you fight back or you'd be all ah I needed that, here's a kidney?
I can't think why anyone would delete your posts unless they broke one or ten forum rules. Perhaps posing oneself as a scholar when one is an impostor is one such rule you've broken?

best,

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

The copy and paste thing on this NEVER EVER WORKS FOR ME ok this is what my post was meant to look like

That's amusing given all your posts are studded with them!
All one needs to do is grab one of your quotes to see exactly what sort of sites it generates!

you're such a hoot!

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

well my argument to begin with against myself being a muslim is that i wouldnt believe gods best attempt to communicate with me is by a 1500 year old book written in a language i dont understand translated by men who i have no reason to trust so im glad you agree with me on that point, it seems that in your eyes the translations are untrustworthy.

Well what are your beliefs mate? that a sprinkle of sun and water helped a rock which formed ex nihilio sprout wings because darwin wrote it down? like I said you're a hoot

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

But to make my point i dont really have to quote the quran to prove the violence of islam i just need to look at historical evidence, and i dont even have to do that in this post because the thread is about "why does violence surround islam" so the violence is already assumed to be there by the way the question is asked, and i repeat myself when i say i believe all religion is violent and its shown in the history books.

Islam is a noun violent is an adjective, your premise is faulty. Muslims can get violent yes, what's your point?

best,

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

I take it you mean this sarcastically or something, but i dont get how else i could argue my point about islam other than use quotes from a translated quran online, i dont own a quran and i cant speak arabic.

Which begs the question of your scholarship and prestigious know how doesn't it? you don't speak Arabic, and you don't have a copy of the Quran, but you've managed to miraculously populate, cite and opine on various verses?

It's really stupid to believe that any ideology or religion that could survive for centuries is based on violence. Violence cannot maintain any civilisation or ideology because power and highness is not permanent and moves from one nation to another. If islam is only based on violence and swords, than it would be more likely perished now, when muslim countries are the weakest in the world.

format_quote Originally Posted by paulpablo

i took quotes from the quran and said look these are the more violent parts of the quran.

You just told us you haven't got a Quran, so where are you quoting 'violent parts from'? and what sense is it to come and write with assertion when you clearly should have at least some sort of platform or baseline.
You haven't queries, and you haven't scholarship so what exactly do you expect? I mean aside from trolling us which is obvious and I am having fun myself with it because folks like you are a dime a dozen!

Usually I take the time to respond in my own words but I have learned over time that people don't usually want to hear the truth rather they want to see someone agreeing with their statement regardless of whether or not it is based on knowledge or ignorance. Well, regarding the first verse it is actually referring to a specific battle with a group that broke a treaty with the muslims. If muslims were to have taken the verses to mean what you are trying to present it to mean then there would be no non-muslims surviving under a muslim governed land.

On stealing, well in a sharia based society there would be zakat, fard kifaya, etc. Many things involved which contributes to aiding people who are less fortunate, and thus would have no valid reason to steal in the first place. It would also not be a consumerist culture like you see in many places these days.

Well anyway I'll leave these links here for the benefit of anyone who wants to read proper answers.

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...ID=612&CATE=10(wife)

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...D=1895&CATE=39(stealing)

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...D=12581&CATE=1(witchcraft)