Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only) (OP)
Hello.
I was born in a muslim family,they have a strong belief in God.I once had a strong belief,used to pray and such. I don't know why i had a strong belief,maybe i was a kid and believed everything easily,but i once saw 'Allah' written in the sky in clouds form. I still think to this day i was just imagining things,but i know that's the not true because apparently i was out that time,and many people were like taking pictures of it. Then i stopped praying,Mainly because I'm a lazy person.( was like 10 around that time.)2 or 3 years ago i started thinking 'what if' there's no God. I don't really know why i started thinking like that,but just so it happen. As a year passed by,then i questioned that if the muslims are indeed wrong? Maybe there's no God at all? What if the religions are just a fairy tale made by people? What if there's no heaven or hell? What if there's no afterlife and once you die,it's the end of everything.It is said that God is nice,but explain the suffering in this world like murder and rape. I know some people are going to say this life is a test. But my point is does God enjoy these things? If he was kind He wouldn't let have let these things happen now would He?During this time,i was also in the phase of depression. Last year later had a panic attack while masturbating and my anxiety started since then. Some of that anxiety is about if Islam is true or not,also some other things. Which made me questioned more about my religion. So i guess I'm a Atheist/Agnostic at the moment. I would wish to believe there's a God and an afterlife but it's hard to believe so. That's enough of the back story about me.
Now my problems with Islam which i would like to discuss.
First thing first,How do you Muslims know that your religion is the correct one? They are many religions out there,and they think they are right and such. Some Muslims are going to say that Islam is the correct one and Quran is a miracle. Allah send signs,the scientific evidence and etc. Anyone would research their religion and find that their religion is correct. According to what i read on the internet,some atheists are saying that these scientific evidence was long discovered before islam by the greeks.
It's unfair for non-muslims to be born in a non-muslim family. I already know some people are going to say that Allah sends them signs about Quran in some way. But the fact ismsome are going to ignore it as they are already brainwashed from their family that their current religion is correct. Why would they even give a chance to islam when they are already brainwashed? Or some people might not even heard about Quran in their entire life. One of the points why i think Quran is man-made.( No offence to you muslims.)
Even believing in Angels and the devils is harder. Devil whispers in our ears to make us do bad deeds? Really?
Secondly, the Adam and Eve story. So the world was created because Adam ate the forbidden apple.......Seriously? No matter how you look at it,it sounds like a some fairy tale story similar to Santa Claus or unocrns,of course to us non-believers...Some people are going to bring up the arguement that where did we humans come from? To Muslims it's Adam and Eve. But as my counter-arguement,one word 'Evolution'. Atleast that's what atheists believe. Even the apes and humans DNA are 98% the same. Science has proven that we can't have come from Adam and Eve. A while ago i even read an article of old skeletons skull structure being the same as apes. Don't tell me it's false or i will facepalm myself so hard my nose breaks. Even some scientists believe that's there's a 50% chance there's no God,if you research into the creation of universe,there's a chance that world was made by a mere coincidence.
Thirdly,the concept of hell. This one is disturbing me alot. So half of the population was made to be roasted in hell? Eternal hell for not being a Muslim? Then maybe God should have us more proofs if He truly loved us,that is if He exists. According to some comments i read here,It's offensive to God for not believing him with all the clear proofs send. Well,if He was all-loving he wouldn't want people to burn in hell and that too eternally. In daily life If a person was to get burned on anywhere on the part of his body,he would be in pain. He can't survive a day without the pain. But eternal hell? A person would go insane. No normal unbeliever deserves that kind of punishment. But maybe those people who liked murdering and raping people deserve it. But normal unbelievers? No. But this contradicts the nature of God. It is said according to you Muslims,that he is the most merciful and kind. But that doesn't seem like that to me. Cause if he was he wouldn't make half of the population JUST to burn in hell. And Muslims are not in majority in the world.
A square circle is impossible because it contradicts it's very nature. A square has four sides,a circle has infinite. God is impossible because He contradicts His very nature. God is described as fair and just,but creates infinite punishment for finite sins. This is a pretty and vengeful God. God is described as infinitely loving,but he allows millionns of children to starve every day. He has the power to stop it,but He does nothing. Again life is a test? Really? So this all is a game to Him and watch us suffer as His entertainment?
Another question,if there's an atheist who died at the age of 17.(My friend is at her dying bed)Would she burn in hell? She could have reverted to Islam.
I listened to many Dr. Zakir Naik lectures and some part of me get convinced. But after few days my mind returns to the atheist/agnostic mind set.
Another question, after this world ends,another world would emerge,and process will continue with new people....this process will keep on repeating...this doesn't make sense.
I said it before and i will say it again, I wish to believe there's a God but i find it hard to believe. But I'm hoping someone can convince me and show me the truth.
Will update thread if anything new comes to my mind.
Thanks.
Person may need to seek belief years. Only advice is to be patient. How long is quite personal. To me find islam it took only 7 years. To someone else it may takes a week, to some other lifetime.
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Person may need to seek belief years. Only advice is to be patient. How long is quite personal. To me find islam it took only 7 years. To someone else it may takes a week, to some other lifetime.
If you don't mind me asking,what was your religion before Islam?
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Do we live in the same planet at all?
No.I live in a different planet. I get answers from some people,like just to have Faith in God and tell me not to question my religion. And when i do I'm apparently a 'fool' to them.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
No.I live in a different planet. I get answers from some people,like just to have Faith in God and tell me not to question my religion. And when i do I'm apparently a 'fool' to them.
I haven´t never felt to be fool when asking questions. Feel like this might be just in your own mind. Try to get rid of kind of feeling.
It may takes years but be patient.
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
I believe everything is in order,and the world has a perfect system. And they must be a creator governing it.
Some of the reason why i think they should be a God is because of the world's perfect design. The materials in this world such as fruits and vegetables which helps to fight diseases. Even the cancer curing fruit is there. Obviously this can't have happen on the chance. It can't be after coincidence and again coincidence and so on. Plus the the Earth has a special layer which protect us from harmful sun rays. That's why I'm eager to find the truth.But then again my other doubts is confusing me mentally.
God is beyond our comprehension and so is the universe and many sciences still undreamed of. Why worry about it? If God created us He can uncreate us, we are helpless in the cosmos. Maybe too much knowledge is a bad thing. The truth is beyond our comprehension even if we were given the knowledge it would be like reading out War and Peace to a catfish.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
so you have a problem with the deeper part of something you reject?
its like me caring about trinity when indont accept jesus as the son of god.
why bother?
*Facepalm*
Like i said i have the problems with the complex which is not making me believe the basics. Until i don't get rid of the doubts then it's difficult for me to believe in the basics.But i have no problems with the basics though.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
*Facepalm*
Like i said i have the problems with the complex which is not making me believe the basics. Until i don't get rid of the doubts then it's difficult for me to believe in the basics.But i have no problems with the basics though.
the complex will only make sense after the basics have been accepted
and we are not supposed to know everything as we know our knowledge and understanding is limited. if we understand something it will be because ALlah wished some good for us.
a vety popular hadith is "when Allah wishes good for someone he grants them understanding of the religion". this comes ith deep contemplation and remembrance of Allah.
i hinestly strongly feel that anyone who accepts Allah and his Messenger should become a muslim and ask Allah for the answers in the correct submissive manner. thats how a man can remove all doubt.
Isnt it amazing have u ever stopped n thought y reverts get all happy after learning abt Islam.
I believe there's a God because of things that he's done for me I prayed for something once I wanted it so badly n subhanAllah I forgot abt it and after 3 yar I got the thing I wanted n I got it the way I prayed for it does that make sense Lol
U just need to clear ur mind a bit
If u keep asking questions you'll end up no where trust me.
Its amazing how u tell us u saw Allah's name in the cloud have u tmever thought abt it mayb Allah wanted to tell you and only u that He's there for u. I mean I've always wanted to see sumfin like that but I never have.
U have no idea how lucky u are you have no idea how much He loves you.
Asking ppl questions won't help ask yourself ask Allah to open ur heart I would suggest u start reading the Quran you'll find ur answers there.
You know what If an atheist goes out to the see n suddenly if something happens n there's a storm n everythings dark n no ones there to help that atheist calls for a God to help too I don't remember the name of the brother buh he once told his story that is how he reverted.Deep down everyone knows there is a God they're just too scared to accept that.
I'll pray for u InshaAllah
N hey everythings gng to b ok I just know ur gng to find what ur looking for InshaAllah.
Allah made everyone different thats what makes them special,so no matter what ppl say just remember you're SPECIAL!! "You are with the one you love"
Nem0
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
What made you decide to revert to Islam?
I told this before: I got very personal invitation from Allah to seek information about islam and after that to become muslim.
Ok ok it took 7 years but at the last I said shahada when I had learned enough to understand. After few days it comes 18 years when I returned to islam.
Am I an adult then?
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
Why would God punish his creation for eternity if He loves them? For defying the Lord is great offensive in the view of Allah,but eternal suffering is too much.
Let me try to say this again, God hates, curses and declares war on some people.
Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve
Quran (4:52) - Those are they whom Allah hath cursed..
Quran (2:278-279) - O you who believe! Be afraid of Allah and give up what remains (due to you) from riba (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers. And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allah and His Messenger . . .
Thats means NO more love for those people. Just like satan who is going to hell for all eternity, because they chose to be arrogant. We don't know enough about wrongdoing to see it clearly and how it effects other things. So for people who insist that a sin is not a big sin without complete knowledge, while god who knows everything says it is a big sin, what is that if not arrogance? Then there is the question of the chain of sin.
Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah al-Bajali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever starts a good thing and is followed by others, will have his own reward and a reward equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their reward in any way. Whoever starts a bad thing and is followed by others, will bear the burden of his own sin and a burden equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their burden in any way.'" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, no. 2675. He said, This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)
People might have excepted that people who forsake god but do good are virtuous, but these people knowingly or not, propagate their ideas to others. If they have offsprings, they will educate the children away from the guidance of God naturally stored in the soul, then those offspring will continue the ideas so on and so forth. God says in the Quran that they feel they know enough.
Quran (5:104) When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger. They say: "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." what! even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance?
So for each of those directly or indirectly corrupted by this idea, the sin is copied 100%. Not to mention all the sin done by those people, because they were corrupted. That is why the sin of the disbeliever (meaning people who got the message but rejected it) is probably infinite. That might be why their punishment is eternal. Allah knows best. Then on the other side of the spectrum are people who propagate good as God teaches, for each person effected by the knowledge, each good that is intended is 100% and each good carried out is 1000%, all that is copied, that is probably why their reward is eternity in Heaven.
I am not sure why you are trying to change the direction to what you implied i meant in my post. Let me backtrack a bit. I posted,
[QUOTE=NjmYqlb;1577548]God has only given good things to us. So why is there suffering? The suffering are all man made.[\QUOTE]
Then you asked me.
[QUOTE=Gintoki;1577608]As for natural disasters, they are the anger of God right?[\QUOTE]
To which i said.
[QUOTE=NjmYqlb;1577656]Yes that is the bottom line.[\QUOTE]
I'll correct myself by agreeing with good brother's post. I don't know why God sends each and every disaster but at least some of it is because God wishes to punish a people (the anger of God). I won't go there further and thank you to Good brother for posting a good explanation
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
What's the connection with God's anger?
It is God's will for sure and maybe God's Anger as well but it is also man made. Back to the original context, God gives us good things, the bad are our (mankind's) own doing. Everything happens because God allows it, it is His will. So even for the bad things that happen because we (mankind) made it happen, at the bottom line, it is by the will of God. My point at the start of the natural disaster line of discussion was that mankind bears reponsibility
Quran (64:11) - No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah.
Quran (4:79) - Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself
Quran (42:30) - And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much
format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki
Sound's like it happen on it's own.
You don't believe the Japan earthquake has anything to do with what mankind did? Let me try explain another one. Sinkholes are appearing all over the planet. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had said that some of his ummah will be swallowed by the Earth. Why do you think this is happening and will continue to happen? Where do a lot of people get their drinking water from? What happens when you pump that much water out of the ground? What happens to the space left by all that water that has been pumped out? How long would the underground structure (now empty cavities) be able to support the people above it? Can you see how mankind is and will be responsible for the 'natural' disaster? Can you understand how all this is happening because God made the very scientific laws that explains it? And it is not only water that we are pumping out of the ground, what about Oil and Gas? When things start crumbling is it God's fault, or is it mankind's? People know this is happening and what do they do? People say, ah but we need water to drink, gas for our cars.... What happen to all the water on the surface? Who polluted it? Why was it polluted? Why can't we clean it? Why is the cost so high? Why put up with usury and fiat money? Do we really need gas for cars? Why not alternative power generation? This question chain can go on a long time so my point is a lot of things are inter-related.
Touching again the previous topic of eternal punishment, God has taught us how to balance everything but instead of doing what God has taught, most people now insist that experimenting with their own man-made ideas are best, and teaching this to others. I believe they are responsible directly or indirectly, for bringing people away from the very knowledge that can save people in this world and the next. The amount of sin they bear would be beyond comprehension.
Knowledge is good but it is not faith, just like some of the brothers and sisters here are saying. Keep seeking knowledge but also more importantly keep on praying to Allah for faith. There is a reason why there are the 'Pillars of Faith' and why they are not about just learning about God, Angels, Divine Books, God's Messengers, The resurrection and Pre-ordainment. The 'Pillars of Faith' are about believing in them.
Re: Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)
Mr Gintoki, if you have questions directly relating to your original post then I think you can post it in this thread but if it's separate then you might want to make another thread. Haven't been following the thread but it seems like a derailment has taken place.
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