Hmm similar to questions I might have...
I've some questions, and I will get straight to it.
A. I sometimes, get the impression that Islam is 'cult-like', cause some verses says to "be ruthless to kafirs, and kind and merciful to your brothers, Muslims" but there is also verses that says to be kind to those who don't attack you on deen....
B. Should we really hate kafirs, personally, because of their religion????????
C. Are there terms such as 'innocents' in Islam, regarding kafirs?
D. Are we only allowed to be kind to Muslims, even if they are rude.. What about the kafirs, if they are rude, shouldn't we be the mature one?
E. Verse 7:179 says.. Any explanation? Why would Allah punish someone, when they were created for Hell?
I understood that, everyone is born a Muslim, with the ability to believe. But if one does not practice or excerise that ability to discern/believe in truth, one will lose it.. But this ayats makes it sound that they were born with blind hearts. etc. How is it fair?
Would Allah punish someone for being confused? Not knowing? Not finding the truth? Not being convinced?
Hmm similar to questions I might have...
A - Give examples.
B - Why would you hate a non Muslim? Didn't the prophet pray from the people in Taif and mecca.
C- Like not killing women and children etc.
D - Your meant to say "peace" and walk away from the ignorant.
E - Verse 182 answers your question.
They are not born with blind hearts - they Choose to follow the path of deviation.
God does what he wills and God is Just.
A -format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Example:
O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
I just want to know.... Hatred and love for the sake of Allah...... Why should we hate people for their religion?
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8
I just want to know. How should our relationship with kafirs be??
There is a verse, I can't remember what verse completely but somewhere along the lines of "You won't find amongst those who believe in Allah, His messenger, and the Last Day, showing affection to the disbelievers, having drown out the prophets, killed the believers"
So... My guess is, IF the kafirs show harshness against us, what should we do?
So:
A. We can not show affection, towards the disbelievers, but still be kind.
B. It only reffers to the harsh and stubborn disbelievers.
Soo, how can we do dawah, if we can not be kind to those who attack us on our deen??
B.
Has there ever been peaceful coexistence with other religions? An ayat where it says "Fight in the cause of Allah till all religion (ie. worship) is for Allah" ?
Last edited by Serinity; 02-20-2016 at 11:44 AM.
Mazpop liked this post
I'll try to make it simple...
During the time of the prophet (saw), the different religions lived peacefully in Medina. Point to note, they still can. There is a 'way'.
What changed? Intention. So when that changes, it breaks the fabric of the community, and if it is hostile, take appropriate action. If all is well and good, there is nothing wrong with peaceful coexistence. After all, there is no compulsion in religion. It is when trouble makers try to stir something up, then it must be nipped in the bud, so to speak. So now what happens? The abuse of power . . .
Fight in the cause of Allah is not a literal request or order. It does not mean GO TO WAR as long as you shall live kind of thing. It just means, make Allah your priority in life, and to call people to do the same as much as you are able to. That is ideal, but we know it is not going to be, right? Even nabi could not get his uncle to lafaz the shahada. But the fight is in not stopping. It should never stop. We have to fight oppression and give to charity especially to the orphans. Be kind to your neighbours, (it does not qualify who!) it is also said that wa true muslim is one that wishes for his neighbours what he wishes for himself!
So what is this talk of fight (and killing)? Surely it is all taken out of context. If we dig up the history behind those ayats, we might find that it relates to some on going affairs of the time and its remedy.
Ok.
So can I act human to everyone I meet and stay Muslim? I realise I don't understand Islam 100%
I will stick to Islam no matter what, but I fear hypocrisy.
I also get the impression, that you can't show affection to non muslims. My question is how can we expect people to join Islam then???
Pls make dua for me. One of the reasons I got attracted / considered Islam in the past, was because someone shoed me affection. I very much doubt if they were ruthless, that I would love Islam that much.
Last edited by Serinity; 02-20-2016 at 03:58 PM.
Al Sultan liked this post
Quoting from a post by another member,
The Muslim Tolerance
There is another aspect of this matter which cannot be found in the edicts of the law, nor can it be enforced by the courts or the government: this is the so-called "spirit of tolerance" which underlies upright attitudes, benevolent dealings, respect for one's neighbors, and all the sincere sentiments of piety, compassion, and courtesy. Such attitude is required in everyday life and cannot be obtained through constitutional legislation or the courts' jurisdiction. The spirit of tolerance is exclusively practiced in Islamic society. It appears in several verses of the Qur'an, which tell of parents who attempted to turn their sons from the unity of God to polytheism: "You bear them company in this life with justice." (Luqman: 15)
Similar too is the call of the Qur'an to righteousness and justice in dealings with the non-Muslims who do not oppose Muslims in their religion: "God forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for God loves those who are just." (Al-Mumtahanah : 8)
The Qur'an describes the righteous in the following terms: "And they feed, for the love of God, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive." (Al-Insan : 8)
The captives, at the time of this verse's revelation, were polytheists. The Qur'an also explains that there is no harm in incurring expenses on behalf of polytheists who are relatives or neighbors of Muslims: "It is not required of you (O Apostle) to see them on the right path, but God sets on the right path whom He pleases. Whatever good you give benefits you own souls. And you shall only do so seeking the "Face of God." (Al-Baqarah: 272)
Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, Abu Hanifah's colleague and scribe, has reported that the Prophet had sent money to the people of Makkah when they were facing drought. It was to be distributed among the poor, although the Prophet and his companions had undergone a great deal of torture and oppression at the Makkah's hands.
Imams Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and Ahmad related on the authority of 'Asma bint Abi Bakr that she said: "During the covenant with the Quraish, my polytheistic mother came to see me. I asked the Prophet, upon whom be peace, 'O Messenger of Allah, if my mother came to me wishing to see me, should I maintain good relations with her?' He replied, 'Yes you should treat her kindly.
The words of the Qur'an indicate the correct manner of discussion with non-Muslims: "And do not dispute with the people of the book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury). But say: 'we believe in the Revelation, which has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is one." (Al-Ankabut: 46)
This tolerance manifests itself very clearly in the conduct of the Prophet, in his dealings with the people of the book, whether Christians or Jews. The Prophet used to visit them, treat them kindly and with respect, console their sick and deal with them in terms of "live and let live."
Ibn Ishaq in his Sirah (biography of the Prophet) stated: 'When the delegation of Najrani Christians came to the Prophet at Madinah, they entered his mosque in the afternoon to meet him. It was their prayer time, so they began to perform their prayer in the mosque. Some Muslims were about to prevent them from doing so, but the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Let them pray.", So they faced eastward and performed their prayer.'
Based on the preceding incident, Ibn al-Qayyim, a mujtahid scholar, put up a sign in front of the mosque reading "Admission granted to people of the book that the people of the book could perform their prayers in the presence of Muslims was evidently clear to him.
Read more at: Religious toleration?
I also have a question on apostasy
I remember an incident, where Umar ibn al-Khittab r.a. converted to Islam, and proclaimed and announced his Islam publically.
If an apostate from Islam would do that, then he would be executed, right?
Can you explain to me how that is reasonable? If a christian would torture a Muslim convert, and execute him, after refusing kufr.
Last edited by Serinity; 02-21-2016 at 01:21 PM.
And eventually became fully Muslim.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillI'll try to make it simple...
During the time of the prophet (saw), the different religions lived peacefully in Medina. Point to note, they still can. There is a 'way'.
Scimi
It is often believed that the Bible gives absolute religious freedom to everyone. Most of the Christians in the United States and the the West think that the freedom of choice and speech that they have comes originally from the Bible. Let's just see how accurate this myth really is.......1-In the Old and New Testaments:In the Old Testament:......Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying:Let us go and worship other gods(gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him.Show him no pity.Do not spare him or shield him.You must certainly put him to death.Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."Also let us look atDeuteronomy 17:3-5"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.".........http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htmformat_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Last edited by azc; 02-21-2016 at 02:12 PM.
Of course we have it hadeeth that Dajjal will camp on Al Jurf and the disbeliever and hypocrites of Medina will go out to join him.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillI'll try to make it simple...
During the time of the prophet (saw), the different religions lived peacefully in Medina. Point to note, they still can. There is a 'way'.
What changed? Intention. So when that changes, it breaks the fabric of the community, and if it is hostile, take appropriate action. If all is well and good, there is nothing wrong with peaceful coexistence. After all, there is no compulsion in religion. It is when trouble makers try to stir something up, then it must be nipped in the bud, so to speak. So now what happens? The abuse of power . . .
Fight in the cause of Allah is not a literal request or order. It does not mean GO TO WAR as long as you shall live kind of thing. It just means, make Allah your priority in life, and to call people to do the same as much as you are able to. That is ideal, but we know it is not going to be, right? Even nabi could not get his uncle to lafaz the shahada. But the fight is in not stopping. It should never stop. We have to fight oppression and give to charity especially to the orphans. Be kind to your neighbours, (it does not qualify who!) it is also said that wa true muslim is one that wishes for his neighbours what he wishes for himself!
So what is this talk of fight (and killing)? Surely it is all taken out of context. If we dig up the history behind those ayats, we might find that it relates to some on going affairs of the time and its remedy.
So yeah, they do live among Muslims in Medina - whose to say the do not?
Scimi
I mean as long as the apostate does not corrupt people, why kill?
Let's say you hate someone. You have some choices; could make it known to him personally, via gossip channel (or talking to your friends about that person), state it publicly or keep it to yourself.. each will have different outcomes.
The story you quoted about Umar, he actually challenged anyone to defy him. Nobody dared to do anything. If I were to go out and do the same I am challenging people. I will either get no reaction or get lynched at worse. Most likely lynched.
So if I were to use my noodles, it is best to keep it low profile. . . Unless of course, you are issuing out a challenge.
To add further, the question will arise in the public mind why it was declared?
Then assumptions will bubble through, correctly or incorrectly, and once opinions are formed Syaitan can take over causing a frenzy...
it's very easy to instigate and very hard to quell once it has gained momentum. Like a witch hunt.
So this law, is like a prevention, to not spark disunity etc.?format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillTo add further, the question will arise in the public mind why it was declared?
Then assumptions will bubble through, correctly or incorrectly, and once opinions are formed Syaitan can take over causing a frenzy...
it's very easy to instigate and very hard to quell once it has gained momentum. Like a witch hunt.
So it is executed on those who cause disunity and defames Islam..
Ok, while I am still confused about this Law, I will move on to the next.
A kafir doesn't need to realize the truth and reject it to go to Jahannam
This thread says that Allah will punish people, even if they don't know, or haven't realised the truth. But I know, that Allah won't punish a people unless they got a sound message of Islam etc.
I know Allah is all-just, all-knowing, and all-wise. So I can't see how Allah will punish someone straightaway for not knowing.
I know Allah is all just, so it is not for me to question Allah, audhu billah. But I just want some clarification.
Btw, I trust in Allah's Justice, so I know Allah won't do any injustice.
Last edited by Serinity; 02-21-2016 at 05:24 PM.
Exactly!
Only we don't understand... and I'm not the best to explain. Just trust in Him.
Sorry for troubling you, but I've some questions again...format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillExactly!
Only we don't understand... and I'm not the best to explain. Just trust in Him.
So:
A. Is it permissible to kill a kafir? (personally I would never kill anyone, just because of faith)
B. Is it permissible to take kafirs as friends? (not allies) ... But is it also permissible, in a serious situation to ally with christians to bring down a dictator?
C. I read, somewhere, don't know it's authencity, but Umar r.a. said that "The polytheists blood is cheaper than that of a dog's"
My guesss is it is restricted by context, and does not necessarily mean ALL non muslims? Cuz, Allah honored the off spring of Adam AS.
D. What does this verse mean:
48:29 "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward."
A) B)+C) are kind of inter related. We are not supposed to kill anyone, unless they transgress.. I think that covers that. How would you convert anyone if hostility exists between religions? Kindness is a powerful thing. The dog comparison I suppose is an intellectual statement using the dog as a lowly animal (a pig would be, I guess, too insulting) but an animal non the less.
Why? My guess is that with mind and reason, you will find the truth. If you can't, with the mind and intellect gifted to us, we should be worst off than the animals. They have not the gift of mind.
I may not be accurate.. I may also be way off the mark!
On D) I have to read up on it. Might be a while..unless someone else takes over and correct my errors
Ok. Cuz, honestly, I only got 100% aware of Islam after getting spoken to about it.format_quote Originally Posted by greenhillA) B)+C) are kind of inter related. We are not supposed to kill anyone, unless they transgress.. I think that covers that. How would you convert anyone if hostility exists between religions? Kindness is a powerful thing. The dog comparison I suppose is an intellectual statement using the dog as a lowly animal (a pig would be, I guess, too insulting) but an animal non the less.
Why? My guess is that with mind and reason, you will find the truth. If you can't, with the mind and intellect gifted to us, we should be worst off than the animals. They have not the gift of mind.
I may not be accurate.. I may also be way off the mark!
On D) I have to read up on it. Might be a while..unless someone else takes over and correct my errors
Anyways, yeah. No need for hostility if there is no need to.
Last edited by Serinity; 02-22-2016 at 04:20 PM.
I thought most of these clarified in Post#7 above. Anyway, in short,format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
A. No, it is not permissible. The only case where it would be permissible is when there is a full fledged war and even then, only the enemy soldiers would be killed. There are clear regulations in Islam regarding not harming any child, woman, elderly, priests, those who are under treaty with Muslims, places of (non-Muslim) worship, plantation etc.
B. In Arabic, there are several levels of friendship such as (but not limited to)رفيق - similar to acquaintanceAnd some more that I am not aware of.
صاحب - partner/companion
صديق - general friend
ولي - close ally
أنيس -
محب -
عاشق -
خليل -
حبيب
What is prohibited is not taking them as close ally / best personal friend and anything closer than that.
C & D I will reply later.
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