I wanna understand something which I recently just knew about,which is slavery,i admire the way how in islam you don't call them slave,you call them either daughter,brother,son,sister,and treat them very well and give them clothes,food,shelter,and don't hit them,and don put a lot of pressure on them,and if they find pressure in their work,YOU help them too which is basically erasing the image of "slave" and its amazing,although I have questions which I might not understand,and I hope you can help me understand.
I heard that you can have SEX with the slave,which kind of confused me but of course it was reminded NOT to force them to do which I respect,but I wanna ask a couple of questions...
if that SLAVE is married,and has a child,and her child is held as a slave,can you still have sex with her? and if so,isnt that like,cheating?
and also,if prophet mohammed (PBUH) had sex with one of his slaves,which he had 4 slaves I believe (women) why didn't he set them free?
if you are already married,can you still have sex with that slave? if so,isnt it cheating again?
why is sex not prohibited with slaves,they're kafir,and you cant have sex with a kafir?...only if you marry her then okay
know that I am trying to understand this,and I am by asking you brothers to help me,and to end this terrible wiswas that I'm having now,so PLEASE help me understand these questions that I don't understand at all,and if you can explain it all in detail and specifically so I don't have any confusion anymore,and jazakom allah'o wa kol kahir
No wonder there is so much confusion about this topic; nobody seems to be able to explain it clearly.
From the article linked above:
No human being has the right to restrict this freedom or take away that choice unlawfully; whoever dares to do that is a wrongdoer and oppressor.
So why does Islam permit slavery, which involves precisely this?
we should examine the matter with fairness and with the aim of seeking the truth, and we should examine the details of the rulings on slavery in Islam, with regard to the sources and reasons for it, and how to deal with the slave and how his rights and duties are equal to those of the free man, and the ways in which he may earn his freedom,
If the slave's rights and duties are equal to those of a free man, then why would he need to earn his freedom at all?
Out of interest, is a female slave-owner allowed to have sex with one of her male slaves without it counting as zina?
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Out of interest, is a female slave-owner allowed to have sex with one of her male slaves without it counting as zina?
Peace
An incident like that happened happened during the reign of Caliph 'Umar (may God be pleased with him), and the woman's action had not counted as definite zina (fornication) as per its definition and she was not punished for having intercourse with the male slave:
In the article "Marriage and Slavery in Early Islam" Ziba Mir-Hosseini discusses this incident: "A few years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), a free Muslim woman chose one of her younger male slaves as a sexual partner. To stop her, her kinsmen took her to the caliph 'Umar [] and demanded that she be punished for illicit sex (zina). The woman saw nothing wrong in what she had done and justified her action by invoking the Qur'anic verse that permits sexual relations between a master and his female slaves. 'I thought,' she said, 'that ownership by the right hand [i.e., slavery] made lawful to me what it makes lawful to men.' Baffled and disarmed by her implicit claim to have God's permission, 'Umar turned for advice to the Companions of the Prophet, who said: 'She has [given] the book of Exalted God an interpretation that is not its interpretation.' 'Umar did not punish the woman for illicit sex, but forbade her from marrying any free man, and ordered the male slave not to approach her. The case was settled [...]."
'Umar did not punish the woman for illicit sex, but forbade her from marrying any free man, and ordered the male slave not to approach her. The case was settled [...]."
I like the story, but surely forbidding her from marrying any free man is a punishment?
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,
I like the story, but surely forbidding her from marrying any free man is a punishment?
Peace
Yes, I agree with you that it is a type of punishment. Yet her action did not seem to count as definite zina, which was your original question.
Edited: Oh, wait, I just had a radical thought. Maybe it's really freedom, freedom to do as she wants without a male as mate. Sort of like "women going their own way."
Survival and mating are the success model for animals in the wild. That's the best they will ever do. But marriage and children are not the highest pinnacle of success for women if they're given the opportunity, perforce, to be able to be and do something else. Many great women who lived on Earth never married, and so the question is what did they dedicate their lives to? Women accomplished and contributed far greater miracles in fields like literature when they were not married like Jane Austen and Louisa May Alcott and Emily Dickinson, spirituality like Rabia Basri and Mary peace be upon her (mother of Jesus, peace be upon him) and Mother Teresa, discovery, human endeavor, or entrepreneurship like Florence Nightingale, Susan B. Anthony, Helen Keller, Coco Chanel, and Oprah, and thanks to women like Queen Elizabeth the First, a woman knows to know a woman's sovereignty is desirable above all else.
1) what happens if she gets pregnant without them getting married?
A pregnant slave does not need to get married. The father is simply assumed to be her owner. There is nothing to fix there.
format_quote Originally Posted by MK22
2) What if the man wants to marry her but he's already got 4 wives? Can he still have intercourse with her even though he's got 4 wives?
Slave girls do not count towards that tally. That is why the Ottoman Sultan had hundreds of slave girls in his harem. There is no limit on the number of slave girls a man can possess. Furthermore, the Sultan would never marry a wife. He would only have slave girls. A marriage creates an alliance with the bride's family. This was not a desirable outcome for the Ottoman Sultan, because that would make his bride's family unequal to and above the other subjects in his empire. Therefore, marriage was considered haraam for the Sultan. He was supposed to buy ample supplies of slave girls and make do with those. And indeed, this also means that the Ottoman Sultan was always the son of a slave girl.
format_quote Originally Posted by MK22
3) what if he never wants to marry her but wants to keep her as a slave forever and have intercourse (with her permission)
Sex with slave girls is halal. So, what would be the problem? Again, there is nothing to fix here.
The slavery arrangement pretty much guarantees that both parents will be available to raise their offspring, if only, because the mother is a slave girl and is not allowed nor in a position to put an end to that arrangement. Hence, in biological terms, it is an absolutely suitable situation to raise children. If they would be wives, they would have to voluntarily behave like that. This is only suitable for women who are firm believers. You should not marry the other ones, because in that context, they are only suitable as slave girls.
thanks to women like Queen Elizabeth the First, a woman knows to know a woman's sovereignty is desirable above all else.
I read a hadith were the Prophet :saw: said a nation that makes a woman its leader, will never succeed.
Any scholar??
Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
" Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "
Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
because you still need to obey the master similarly like a employer to the employee
Employee obey the employer by his own will, and he get salary as compensation forv it. While in slavery the slave is being forced to obey the master without his own consent.
Rights and duties of slave is not equal as free man.
My question to those who support slavery: Are you willing to be slave?
For a woman, the difference is very subtle. If she is a free woman, but she is likely to use her freedom to leave, nobody right in his mind will be interested in marrying her. If she is a slave, she cannot leave. So, that would make her more suitable to raise children with than a free woman who is likely to leave. Free women are only suitable as wives if they are unlikely to use their freedom.
For men, slavery was used in different ways. All the ministers of the Sultan were slaves. Many of his governors too. Most of his generals too. In that context, slavery is just a way to run the State. The Ottoman State did not hire civil servants. The Ottoman State bought them or confiscated them (often through "Devşirme"), preferably from far away, and with no family in the empire itself. Is it a disaster to be a slave of the State? For many, it wasn't. The Ottoman Viziers, Grand Viziers, (prime minister), Beys (governor), and army generals have never been mentioned to complain that they were the slaves of the Sultan.
In fact, all the best jobs in the Ottoman empire were done by slaves. For those jobs, you could not be born as a Muslim, and certainly not as a Turk or an Arab, because as you know, Muslims are supposed to be born free. They could not be enslaved by the Sultan. So, they could also impossibly become prime minister either, because that job was always for one of his slaves.
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
(Peace be upon you)
I'm quoting the relevant part of a larger fatwa (ruling) I found:
"It is permissible for a woman to be an authority and leader in a position for which she is qualified, although some positions are specific only to men such as the position of prayer leader and supreme commander of the armed forces. Some classical scholars prohibited women from taking positions of authority and leadership based upon the statement of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him: لَنْ يُفْلِحَ قَوْمٌ وَلَّوْا أَمْرَهُمْ امْرَأَةً 'A people will not succeed who are commanded by a woman.'"
These scholars understood this statement to be general in meaning and therefore they did not allow women to take any public position of authority. However, other scholars understood this statement to be specific to commanding the armed forces and therefore allowed women to hold the position of judge. Ibn Hajar writes: وَخَالَفَ ابْنُ جَرِيرٍ الطَّبَرِيُّ فَقَالَ يَجُوزُ أَنْ تَقْضِيَ فِيمَا تُقْبَلُ شَهَادَتُهَا فِيهِ وَأَطْلَقَ بَعْضُ الْمَالِكِيَّةِ الْجَوَازَ Ibn Jareer At-Tabari disagreed with those who did not allow women to be judges and he said it is permissible for her to judge in matters in which her testimony is acceptable and some of the Maliki scholars gave them unrestricted permission to do so."
I also found another fatwa (ruling) that said the following in its entirety:
"Woman can lead other women in prayers while standing among them in the same row. Allah (swt) has given Muslim women the right to vote and voice their opinions and participate in politics. Qur’an (60:12) has told Muhammad (saws) when believing women come to him and swear their allegiance to Islam to accept their oath. Qur’an and Muhammad (saws) do not order nor forbid a woman from holding important positions in government."
Finally, I, not being any type of scholar, cannot answer your question and merely note that Queen of Sheba known to us as Bilqis is mentioned in the Quran as a ruler of a nation as a woman in honored terms, even though she and her nation subscribed to sun worship. King Solomon (peace be upon him) sent her a letter asking her to submit to Allah with the words, “In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful: Be you not exalted against me, but come to me as Muslims” (Quran 27:30-31). Bilqis consulted her advisers after receiving the letter and her advisers advise, but they also express full confidence in her wisdom and ability to make an independent judgment in the best interests of the nation: “They said: We have great strength, and great ability for war, but it is for you to command: so think over what you will command” (Quran 27:33). Bilqis decides to seek a peaceful resolution to the possible conflict realizing that a war would entail bloodshed and devastation of her nation, and so she decides to bribe King Solomon (peace be upon him) with a gift into him giving up his quest: “She said: ‘Lo! Kings, when they enter a township, ruin it and make the honor of its people shame. Thus will they do! But lo! I am going to send a present to them, and see with what (answer) my messengers return’” (Quran 27:33-35). He sees through her ploy and rejects her gift. After having her gift rejected, she makes the decision to herself go to King Solomon (peace be upon him) as part of foreign diplomacy to see if there is something else that can be worked out still.
King Solomon (peace be upon him) prepares two tests for her to gauge her mettle and to see if she recognizes the singularity of the Truth. While Bilqis is on her way to him, King Solomon (peace be upon him) asks for someone to volunteer to bring her throne to him. Solomon orders the throne, the unique symbol of the queen’s power and glory, to be disguised, in his palace to test whether she has the wisdom to recognize it: “Disguise her throne for her that we may see whether she will be guided (to recognize her throne) or she will be one of those not guided” (Quran 27:41). She recognizes the throne and proves herself to be among the guided.
When Bilqis then mistakes an area of glass covering water as a pool lifting the hem of her gown so as to not be wet and recognizes her error, she simultaneously realizes she has been fooled by the material world and has attached excessive importance to created objects in the seen world like the sun and accepts Allah as the Lord of the seen and unseen world: “My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself and I submit, with Solomon, to God, Lord of the Universe” (Quran 27:44). By accepting Islam, Bilqis shows evidence of her wisdom and ability to exercise great independent judgment and receive divine guidance. Bilqis knew, after all, to recognize she was not only before a ruler of a great kingdom but a messenger of God as well. She repented, gave up sun worship, accepted submission to God, and her nation followed suit.
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I read a hadith were the Prophet :saw: said a nation that makes a woman its leader, will never succeed.
Okay thanks for answering,pretty much I understand everything in slavery in islam now,thanks to brilliant intelligent people! but I have ONE more question left..what if that slave is a kafir? or hindu,is it okay to have sex with her and marry her or not.
I'm sorry,i just got --- off because he thought I was a muslim listening to ISIS,so I told him I wasn't,again I'm sorry,i just cant control my anger when someone tells me I follow ISIS or something..
Okay thanks for answering,pretty much I understand everything in slavery in islam now,thanks to brilliant intelligent people! but I have ONE more question left..what if that slave is a kafir? or hindu,is it okay to have sex with her and marry her or not.
This too has been answered in the previous questions. Islam allows only one source of slavery, that is the kuffar army who wages war with Muslims and is defeated. You cannot marry a slave and if freed, you (male only) cannot marry anyone other than people of scriptures (muslims, christians, jews).
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
(Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
My question to those who support slavery: Are you willing to be slave?
I do believe Islam's original intended purpose was eradication of slavery through the blanket encouragement in the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) to free slaves even though Quran tackled the reality of slavery as a preexisting institution within pagan Arabia since the days of jahilliya (ignorance).
That said, to answer your question (even if the question is not precisely directed at me but one which can clarify the matter for others who feel similarly), I see Islam's position on slavery specific to women as protective of their personhood and do not believe I would have minded been the life of a slave if practiced as actually envisioned in early days of Islam. The reasons for this is many, but let's go through some of them:
(1) Because typically invading armies or genocidal military forces historically and to present day in many countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina or Rwanda rape women as an instrument of war. Muslims engaged in jihad, however, are forbidden from perpetrating on any person under any circumstance rape as an instrument of war. A woman's honor is considered sacred regardless of her religion, and her dignity and honor are taken as inviolable.
(2) Women historically and to present day have been captured without in society having any clear ideas of their status except as subjugated pleasure-givers and prostitutes easily discarded like the Japanese Imperial Army did before and during WWII to 200,000 women to girls as young as 12 and are made out to be "invisible." However, in Islam, any women from the losing side are given the benefit and rock-solid protection of a status as a maid servant or slave whose existence is acknowledged and recognized in society. They cannot be forced to copulate as their consent is considered vital to any physical relationship. And if the persons do engage in a physical relationship, her Islamic status is akin to "pilegesh," status that Hajar in the Bible had without the accompanying status of an actual wife.
(3) Typically, some women have been even killed when they outlive their usefulness as a sexual assault victim in rage in wars, something that happened when an American soldier raped a 14-year old Iraqi girl and killed the family and there is no way for any remaining relatives to be given justice. However, even the slightest of abuse of any slave (male or female) is disallowed in Islam and typically resulted in manumission as per the encouragement in the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps). And under Islam, since their personhood and status is recognized in society, slaves are allowed to present their grievances directly to Muslim authorities for any purpose including one's own or treatment of other relatives. Prophet said: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.”
(4) Women have prostituted themselves after warfare or been prey to starvation or poverty in previous times because women were dependent then on menfolk for their livelihood. However, Muslim households are forced to take in women as maid servants. They are given a status as also a de facto member of the household, one who merits consideration of food, clothing, and shelter as the hadith states, avoiding the evil situation of prostitution and destitution and starvation. And they were also to be treated as brethren and not otherized. Prophet said: “Your servants are thy brethren. Allah has put them under your control. He could, if He willed, make you under their control. Thus, whoever has his brother under his control, let him feed him of his same food and dress him of his same dress. Never saddle them with work that goes beyond their capability. If the work happens to be somehow difficult, lend them a helping hand.”
(5) in America, masters were forbidden to engage in any type of education of their slaves and slaves in turn were also forbidden to read or write as the predominant idea was that such literacy would result in them not being easily controllable or subjugated as knowledge is power. However, the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) encouraged education of slaves.
(6) In America, any child born to a slave retained the slave status of the mother and the mother too remained a slave. In Islam, a slave giving birth to any person that that woman and the baby now were automatically freed from their status as slaves.
(7) In America, the male owner did not marry the slave because the slave. However, in Islam, the male owner was encouraged to marry the female slave. Prophet said: “If any of you have a slave girl, whom he gives good education and excellent training, and then he emancipates her and marries her, he shall have a two-fold reward.”
(8) In America, the tasks given to the slave did not merit any help from the owner and any menial tasks were considered the singular domain of the lesser being. However, in Islam, the owner was to help the slaves and not overburden the slave with any tasks and no task is considered menial for an able-bodied person.
(9) In America, slaves were bought and sold on the market like merchandise. However, that is forbidden in Islam and slaves were instead distributed to Muslim households.
(10) In America, there were few to no opportunities for a slave to buy his/her emancipation. However, Islam enjoined allowing slaves to buy their freedom and on top of them to give them money to start their new life as a free person. The Quran (24:33) says, “And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you.”
Slavery is not an ideal situation by any means for any person; and I don't want anyone to take my words as meaning otherwise. That said, slavery is the better alternative than nothing else or even worse evils, and thereby Islam affords people the benefit of slave status in the face of reality of warfare.
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(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
(may God be pleased with him), and the woman's action had not counted as definite zina (fornication) as per its definition and she was not punished for having intercourse with the male slave:
(peace and blessings be upon him), a free Muslim woman chose one of her younger male slaves as a sexual partner. To stop her, her kinsmen took her to the caliph 'Umar [
(Peace be upon you)
(And peace be upon you)
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