@ZeeshanParvez
Do you give any respect for imam Dhabi rh. He wrote
Shafiee said: People are children of Abu Haneefa in fiqh. I say: Fiqh and Deducing rulings from fiqh is clear from this Imam. This is something where there is no doubt. (Then dahabee writes the arabic poetry which means) Even If there is a need to provide evidence for emittance of the day, Then according to the people who have this type of mind nothing is authentic. Two volumes can be written on the life of Imam, this was the life of Imam. May Allah be please with him and shower his mercy on him. He was martyred in 150 Hijrah because someone gave him poison. He was 70 years old at that time.{ السیر :6/403 }
Will you mind to see this salafi link and do tawba from this grudge and hatred
I haven't mentioned anything about Abu Hanifah being weak. You seem to mix up users. Do you mix up Fiqh and Hadith in your learning as well? You don't suffer from impaired cognitive function do you? Link told you Abu Hanifah is weak in hadith and can show you. I haven't touched the subject as of yet.
I have highlighted a fact you fail to address because you cannot.
Your fuqahaa used a weak hadith to prohibit the funeral prayer in the mosque.
al-Nawawi said all huffaaz say that hadith is weak.
Now I gave you the page number of the book and the Arabic. Stop running every thread into pages so others cannot see the evidence as I will simply start copying pasting it on every page until you stop going off on tangents.
You claim fuqahaa judge hadith. You do not know what you talk about.
I don't say this. al-Nawawi showed that your fuqahaa used a weak hadith.
I haven't mentioned anything about Abu Hanifah being weak. You seem to mix up users. Do you mix up Fiqh and Hadith in your learning as well? You don't suffer from impaired cognitive function do you? Link told you Abu Hanifah is weak in hadith and can show you. I haven't touched the subject as of yet.
I have highlighted a fact you fail to address because you cannot.
Your fuqahaa used a weak hadith to prohibit the funeral prayer in the mosque.
al-Nawawi said all huffaaz say that hadith is weak.
Now I gave you the page number of the book and the Arabic. Stop running every thread into pages so others cannot see the evidence as I will simply start copying pasting it on every page until you stop going off on tangents.
You claim fuqahaa judge hadith. You do not know what you talk about.
I don't say this. al-Nawawi showed that your fuqahaa used a weak hadith.
Now what is your answer to this question.
Discuss Abu Hanifah with Link.
Do you Havre comprehension problem?
I quoted the statement of imam Dhabi rh that imam shafi rh said " people are children of imam Abu hanifa rh in fiqh" which you have tried prove as fabricated statement.
Open your eyes, put off the glasses of hatred from your eyes and read.
I quoted the statement of imam Dhabi rh that imam shafi rh said " people are children of imam Abu hanifa rh in fiqh" which you have tried prove as fabricated statement.
Open your eyes, put off the glasses of hatred from your eyes and read.
Don't pollute this forum with your ill mentality.
Provide the scanned copy with the chain if you are truthful otherwise you are going off on tangents and have proven that you are ignorant.
Provide the scanned copy with the chain if you are truthful otherwise you are going off on tangents and have proven that you are ignorant.
Your a jahil and liar.
This statement of imam shafi rh you tried to prove fabricated without quoting the name of book or muhaddis, now hiding your face
They don't. You need to learn before making erroneous statements like that. A faqiih needs to be a hadith expert but we have many examples where the faqiih has used a weak hadith.
Let's take those fuqahaa' among the Hanafis who have used the following weak hadith for their position that you cannot pray the funeral prayer in the mosque:
من صلى على جنازة في المسجد فلا شئ
al-Nawawi said in al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab regarding that narration:
(وأما) حديث أبي هريرة هذا (فجوابه) من أوجه (أحدها) أنه ضعيف باتفاق الحفاظ وممن نص على ضعفه الإمام أحمد بن حنبل وأبو بكر بن المنذر
والبيهقي وآخرون
[Paraphrase]
As for this hadith of Abu Hurairah then it is answered from many angles. One of them being that is weak by the consensus of the Huffaaz. Those who talked about it being weak included Ahmad bin Hanbal, Abu Bakr bin al-Mundhir, al-BaihaQi and others.
The Hanafi fuqahaa have used this weak hadith to forbid prayer in the mosque.
The Shaafi'i fuqahaa and Muhaddithuun have used the authentic narration in Sahih Muslim to permit it.
Please do not call others misguided while you clearly lack knowledge on a subject.
Reference(s):
al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab
Volume 5 Page 214
a faqih is one who performs ijtihad thus has to have a thorough insight into all evidences, hence a prerequiste is to master all the relevent sciences and hadith mastery is one of them; in that link i gave link [ha ha link i gave link! ] it says they have to know the status of hadiths; i have also read that they have to know all the hadith narrators biography rather intimately too so far from it being erroneous, this is what all ahlus sunnah scholars will say
a hadith can be weak to one scholar and hasan or even sahih to another, this is why best to follow a madhab as we laymen cannot work out which opinion is correct; if we give preference to one hadith over another we are just following our desires because if it is not based on a thoroughly insightful ijtihad, what else can it be based on?
bro look at how a hadith status can differ from Imam to imam:
I don't play 'go read the link'. Anything you want to present, present it in your own words/write it out yourself or even copy it if you want. Unless it is a scan (for obvious reasons.)
Second you quoted my post and replied to something which was not even mentioned in this post.
Third, I have told you to prove the prayer of Hanafi women using
1) Weak ahadeeth, I challenged you that even using weak ahadeeth you cannot
2) Then I said using the sayings of Abu Haneefah.
You haven't done any of that until now.
Last edited by Linkdeutscher; 05-10-2017 at 11:50 AM.
Your a jahil and liar.
This statement of imam shafi rh you tried to prove fabricated without quoting the name of book or muhaddis, now hiding your face
I don't play 'go read the link'. Anything you want to present, present it in your own words/write it out yourself or even copy it if you want. Unless it is a scan (for obvious reasons.)
Second you quoted my post and replied to something which was not even mentioned in this post.
Third, I have told you to prove the prayer of Hanafi women using
1) Weak ahadeeth, I challenged you that even using weak ahadeeth you cannot
2) Then I said using the sayings of Abu Haneefah.
You haven't done any of that until now.
The Shafi‘i Madhhab
Imam al-Nawawi (631 – 676 H), the great Shafi‘i muhaqqiq, said:
قال الشافعي رحمه الله فى المختصر: ولا فرق بين الرجال والنساء في عمل الصلاة، إلا أن المرأة يستحب لها أن تضم بعضها إلى بعض وأن تلصق بطنها بفخذيها فى السجود كأستر ما يكون، وأحب ذلك فى الركوع وفي جميع الصلاة، وأن تكثف جلبابها وتجافيه راكعة وساجدة لئلا يصفها ثيابها، وأن تخفض صوتها وإن نابها شيء في صلاتها صفقت، هذا نصه.
قال أصحابنا: المرأة كالرجل في أركان الصلاة وشروطها وأبعاضها وأما الهيئات المسنونات فهي كالرجل في معظمها وتخالفه فيما ذكره الشافعي، وىخالف النساء الرجال في صلاة الجماعة في أشياء…
“Al-Shafi‘i – may Allah have mercy on him – said in al-Mukhtasar: ‘There is no distinction between men and women in the actions of Salah, except that it is preferable for the woman that part of her clings to a part, and her stomach clings to her thighs in prostration in a manner that is most concealing (for her), and I prefer this in bowing and in the entire Salah; and that she makes her jilbab thick and she separates it (from her body) while bowing and prostrating so that her clothing does not describe her (i.e. her shape and form); and that she lowers her voice and if something occurs to her in her Salah (while in congregation), she claps (i.e. to alert the imam to the mistake).’ This is his (i.e. al-Shafi‘i’s) statement.
“Our companions said: The woman is like the man in the integrals of Salah, its conditions and its parts. As for the prescribed postures, she is like the man in most of them and she differs from him in what al-Shafi‘i mentioned. And women differ from men in congregational prayer in some things…” (al-Majmu‘ Sharh al-Muhadhdhab, 3:495)
The Hanbali Madhhab
Muwaffaq al-Din Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi (541 – 620 H), the great Hanbali muhaqqiq, said:
مسألة: قال: والرجل والمرأة في ذلك سواء إلا أن المرأة تجمع نفسها فى الركوع والسجود وتجلس متربعة أو تسدل رجليها فتجعلهما في جانب يمينها.
الأصل أن يثبت في حق المرأة من أحكام الصلاة ما يثبت للرجال لأن الخطاب يشملهما، غير أنها خالفته في ترك التجافي لأنها عورة فاستحب لها جمع نفسها ليكون أستر لها، فإنه لا يؤمن أن يبدو منها شيء حال التجافي. وكذلك فى الافتراش.
قال أحمد: والسدل أعجب إلي. واختاره الخلال. قال علي رضي الله عنه: إذا صلت المرأة فلتحتفز ولتضم فخذيها وعن ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما أنه كان يأمر النساء أن يتربعن فى الصلاة
“Ruling: He (i.e. Abu l-Qasim al-Khiraqi al-Hanbali, (d. 334 H)) said: ‘And the man and woman are equal in this (i.e. the description of Salah) except that the woman collects herself when bowing and prostrating and she sits in the tarabbu‘ position (inserting the left foot between the thigh and shin of the right leg) or she practises sadl by placing them both to her right side.’
“The default is that whatever is established for men from the rules of Salah is established with respect to a woman because the address (of the Shari‘ah) encompasses both of them; except that she differs from him in not separating (her limbs) because she is ‘awrah (as established in hadith). Hence, it is preferred for her to collect herself so that it is more concealing for her, because there is no surety that something will not appear from her in the situation of separating (her limbs), and likewise when (sitting in) the iftirash position (i.e. erecting the right foot so the toes point towards the qiblah and sitting on the left foot).
“Ahmad said: ‘Sadl is more appealing to me.’ Al-Khallal preferred this. ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) said: ‘When the woman prays, she should draw (herself) together, and join her thighs,” and (it was narrated) from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that he would order the women to adopt the tarabbu‘ position in Salah.” (Mughni, Dar ‘Alam al-Kutub, 2:258-9)
Imam Ahmad’s son, ‘Abd Allah, narrates:
قلت: كيف تسجد المرأة وكيف تقعد للتشهد؟ قال: كيف كان أستر
“I said (to Imam Ahmad): ‘How does a woman prostrate and how does she sit for Tashahhud?’ He said: ‘However is most concealing (for her).’” (Masa’il al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal Riwayat Ibnihi ‘Abdillah ibn Ahmad, al-Maktab al-Islami, p. 79)
The Maliki Madhhab
Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (d. 386) – known as “little Malik” – stated in his treatise on Maliki fiqh:
وهي في هيئة الصلاة مثله غير أنها تنضم ولا تفرج فخذيها ولا عضديها في جلوسها وسجودها وأمرها كله
“And she (i.e. the woman) in the posture(s) of Salah is like him (i.e. the man), except that she draws (herself) together and she does not part her thighs, nor her upper arms during her sitting, her prostration and her entire affair.”
‘Ali ibn Khalaf al-Manufi al-Maliki’s (857 – 939 H) comments on this passage:
وما ذكره رواية ابن زياد عن مالك وهو خلاف قول ابن القاسم فى المدونة لأنه ساوى بين الرجل والمرأة فى الهيئة
“What he (i.e. Ibn Abi Zayd) stated is the narration of Ibn Ziyad from Malik and it is contrary to the narration of Ibn al-Qasim in al-Mudawwanah because he equated between the man and woman in the posture(s).”
And al-‘Adawi (d. 1189 H) said in his marginalia to this work:
الراجح كلام المصنف الذي هو رواية ابن زياد، ورواية ابن القاسم ضعيف كما هو المفهوم من خليل وشراحه
“The preferred (view) is the opinion of the author (Ibn Abi Zayd) which is the narration of Ibn Ziyad (from Malik); and the narration of Ibn al-Qasim is weak as is understood from (the Mukhtasar of) Khalil and its commentators.”
In summary, there are two views in the Maliki madhhab both narrated from Imam Malik. One, that a woman is exactly the same as a man in the postures of Salah. And the second that a woman differs from him in that she draws herself together and does not separate her limbs in all the postures of Salah. The favoured view of the madhhab is the latter, making it equivalent to the other madhhabs.
Hence, all of the four madhhabs agree that a woman differs from a man in the postures of salah, in that she adopts the positions that are most concealing for.
Shafi'ees are also fuqaha. Hanbalis are also fuqaha.
You talk as if the only fuqaha are your Hanafi scholars. A false premise being used.
Let's accept your statement to be true, that fuqaha are more reliable than muhadditheen.
Are the fuqaha agreed that that hadeeth is authentic and usable? Are they?
What happens when fuqaha disagree?
Yes, indeed they're and in case of differences I respect their research though but prefer imam abu hanifa rh (but in a few cases other imams are followed)
Certainly not but if you put this condition that liqa is essential then you will have to reject all the books of rijal which don't abide by this condition
I need brief and correct method to do salah for women...pls anybody help me...
Asalaamualaykum:
In essence All the madhabs and non-madhabs all perform Salaah correctly.
If you learn to pray according to a madhab or non-madhab, the bottom line is no scholar has plucked willy nilly methods from their desires. All madhab and non-madhab scholars to their best ability from both Quran and Sunnah has dedicated their lives into bringing that Salaah to us all.
The truth of the situation is that no one in 2017 can say I jumped in time machine, went back, saw it with my own eyes, even asked our beloved Rasool the correct method, jumped back in the time machine and "Here you are" !!! All evidences provided are all subjective as we only left either a text proof or a sanad proof of the method.
If you divulge into the correct method !!! You will have to learn the principles of each madhab and non madhab under scholars (That will take many years) and then hopefully you might just crack the enigma code after many years...Question is.......What method will you use during all the years spent into investigating the methods ?????
Just go any method....and PRAY THAT SALAAH !!! At least you will get rewarded for effort rather than missing the salaah because you were on some quest trying to find out which is correct and missed all your salaah in that time.
Don't get involved in scholar bashing and qualifying or un-qualifying issues that you yourself don't know the true reality about.
In essence All the madhabs and non-madhabs all perform Salaah correctly.
If you learn to pray according to a madhab or non-madhab, the bottom line is no scholar has plucked willy nilly methods from their desires. All madhab and non-madhab scholars to their best ability from both Quran and Sunnah has dedicated their lives into bringing that Salaah to us all.
The truth of the situation is that no one in 2017 can say I jumped in time machine, went back, saw it with my own eyes, even asked our beloved Rasool the correct method, jumped back in the time machine and "Here you are" !!! All evidences provided are all subjective as we only left either a text proof or a sanad proof of the method.
If you divulge into the correct method !!! You will have to learn the principles of each madhab and non madhab under scholars (That will take many years) and then hopefully you might just crack the enigma code after many years...Question is.......What method will you use during all the years spent into investigating the methods ?????
Just go any method....and PRAY THAT SALAAH !!! At least you will get rewarded for effort rather than missing the salaah because you were on some quest trying to find out which is correct and missed all your salaah in that time.
Don't get involved in scholar bashing and qualifying or un-qualifying issues that you yourself don't know the true reality about.
Yes, indeed they're and in case of differences I respect their research though but prefer imam abu hanifa rh (but in a few cases other imams are followed)
How can you, as a layman, prefer one over another?
And so I was right in calling him your Imaam.
Why do you hide facts? Is winning a debate really important to you? Is it an ego issue?
I am sorry to break it to you, but he has been declared weak in hadeeth by the majority of muhadditheen. If you so want we can discuss this and I can prove what I have said.
let me research this more brother and i'll get back soon!
Your a jahil and liar.
This statement of imam shafi rh you tried to prove fabricated without quoting the name of book or muhaddis, now hiding your face
The pot calling the kettle black.
You know what I love about fanatical muqallids, they can't tell the difference between quotes and when cornered with their own challenges they get emotional.
Let's quote the quote I posted, shall we. I have waited all these days to see if you can post the quote you were on about but its obvious you only copy paste from chosen websites.
This shall highlight the pot calling the kettle black.
So, what I posted said:
format_quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Now I further highlight your ignorance. No one is a child of Abu Hanifah in fiqh. Let me guide you to the fabricated quote you used.
“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 39 quoting from “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 346:
“Ash-Shafi’i said: “Attach yourself to Abu Hanifah and his students, because people are dependant in Fiqh to Abu Hanifah”
Answer: the narration contains the liar Ahmad Al-Hamani.
Also quoting from “Manaqib Abu Hanifah” of Al-Kurdari p 99 that Ash-Shafi’i said that he did not see anyone more Faqih than Abu Hanifah.
Answer: This narration also comes from “Tarikh Baghdad” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 346, and one of its narrators, Zakariya ibn Abdur Rahman is Majhul.
And that sent you on fire and you came back with a layman, typical:
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
Can you give scan pages where these narrators have been declared weak and whose statement is this?
Then I asked you to give a scanned copy of what you keep posting and all you could muster up was the typical, layman
Jaahil, Liar.
You amuse me. I smile at everything you post.
I know you do not know the difference between quotes. Nor do you have the skills to research an issue independently. Instead, for you it is all copy and paste from here and there.
So, Ill give you screenshots of one of my quotes with the liar in it and then leave you from now on as you have shown that research isn't your strong point. Actually, taqliid is your strong point.
Enjoy.
Oh and I got that quote from here which can read if you want. Quite clearly the information of the author was spot on and authentic as I have found you the scans of what he said.
You know what I love about fanatical muqallids, they can't tell the difference between quotes and when cornered with their own challenges they get emotional.
Let's quote the quote I posted, shall we. I have waited all these days to see if you can post the quote you were on about but its obvious you only copy paste from chosen websites.
This shall highlight the pot calling the kettle black.
So, what I posted said:
And that sent you on fire and you came back with a layman, typical:
Then I asked you to give a scanned copy of what you keep posting and all you could muster up was the typical, layman
Jaahil, Liar.
You amuse me. I smile at everything you post.
I know you do not know the difference between quotes. Nor do you have the skills to research an issue independently. Instead, for you it is all copy and paste from here and there.
So, Ill give you screenshots of one of my quotes with the liar in it and then leave you from now on as you have shown that research isn't your strong point. Actually, taqliid is your strong point.
Enjoy.
Oh and I got that quote from here which can read if you want. Quite clearly the information of the author was spot on and authentic as I have found you the scans of what he said.
Al-Albaanee concludes his discussion in ad-Da`eefah by saying, “so we conclude with the words of adh-Dhahabee in ‘Siyar A`laam an-Nubulaa’ [5/288/1], ‘his being an Imaam in fiqh and its fine points is accepted and there is no doubt in this…’”
We were discussing about his fiqh and not as a narrator of hadith.
When muhaddidsin didn't take his hadith then what's the point of discussing this issue?
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] it says they have to know the status of hadiths; i have also read that they have to know all the hadith narrators biography rather intimately too so far from it being erroneous, this is what all ahlus sunnah scholars will say
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