This post is a continuation of a conversation from another thread (here: Can Islam be modernized? Should it be?), which I felt deserved its own place. I open this question to anyone who is willing to talk about it, as I am interested in how it may be interpreted.
As far as I know, the Qur'an instructs on how to treat oppression, but it does not appear to define oppression. In Islam, what is considered to be "oppression?"
The Qur'an appears to instruct people differently based on the different contexts of "oppression." What kind of action should be taken against those who oppress? (Based on the definition of oppression.)
When I search for various subjects which are broached in the Qur'an via the Internet, I am often skeptical of the translations. It seems very difficult to find specific information easily in this manner via English-based websites. Can anyone suggest direct verses for me from the Qur'an, particularly if these questions are obviously answered?
As far as I know, the Qur'an instructs on how to treat oppression, but it does not appear to define oppression. In Islam, what is considered to be "oppression?"
The Qur'an appears to instruct people differently based on the different contexts of "oppression." What kind of action should be taken against those who oppress? (Based on the definition of oppression.)
Thank You.
Can you please share those Verses of the Quran you came across about Oppression.
the word Zhulm i.e. oppression is something one inflicts upon himself and not only others.
The first verse I began researching was Sura 22, Verse 39.
In my studies, I have observed that the English words "oppressed" and "wrong" have both been used in various translations when translating the Arabic word "m'thloom." In English, these two words have very different meanings.
The English word "oppressed" is more similar to the Arabic word "c'mah," which is "suppression" in English. When the word "oppressed" is used in English, it conveys a meaning of being prevented from doing something which is considered to be good and right, deliberately through violence or through economic means.
In English, the word "wronged" is generally used in a lesser sense. For example, a person is "wronged" if something was stolen from them. You can be "wronged" even when it is accidental, such as someone coming around a corner and bumping into you.
"Oppression" in English generally conveys a sense of something severe, and something which alters your entire lifestyle. It is deliberate, and highly offensive.
"Wronged" in English can apply to virtually anything, and is often used when conveying general problems.
But then there's the technicality: people are being "wronged" when they are being "oppressed," no doubt. But to be simply "wronged" is almost never the same as being "oppressed" in the English context.
In the Qur'an, in 22:39, what is the Arabic word being used for the English "wronged," or in other translations, "oppressed" ?
This source translates the word "zalim" into several different English words, all of which have very different meanings depending on the context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulm
Please do keep in Mind that English cannot be compared to Arabic as the latter is a very ancient, some say even before mankind existed. Linguists agree that no language lives for more than 500 years, then it begins to change. Unlike Arabic which hasn't changed for centuries and centuries. There is no language like Arabic on Earth.
So no language can explain Arabic fully. Therefore translators in English have chosen words that best suit the meaning of the Arabic Word.
The Zhalim was explained by Adrianto is also an oppressor and also can be a wrong doer. Consider this translation:
(22:39) Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
Zulimu is also the one who was wronged and not only oppressed.
Consider this one:
(2:190) And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter.
The word Fitnah is translated as Persecution and in some translations of the same verse as Oppression. So Fitnah also has the meaning of Oppression and Zulm can also explained as Oppression.
It all depends on the language being used to explain those words but obviously the context of the Verse needs to be kept in mind.
Another Arabic term Zina which means all sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not husband and wife, irrespective of whether either of them is married to another partner or not; hence, it will be explained as "adultery" and "fornication" in the English senses of these terms.
But the translation of Fornication or Adultery would apply depending on the context, if Zinah was being used for a married man or woman or whether it was being used for unmarried.
translators in English have chosen words that best suit the meaning of the Arabic Word.
But even that which may be considered "best" in English will always fall short (perhaps utterly short) of what the Arabic is trying to convey.
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
(22:39) Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
In this verse, in English, when you replace "wronged" with "oppressed," you have two VERY different meanings being conveyed. This is not a subtle difference, either. It is a SIGNIFICANT difference for native English speakers, in virtually all contexts.
The word "fitna" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28word%29) also appears to have MANY various possible English translations. And herein lies my struggle in deciphering exactly which meaning the native Qur'an's Arabic is trying to tell me.
So, is 22:39 telling me:
1) fight those who wrong me?
2) fight those who do wrong (break Alla's law)?
3) fight those who forcibly try to enslave me, politically or economically?
But even that which may be considered "best" in English will always fall short (perhaps utterly short) of what the Arabic is trying to convey.
format_quote Originally Posted by Eshai
In this verse, in English, when you replace "wronged" with "oppressed," you have two VERY different meanings being conveyed. This is not a subtle difference, either. It is a SIGNIFICANT difference for native English speakers, in virtually all contexts.
That is why we have Tafsir's i.e. Commentaries that explain the context due to which this revelation was revealed. That is the reason why Tafsir's of the Quran were written to explain to amateur mind like myself and yourself. The best English word will be adopted to explain the meaning of that word based on the context.
Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory. http://quran.com/22
Sanction (to fight) is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory http://www.islamicboard.com/Quran.html
I've taken three different translations and all of the 3 translators have used the word 'Wronged' and NOT 'Oppressed' because it is the context which needed to be kept in mind when translating and the best word from English that explains the context would be 'Wronged'.
The context is that Muslims were given the permission to fight disbelievers for the 1st time who were going to attack them even after they had sought refuge in Madinah after emigrating from their city in Makkah. They were going to still strike them. So Allah (swt) is informing them that they could now defend themselves with weapons because they were 'Wronged' when they were persecuted for their belief and driven out of Makkah, and that they were still being wronged because now they were going to get attacked.
If the translators would use the word Oppressed may be it wouldn't have suited the context, even though Zalim does have the meaning of Oppressor.
The following is a good Tafsir you can read, please refer to them before deriving other meanings from the same word. http://www.tafheem.net/
My daily language is not English, but Bahasa Indonesia. And "zalim" is one word in Bahasa Indonesia which absorbed from Arabic without change its meaning.
Zalim means "a nature of human which someone treat the other with arbitrary". "Do zalim" means "treat the other arbitrarily". "Zalim ruler" means "a ruler who treat his people arbitrarily (oppressive)".
Is zalim means disobey Allah's law?. Only in context in Human-God relationship (habluminallah). If someone disobey Allah, it's means he treat Allah arbitrarily. However, zalim in meaning disobey Allah's law cannot be used in context of Human-Human relationship (habluminannas).
And about Qur'an 22:39. Here the official Indonesian translation. "Telah diizinkan (berperang) bagi orang-orang yang diperangi, karena sesungguhnya mereka telah dianiaya. Dan sesungguhnya Allah, benar-benar Maha Kuasa menolong mereka itu". (Has permitted (to fight) for those who fought because they have been persecuted. And verily, Allah really competent to help them).
Permission to fight is given in case which Muslims are persecuted or oppressed. In case which other people disobey Allah's law but do not persecute Muslims, the order that given to Muslims is giving da'wah.
please refer to them before deriving other meanings from the same word.
I will gladly, however, it was not I who derived these "other meanings." These other meanings are derived on the various websites which I have cited, and it simply a part of the English language.
For me, asking questions in this manner is the best way to learn. And I would not have even known about such commentaries if I hadn't asked. =)
According to this commentary (http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...verse=39&to=48), verse 22:39 is in direct reference to the Muslims being persecuted, rather than strictly a Muslim "who has been wronged" in any given sense.
You see, there are many English speakers who would read this translation of the Qur'an, and actually believe that Allah is instructing Muslims to fight people who simply wrong them (in any context). This is part of what is perpetuating the idea that Islam is evil. Thank you all for your input in helping to clarify the context of this verse, however, it still troubles me that these words have been interchangeably translated when the English meanings are very different. And I have no doubt that this is something that will continue to misguide people.
I will gladly, however, it was not I who derived these "other meanings." These other meanings are derived on the various websites which I have cited, and it simply a part of the English language.
The websites you posted had just translated the meaning of Zalim and had not given the context, so most likely a list of different meanings will show. But you also posted the following list of Zalim meanings in the following link:
These list of Verses carrying the word Zalim also should be looked at based on the context in which they were revealed and whether they are being addressed to a group of Believers or a Single Believer. So I meant to say that you were getting different meanings from these different websites and putting it on Verse 22:39 to see which applies best, which I pointed to you was incorrect.
format_quote Originally Posted by Eshai
You see, there are many English speakers who would read this translation of the Qur'an, and actually believe that Allah is instructing Muslims to fight people who simply wrong them (in any context). This is part of what is perpetuating the idea that Islam is evil.
Yes this is possible based on the way these verses are being presented by those who show it to English Speakers. If it is anti Islamic media, then most likely they would present the Verse incorrectly and wouldn't even bring an Islamic Scholar online to explain it, then obviously people would think negative.
But independent mind who would approach these Verses would definitely do some search like your doing which is good.
format_quote Originally Posted by Eshai
it still troubles me that these words have been interchangeably translated when the English meanings are very different. And I have no doubt that this is something that will continue to misguide people.
I appreciate your concern, but it is our belief that The One who put this revelation on Earth to Guide mankind and will protect it till the end of the world, will guide those who truly will and are seeking to be guided, He will make their path easy no matter how much crooked others try to make. Look at yourself, just before today you didn't know about commentaries and context and now you know. InshA'Allah you'll learn more.
(14:1) Alif. Lam. Ra'. This is a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth mankind from every kind of darkness into light, and direct them, with the leave of their Lord, to the Way of the Mighty, the Innately Praiseworthy.
I think simply put oppression is denying a thing it's rights, which is related to injustice.
In secular democratic societies, if someone believes that he has been wronged, a trial by the court of the land or a jury of his peers will determine the guilt or innocence and award just compensation.
Is this the same process in Islam lands, or is the wronged party, according to the Qur'an, justified in punishing whoever he feels has wronged him?
In secular democratic societies, if someone believes that he has been wronged, a trial by the court of the land or a jury of his peers will determine the guilt or innocence and award just compensation.
Is this the same process in Islam lands, or is the wronged party, according to the Qur'an, justified in punishing whoever he feels has wronged him?
In Islamic Land, it is the same process. The Wali or defender of the victim's right is taken as the heir or next of kin or may also apply to the government of the victim in the following Verse:
And do not take any human being's life - (the life) which God has willed to be sacred - otherwise than in (the pursuit) of justice. Hence if anyone has been slain wrongfully, We have empowered the defender of his rights (to exact a just retribution) but even so, let him not exceed the bounds of equity in (retributive) killing.
Since Muslim lands have governments then it would be the court and law that would act as a Wali or defender of rights for the citizen murdered. The Islamic Govt is the Protector or defender of all citizens in that land. But the word slain wrongfully needs to be kept in mind by the Wali because it refers to willful homicide and not accidental.
What happens in the secular system when its accidental btw?
What happens in the secular system when its accidental btw?
Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought, either express or implied. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. It is normally divided into two categories; constructive manslaughter and criminally negligent manslaughter, both of which may involve criminal or civil liability.
“Cooperation in seeking truth is inherent to religion, but sincerity in the pursuit of truth can be distinguished by certain conditions and signs. A diligent seeker of truth may be compared to one who is looking for his lost camel. It would be immaterial for him if he or another person should be the one to find it. Likewise, a sincere truth-seeker would perceive his partner as a helper rather than an adversary, and would be grateful to him if he should guide him to truth.” - Al-Ghazali
You asked a question regarding the meanings of thaalim (th like “the”). I offer the following in the hope that it may help you in this, and indeed, in how to understand the Qur'an in it's original Arabic, in general.
I believe you mentioned in your introductory thread that you have studied some Modern Standard Arabic (MSA). (smile) This makes things a little easier. You have probably been introduced to the Hans-Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic. I use the Compact Fourth Edition myself.
If you can find the root of whichever word you are interested in understanding, then you can use this dictionary. If you have trouble with the roots, you can find them by looking on this site: http://corpus.quran.com With this site, you can get the words translated word-by-word, and if you click on a particular word, you'll be given the root letters.There are also apps for your smartphone that can do this, like Bayan Quran on the iphone.
I find this dictionary is curiously deficient in certain key words needed to fully understand the Qur'an. Nevertheless, it can be very useful for many words. If you come across words that seem deficient in meaning (or you can't find them at all), you could try this site: http://lanelexicon.com/2013/02/27/la...glish-lexicon/ You can get Lane's Lexicon. Personally, I find it a nuisance (and time-consuming) to search through, but when necessary, it is interesting. The link to the actual Lexicon is at the top of the page. It takes a while to open.
If you look up ظ-ل-م (in the Hans Wehr), you will find first the meanings of the verbs in the I-X form patterns (not all forms exist for all roots).
Form I ظلم (thalama): to do wrong or evil; to wrong, treat unjustly, ill-treat, oppress, beset, harm, suppress, tyrannize (someone), commit outrage (upon someone); to act the tyrant, act tyrannically (toward or against someone).
Form I (thalima) and form IV أظلم (athlama): to be or grow dark, dusky, gloomy, murky, tenebrous, darken, darkle.
Form V تَظَلََّمَ (tathallama): to complain (of, about); to lodge a complaint.
Form VII and VIII إظّلَمَ (iththalama): to suffer injustice, be wronged.
Looking at the various meanings of the verbs gives often gives a good feel of the deeper meanings of a root. But I like to read the entire entry, including whatever derived nouns, adjectives, adverbs or whatever there may be linked to the root. Then it is useful to “step back” and consider the entire entry and try to see how the word “feels” with all it's symbolic meanings. Sometimes the connections between the different shades of meaning are clear, but other times they require a little meditation and imagination. Thalim, though, is pretty straight forward, I find.
(smile) For your delectation, here are the other entries under ظلم:
It is also useful to fit the words into the Qur'anic worldview. When the Qur'an says, for example, that a person “wrongs” himself, it fits in with the idea that he is darkening his heart, he is sliding towards increasingly more corrupted levels of bad behaviour (of various kinds), he is inflicting damage on his own Self, he is suppressing the good in himself, he is covering over his connection with God.
It is outside the scope of this post to look at all the ways in which the various ideas in the Qur'an interlock and create arguments with perfect internal logic, but I invite you to try to look at the Qur'an as a whole. If you snip bits out and translate them, you may go astray. It is necessary to read the whole Qur'an, thoughtfully, and then start analyzing it more closely. If you are sincerely trying to understand God's Will, you will find it (He Has Promised so).
In order to understand the Qur'an, it seems to me, it is not necessary to have a perfect mastery of Qur'anic Arabic. Indeed, I would argue, it is possible that a person could have perfect mastery, but fail to understand the Qur'an. What is really needed is a desire to find God.
Imagine you are in a regularly lit room with a one-way window. The way this works, is that whichever side has more light can be seen by someone on the other side. If I activate a light switch on my side of the window, this switches on a really bright light which illuminates the other room, and I can see what is there. If I don't activate the light switch, the window looks like a mirror, and all I can see is myself.
A person who approaches the Qur'an with no interest in finding God, will only see a reflection of themselves. Depending on the sort of person they are, they will see something more or less beautiful (or ugly, if you prefer). But if they open their hearts and call out to God (like activating the switch), thirsting to find Him, God Shines His Light, and the message in the Qur'an is then visible. And the more you seek God, the brighter the Light He Gifts you with, and the more you can see.
(smile) Anyway, I hope this post may help you, Eshai, in your quest to find God/understanding the Qur'an.
May Allah, the Light that banishes all forms of darkness, Guide us all in our quests.
Last edited by MuslimInshallah; 12-04-2014 at 11:12 PM.
(smile) Yes, studying the Qur'an is a lifelong process. But this does not mean that we cannot gain from it immediately. (smile) For me, studying the Qur'an is a bit like studying a fractal (here's a pretty one I found: http://www.wallsforpc.com/wallpaper/fractal/). At first the heart and mind can appreciate the general outlines, but then, as you study it more, you notice more and more details that nourish your heart and mind ever more.
Yes, it can take perseverance and patience to study the Qur'an. But the rewards start immediately. (smile) I wanted to say this in case you felt a bit overwhelmed. I know there was a time in my life when I thought that I need to be really good at Arabic before I could properly approach the Qur'an. And so I didn't try to read it in Arabic by myself, though I felt confused about some things in translation. But (smile) I finally started to realize that I could approach the Qur'an by myself, little by little. And I discovered that every time I consulted the Qur'an, some good thing or another blossomed into my life, like spring flowers. (smile) So now, I read a little Qur'an every day. And each time I do, a little more detail offers itself to me.
May God, the Glorious and Splendid, Help us to read His Glorious Book.
The first verse I began researching was Sura 22, Verse 39.
In my studies, I have observed that the English words "oppressed" and "wrong" have both been used in various translations when translating the Arabic word "m'thloom." In English, these two words have very different meanings.
The English word "oppressed" is more similar to the Arabic word "c'mah," which is "suppression" in English. When the word "oppressed" is used in English, it conveys a meaning of being prevented from doing something which is considered to be good and right, deliberately through violence or through economic means.
In English, the word "wronged" is generally used in a lesser sense. For example, a person is "wronged" if something was stolen from them. You can be "wronged" even when it is accidental, such as someone coming around a corner and bumping into you.
"Oppression" in English generally conveys a sense of something severe, and something which alters your entire lifestyle. It is deliberate, and highly offensive.
"Wronged" in English can apply to virtually anything, and is often used when conveying general problems.
But then there's the technicality: people are being "wronged" when they are being "oppressed," no doubt. But to be simply "wronged" is almost never the same as being "oppressed" in the English context.
In the Qur'an, in 22:39, what is the Arabic word being used for the English "wronged," or in other translations, "oppressed" ?
format_quote Originally Posted by Eshai
Thanks for the reply.
The first verse I began researching was Sura 22, Verse 39.
In my studies, I have observed that the English words "oppressed" and "wrong" have both been used in various translations when translating the Arabic word "m'thloom." In English, these two words have very different meanings.
The English word "oppressed" is more similar to the Arabic word "c'mah," which is "suppression" in English. When the word "oppressed" is used in English, it conveys a meaning of being prevented from doing something which is considered to be good and right, deliberately through violence or through economic means.
In English, the word "wronged" is generally used in a lesser sense. For example, a person is "wronged" if something was stolen from them. You can be "wronged" even when it is accidental, such as someone coming around a corner and bumping into you.
"Oppression" in English generally conveys a sense of something severe, and something which alters your entire lifestyle. It is deliberate, and highly offensive.
"Wronged" in English can apply to virtually anything, and is often used when conveying general problems.
But then there's the technicality: people are being "wronged" when they are being "oppressed," no doubt. But to be simply "wronged" is almost never the same as being "oppressed" in the English context.
In the Qur'an, in 22:39, what is the Arabic word being used for the English "wronged," or in other translations, "oppressed" ?
Salaam,
The Commentary book namely: The Meaning of The Qur'aan, volume 3, by S.Abul A'la Maududi gives the following translation of 22: 39;
Permission (to fight) has been granted to those against whom war has been waged, because they have been treated unjustly, and Allah is certainly able to help them.
The commentary of this verse says that this is the first permission that Allah gave to the Muslims to fight against the oppressor, idolaters. Please read the explanatory note 78 of the chapter 22 in in this volume.
I must explain a few points:
1. We should read a good commentary of the Holy Qur'aan because the commentary gives the circumstances in which the verses were revealed. In my opinion, this commentary (mentioned above) is the best of those which I tried to read.
2. If you think deeply about the verse and read it again and again, you will understand the correct meaning from the words in side the verse itself or in its context. For e.g. in this verse Allah said:
uzina lillazheena yuqaataloona (permission is given to those against whom war has been waged). The bold underlined word means those against whom war has been waged. So only this one word explains the meaning of ظلموا .
3.Also from a commentary you can understand the Islamic history. This permission was given to the Muslims after they suffered and showed patience for 13 years. During that period some were even killed by the idolaters. Then they migrated to Madinah but the unbelievers didn't stop oppressing and persecuting them. The translation "wronged" in this context is not proper at all.
4. As sister Musliminsha-Allah pointed out, for understanding Quraan it is not necessary to learn Arabic. But during trial to understand the Holy Quraan Allah will give you wisdom and chances to learn Arabic. So you must try to understand the Quraan and the rest leave to Allah.
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