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Variant Korans-

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    Variant Korans- (OP)


    IN 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a, in Yemen, laborers working in a loft between the structure's inner and outer roofs stumbled across a remarkable gravesite, although they did not realize it at the time. Their ignorance was excusable: mosques do not normally house graves, and this site contained no tombstones, no human remains, no funereal jewelry. It contained nothing more, in fact, than an unappealing mash of old parchment and paper documents -- damaged books and individual pages of Arabic text, fused together by centuries of rain and dampness, gnawed into over the years by rats and insects. Intent on completing the task at hand, the laborers gathered up the manuscripts, pressed them into some twenty potato sacks, and set them aside on the staircase of one of the mosque's minarets, where they were locked away -- and where they would probably have been forgotten once again, were it not for Qadhi Isma'il al-Akwa', then the president of the Yemeni Antiquities Authority, who realized the potential importance of the find. Discuss this article in Post & Riposte.

    Al-Akwa' sought international assistance in examining and preserving the fragments, and in 1979 managed to interest a visiting German scholar, who in turn persuaded the German government to organize and fund a restoration project. Soon after the project began, it became clear that the hoard was a fabulous example of what is sometimes referred to as a "paper grave" -- in this case the resting place for, among other things, tens of thousands of fragments from close to a thousand different parchment codices of the Koran, the Muslim holy scripture. In some pious Muslim circles it is held that worn-out or damaged copies of the Koran must be removed from circulation; hence the idea of a grave, which both preserves the sanctity of the texts being laid to rest and ensures that only complete and unblemished editions of the scripture will be read.

    Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam's first two centuries -- they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What's more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.

    The mainly secular effort to reinterpret the Koran -- in part based on textual evidence such as that provided by the Yemeni fragments -- is disturbing and offensive to many Muslims, just as attempts to reinterpret the Bible and the life of Jesus are disturbing and offensive to many conservative Christians. Nevertheless, there are scholars, Muslims among them, who feel that such an effort, which amounts essentially to placing the Koran in history, will provide fuel for an Islamic revival of sorts -- a reappropriation of tradition, a going forward by looking back. Thus far confined to scholarly argument, this sort of thinking can be nonetheless very powerful and -- as the histories of the Renaissance and the Reformation demonstrate -- can lead to major social change. The Koran, after all, is currently the world's most ideologically influential text.

    Looking at the Fragments

    THE first person to spend a significant amount of time examining the Yemeni fragments, in 1981, was Gerd-R. Puin, a specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Koranic paleography based at Saarland University, in Saarbrücken, Germany. Puin, who had been sent by the German government to organize and oversee the restoration project, recognized the antiquity of some of the parchment fragments, and his preliminary inspection also revealed unconventional verse orderings, minor textual variations, and rare styles of orthography and artistic embellishment. Enticing, too, were the sheets of the scripture written in the rare and early Hijazi Arabic script: pieces of the earliest Korans known to exist, they were also palimpsests -- versions very clearly written over even earlier, washed-off versions. What the Yemeni Korans seemed to suggest, Puin began to feel, was an evolving text rather than simply the Word of God as revealed in its entirety to the Prophet Muhammad in the seventh century A.D.

    Koran Fragments
    Yemeni Koran Fragments,
    as they were found in 1972.
    Photograph by Ursula Dreibholz

    Since the early 1980s more than 15,000 sheets of the Yemeni Korans have painstakingly been flattened, cleaned, treated, sorted, and assembled; they now sit ("preserved for another thousand years," Puin says) in Yemen's House of Manuscripts, awaiting detailed examination. That is something the Yemeni authorities have seemed reluctant to allow, however. "They want to keep this thing low-profile, as we do too, although for different reasons," Puin explains. "They don't want attention drawn to the fact that there are Germans and others working on the Korans. They don't want it made public that there is work being done at all, since the Muslim position is that everything that needs to be said about the Koran's history was said a thousand years ago."

    To date just two scholars have been granted extensive access to the Yemeni fragments: Puin and his colleague H.-C. Graf von Bothmer, an Islamic-art historian also based at Saarland University. Puin and Von Bothmer have published only a few tantalizingly brief articles in scholarly publications on what they have discovered in the Yemeni fragments. They have been reluctant to publish partly because until recently they were more concerned with sorting and classifying the fragments than with systematically examining them, and partly because they felt that the Yemeni authorities, if they realized the possible implications of the discovery, might refuse them further access. Von Bothmer, however, in 1997 finished taking more than 35,000 microfilm pictures of the fragments, and has recently brought the pictures back to Germany. This means that soon Von Bothmer, Puin, and other scholars will finally have a chance to scrutinize the texts and to publish their findings freely -- a prospect that thrills Puin. "So many Muslims have this belief that everything between the two covers of the Koran is just God's unaltered word," he says. "They like to quote the textual work that shows that the Bible has a history and did not fall straight out of the sky, but until now the Koran has been out of this discussion. The only way to break through this wall is to prove that the Koran has a history too. The Sana'a fragments will help us to do this."

    Puin is not alone in his enthusiasm. "The impact of the Yemeni manuscripts is still to be felt," says Andrew Rippin, a professor of religious studies at the University of Calgary, who is at the forefront of Koranic studies today. "Their variant readings and verse orders are all very significant. Everybody agrees on that. These manuscripts say that the early history of the Koranic text is much more of an open question than many have suspected: the text was less stable, and therefore had less authority, than has always been claimed."

    Copyediting God

    BY the standards of contemporary biblical scholarship, most of the questions being posed by scholars like Puin and Rippin are rather modest; outside an Islamic context, proposing that the Koran has a history and suggesting that it can be interpreted metaphorically are not radical steps. But the Islamic context -- and Muslim sensibilities -- cannot be ignored. "To historicize the Koran would in effect delegitimize the whole historical experience of the Muslim community," says R. Stephen Humphreys, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of California at Santa Barbara. "The Koran is the charter for the community, the document that called it into existence. And ideally -- though obviously not always in reality -- Islamic history has been the effort to pursue and work out the commandments of the Koran in human life. If the Koran is a historical document, then the whole Islamic struggle of fourteen centuries is effectively meaningless."

    The orthodox Muslim view of the Koran as self-evidently the Word of God, perfect and inimitable in message, language, style, and form, is strikingly similar to the fundamentalist Christian notion of the Bible's "inerrancy" and "verbal inspiration" that is still common in many places today. The notion was given classic expression only a little more than a century ago by the biblical scholar John William Burgon.
    The Bible is none other than the voice of Him that sitteth upon the Throne! Every Book of it, every Chapter of it, every Verse of it, every word of it, every syllable of it ... every letter of it, is the direct utterance of the Most High!Not all the Christians think this way about the Bible, however, and in fact, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam (1981) points out, "the closest analogue in Christian belief to the role of the Kur'an in Muslim belief is not the Bible, but Christ." If Christ is the Word of God made flesh, the Koran is the Word of God made text, and questioning its sanctity or authority is thus considered an outright attack on Islam -- as Salman Rushdie knows all too well.

    Oldest Koran
    A page from perhaps the world's
    oldest extant Koran, from before
    750 A.D. Ultraviolet light reveals
    even earlier Koranic writing
    underneath. Photograph by
    Gerd-R. Puin.
    The prospect of a Muslim backlash has not deterred the critical-historical study of the Koran, as the existence of the essays in The Origins of the Koran (1998) demonstrate. Even in the aftermath of the Rushdie affair the work continues: In 1996 the Koranic scholar Günter Lüling wrote in The Journal of Higher Criticism about "the wide extent to which both the text of the Koran and the learned Islamic account of Islamic origins have been distorted, a deformation unsuspectingly accepted by Western Islamicists until now." In 1994 the journal Jerusalem Studies in Arabic and Islam published a posthumous study by Yehuda D. Nevo, of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, detailing seventh- and eighth-century religious inscriptions on stones in the Negev Desert which, Nevo suggested, pose "considerable problems for the traditional Muslim account of the history of Islam." That same year, and in the same journal, Patricia Crone, a historian of early Islam currently based at the Institute for Advanced Study, in Princeton, New Jersey, published an article in which she argued that elucidating problematic passages in the Koranic text is likely to be made possible only by "abandoning the conventional account of how the Qur'an was born." And since 1991 James Bellamy, of the University of Michigan, has proposed in the Journal of the American Oriental Society a series of "emendations to the text of the Koran" -- changes that from the orthodox Muslim perspective amount to copyediting God.


    "A Macabre Farce"

    THE Koran is a text, a literary text, and the only way to understand, explain, and analyze it is through a literary approach," Abu Zaid says. "This is an essential theological issue." For expressing views like this in print -- in essence, for challenging the idea that the Koran must be read literally as the absolute and unchanging Word of God -- Abu Zaid was in 1995 officially branded an apostate, a ruling that in 1996 was upheld by Egypt's highest court. The court then proceeded, on the grounds of an Islamic law forbidding the marriage of an apostate to a Muslim, to order Abu Zaid to divorce his wife, Ibtihal Yunis (a ruling that the shocked and happily married Yunis described at the time as coming "like a blow to the head with a brick").

    Abu Zaid steadfastly maintains that he is a pious Muslim, but contends that the Koran's manifest content -- for example, the often archaic laws about the treatment of women for which Islam is infamous -- is much less important than its complex, regenerative, and spiritually nourishing latent content. The orthodox Islamic view, Abu Zaid claims, is stultifying; it reduces a divine, eternal, and dynamic text to a fixed human interpretation with no more life and meaning than "a trinket ... a talisman ... or an ornament."

    For a while Abu Zaid remained in Egypt and sought to refute the charges of apostasy, but in the face of death threats and relentless public harassment he fled with his wife from Cairo to Holland, calling the whole affair "a macabre farce." Sheikh Youssef al-Badri, the cleric whose preachings inspired much of the opposition to Abu Zaid, was exultant. "We are not terrorists; we have not used bullets or machine guns, but we have stopped an enemy of Islam from poking fun at our religion.... No one will even dare to think about harming Islam again."

    Old Koran
    From the Yemeni Hoard: probably a ninth- or tenth-century Koran. Photograph by Gerd-R. Puin.

    Abu Zaid seems to have been justified in fearing for his life and fleeing: in 1992 the Egyptian journalist Farag Foda was assassinated by Islamists for his critical writings about Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, and in 1994 the Nobel Prize-winning novelist Naguib Mahfouz was stabbed for writing, among other works, the allegorical Children of Gabalawi (1959) -- a novel, structured like the Koran, that presents "heretical" conceptions of God and the Prophet Muhammad.

    Deviating from the orthodox interpretation of the Koran, says the Algerian Mohammed Arkoun, a professor emeritus of Islamic thought at the University of Paris, is "a very sensitive business" with major implications. "Millions and millions of people refer to the Koran daily to explain their actions and to justify their aspirations," Arkoun says. "This scale of reference is much larger than it has ever been before."

  2. #61
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
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    Re: Variant Korans-

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    Where do you face these questions? I don't think you should be attempting to debate non-muslims on forums without having already studied Islam properly.

    Variant Korans-

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    Re: Variant Korans-

    Guess what Ansar?I don't think that and the Quran and Orientalists book can be found in Bangladesh.I checked in one shop and couldn't find it.tho I am still searching......
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text
    I'm not sure why people continued in this thread to deny that there was any changes, but the proof is there. It has been changed some.
    And big deal if it was changed a bit. It is to be expected that there would be some differences over such a long time of people copying it into a new book.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    ^Saying that Quran has been changed means that the copy accepted to be the official Quran was changed. But it wasn't!

    Just because someone had a copy of the Quran that is different to the official doesn't mean the official is wrong. It means that the person made a mistake in his own copy (Or it could mean so many other innocent things, as details in Ansar's reply).

    But the OFFICIAL one was NOT changed!
    Last edited by Malaikah; 01-16-2007 at 08:23 AM.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah View Post
    ^Saying that Quran has been changed means that the copy accepted to be the official Quran was changed. But it wasn't!

    Just because someone had a copy of the Quran that is different to the official doesn't mean the official is wrong. It means that the person made a mistake in his own copy (Or it could mean so many other innocent things, as details in Ansar's reply).

    But the OFFICIAL one was NOT changed!
    So why preserve a copy with mistakes in a document grave?
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver View Post
    So why preserve a copy with mistakes in a document grave?
    Because in Islam we believe we must either destroy, or bury something with Quranic text, instead of merely throwing it away, where it can be disrespected, stepped on, become dirty etc...
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by seeker_of_ilm View Post
    Because in Islam we believe we must either destroy, or bury something with Quranic text, instead of merely throwing it away, where it can be disrespected, stepped on, become dirty etc...
    But if it was known to contain writings that were different, then it is not sacred. And why keep something that is not the 'true Quran' in the mosque? Wouldn't that be reserved for retired copies of the 'true' Quran?
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver View Post
    But if it was known to contain writings that were different, then it is not sacred. And why keep something that is not the 'true Quran' in the mosque? Wouldn't that be reserved for retired copies of the 'true' Quran?
    Firstly, people had written copies of the Quran before the official copy was complied into one book. These might have been written in different Arabic dialects (because not all arabs understood th dialect the Quran is written in) or they might have just been chapters from here and there but not in any particular order, written for the persons own personal reasons, with footnotes and what not. For more reasons refer to the first article in Ansars first post.

    When the official copy was made, all other copies were to be destroyed, whether they contained mistakes or not, because it forced everyone to now go and get an official copy of the Quran and any mistakes that might have been in their unauthorized, personal copies would be disposed of.

    Lastly, just because they contain mistakes or footnotes (which btw not all of them did because ALL copies were destroyed whether or not they matched the original), overall there were still the Quran and still had to be disposed of properly (by burning/burial/smudging the ink etc)
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver View Post
    I'm not sure why people continued in this thread to deny that there was any changes, but the proof is there. It has been changed some.
    And big deal if it was changed a bit. It is to be expected that there would be some differences over such a long time of people copying it into a new book.

    Where, sorry, I am abit slow, please point me towards it.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post

    Where, sorry, I am abit slow, please point me towards it.
    In the article provided in the first post.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah View Post
    Firstly, people had written copies of the Quran before the official copy was complied into one book. These might have been written in different Arabic dialects (because not all arabs understood th dialect the Quran is written in) or they might have just been chapters from here and there but not in any particular order, written for the persons own personal reasons, with footnotes and what not. For more reasons refer to the first article in Ansars first post.

    When the official copy was made, all other copies were to be destroyed, whether they contained mistakes or not, because it forced everyone to now go and get an official copy of the Quran and any mistakes that might have been in their unauthorized, personal copies would be disposed of.

    Lastly, just because they contain mistakes or footnotes (which btw not all of them did because ALL copies were destroyed whether or not they matched the original), overall there were still the Quran and still had to be disposed of properly (by burning/burial/smudging the ink etc)
    Much of what is discussed here is similiar to the christian Bible. Muslims talk about different versions of the Bible, but it is different dialects only. King James version says the same thing as English Standard version, only in a different dialect. The words are different, but say exactly the same thing. I assume that is what is being said in this thread about the Quran being in different dialects as well.
    So the Quran really is not immune to the same types of accusations that muslims make against the Bible.
    ALL copies were destroyed whether or not they matched the original
    How do you know this? Is there proof of this? A link perhaps? Thanks.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    ^You are wrong, it is NOT the same. The easiest way to prove why is that the protestants have 8 book less in their version of the bible than the catholic's do.

    This does not exist in Islam. Your points are all totally invalid. Take the time to actual read Ansars posts and that should be clear.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah View Post
    ^You are wrong, it is NOT the same. The easiest way to prove why is that the protestants have 8 book less in their version of the bible than the catholic's do.

    This does not exist in Islam. Your points are all totally invalid. Take the time to actual read Ansars posts and that should be clear.
    I have read this thread, including Ansar's posts. Honestly, I only see excuses. Just my opinion of course. But nothing here is convincing.
    An arguement can seem very convincing when you want to believe, as in the case of a muslim reading Ansar's posts. But when a person doesn't care one way or the other, as in my case, one can be objective, and not convinced.

    No disrespect to Ansar, I've read many of his posts. He is a good debater. But a person can win a debate and still not be right. It just means they have excellent debate skills.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver View Post
    I have read this thread, including Ansar's posts. Honestly, I only see excuses. Just my opinion of course. But nothing here is convincing.
    An arguement can seem very convincing when you want to believe, as in the case of a muslim reading Ansar's posts. But when a person doesn't care one way or the other, as in my case, one can be objective, and not convinced.

    No disrespect to Ansar, I've read many of his posts. He is a good debater. But a person can win a debate and still not be right. It just means they have excellent debate skills.
    but Silent, saying that doesn't make any point. or disprove anyone else's reply.

    perhaps you could answer her points more methodically....

    in short today you don't see Muslims reading different qurans do you? or arguing that one quran is more authentic than another... there is a consensus which is backed by verified chains of narration with regards to the quran that is unanimously agreed to.
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver View Post
    Much of what is discussed here is similiar to the christian Bible. Muslims talk about different versions of the Bible, but it is different dialects only. King James version says the same thing as English Standard version, only in a different dialect. The words are different, but say exactly the same thing. I assume that is what is being said in this thread about the Quran being in different dialects as well.
    So the Quran really is not immune to the same types of accusations that muslims make against the Bible.
    Actually you are mistaken, if I have understood your post correctly that is.

    The King James Version and the English Standard versions are different not because one translates a word as 'veichle' and the other as 'donkey' or such minor details.

    Rather, since I am not familier in totality with the English Standard Version, I will emphesise what the Revised Standard Version states, if you read the preface, you will see that the Revised Standard Version claims that the King James version was based upon late manuscripts and have grevious errors such as to call for revision, in my own words. We are not talking about dialect, but are talking about words which effect the meaning and are not copyst errors that have been inserted and ommited. The Manuscripts based to make the translations vary.

    Even in the two above versions you have mentioned such can be evident, take a look if you may:

    The King James Version, at 1 John chapter 1 verses, 6-7-8 states:


    6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

    7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

    Whislt the English Standard Version, at 1 John chapter 1 verses, 6-7-8 states:


    6This is he who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

    7For there are three that testify:

    8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.

    In case it was missed, the whole of verse 7 from the King James Version is ommited, i.e. this For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And in the ESV the 8th verse is split into two.

    Why is this, because according to the NIV footnotes verse 7 is not found within any manuscripts before the 16th Century thus shattering it's credability.

    This is a small example of curroption, now this is not something I say to 'win' a debate, or sound smart but just carrying forth what I have learnt. Thus if you want to show me how a dialect can insert a whole verse which has a fundamental role in doctrine then feel free to do so.

    I also would like to thank you for pointing me towards the source and I will read it G-d willing.

    Source for quotes, Bible Gateway

    Eesa.
    Variant Korans-

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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  21. #76
    brenton's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    ^Really well prepared response.

    I think there is an analogy between the Qur'an and the Christian Bible, but it isn't "exactly the same thing."

    Between ancient versions and today there are variants in both. There are translations of both. There are text critical schools in both Islam and Christian Bible scholars.

    But the %/amount of variants in the Qur'an is quite small compared with the New Testament. The Sana'a scraps in Yemen are quite close to today (33AH-58AH/645-690CE). The New Testament's earliest manuscripts are 125-150 years after writing (there are some fragments earlier, about 25 years after, but very few). The insriptions at the Dome of the Rock and the fragments occur for the Qur'an within 65 years of Muhammad's death.
    Even the most critical scholars of Qur'an agree that there was a Qur'an by 700CE, and many non-Muslim scholars think the Qur'an is largely what Muhammad taught. Not so the New Testament. While a number of scholars believe the New Testament was completed as the authors state and by about 95CE, critical scholars doubt 3-6 of Paul's letters--putting the Pastoral letters as late as 70-100 years after Paul--both letters of Peter, Jude and James. Acts is not viewed as accurate history, and the gospels are not viewed as apostolic (although they are really anonymous). The Qur'an is much different.
    For the New Testament there are hundreds of interesting variants and dozens of significant ones. Besides spelling and grammar and the seven systems of reading Qur'an (the Qur'an critical school is more like the Hebrew Bible schools), the differences are few.

    I just don't see who the New Testament & Qur'an compare. Even their composition is different: one man claiming to recite the words of God vs. dozens of men and women working with apostolic writings and oral sayings, forming them as a community into books for the community.
    And the "Canon" is different. Within a generation of Muhammad, Uthman standardized the text. There has never been a total standardization of the text, and it took 3 centuries to recognize what the community saw as canonical in Christian experience.

    Much different things.
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  22. #77
    Umar001's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by brenton View Post
    ^Really well prepared response.
    Praise be to The Almighty for any good, and I am very happy that you did not take offence to it.

    format_quote Originally Posted by brenton View Post
    I think there is an analogy between the Qur'an and the Christian Bible, but it isn't "exactly the same thing."

    Between ancient versions and today there are variants in both. There are translations of both. There are text critical schools in both Islam and Christian Bible scholars.

    Maybe you can just clarify the variants of which you speak of, and what versions also, I think that maybe the idea of variants is something I am misunderstanding.


    format_quote Originally Posted by brenton View Post
    But the %/amount of variants in the Qur'an is quite small compared with the New Testament. The Sana'a scraps in Yemen are quite close to today (33AH-58AH/645-690CE). The New Testament's earliest manuscripts are 125-150 years after writing (there are some fragments earlier, about 25 years after, but very few). The insriptions at the Dome of the Rock and the fragments occur for the Qur'an within 65 years of Muhammad's death.
    Even the most critical scholars of Qur'an agree that there was a Qur'an by 700CE, and many non-Muslim scholars think the Qur'an is largely what Muhammad taught. Not so the New Testament. While a number of scholars believe the New Testament was completed as the authors state and by about 95CE, critical scholars doubt 3-6 of Paul's letters--putting the Pastoral letters as late as 70-100 years after Paul--both letters of Peter, Jude and James. Acts is not viewed as accurate history, and the gospels are not viewed as apostolic (although they are really anonymous). The Qur'an is much different.
    For the New Testament there are hundreds of interesting variants and dozens of significant ones. Besides spelling and grammar and the seven systems of reading Qur'an (the Qur'an critical school is more like the Hebrew Bible schools), the differences are few.

    I just don't see who the New Testament & Qur'an compare. Even their composition is different: one man claiming to recite the words of God vs. dozens of men and women working with apostolic writings and oral sayings, forming them as a community into books for the community.
    And the "Canon" is different. Within a generation of Muhammad, Uthman standardized the text. There has never been a total standardization of the text, and it took 3 centuries to recognize what the community saw as canonical in Christian experience.

    Much different things.

    Well this is it, when one understands the difference in revelation, compilement, and preservation then one can come at a better understanding without the need to feel threatned or attack the other religion, I think it is through understanding the fundamental basis of both that one can start to analyse the text and preservation.

    Thank you for your insight and I await your reply.

    Regards, Eesa.
    Variant Korans-

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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  23. #78
    brenton's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    I don't know of any "versians" of Qur'an, but there are variants according to the Islamic histories I've read. I guess I don't understand your question.
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    lolwatever's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by brenton View Post
    I don't know of any "versians" of Qur'an, but there are variants according to the Islamic histories I've read. I guess I don't understand your question.
    heya brenton

    perhaps you're referring to the variants in recitation? yes there's 7 ways to recite the quran, and they have all been directly confirmed by the prophet.

    It's not like they're 7 diff qurans (the way there's x diff bibles), but seven ways of reciting it... so the words are teh same but the vowels on a efw words are different as well as the way they're pronounced..

    all the best
    Variant Korans-

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    ليس بعلم ما حواه القمطر، ماالعلم إلا ما وعاه الصدر
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  26. #80
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    Re: Variant Korans-

    format_quote Originally Posted by brenton View Post
    I don't know of any "versians" of Qur'an, but there are variants according to the Islamic histories I've read. I guess I don't understand your question.

    Between ancient versions and today there are variants in both. There are translations of both. There are text critical schools in both Islam and Christian Bible scholars.

    Maybe you can just clarify the variants of which you speak of, and what versions also, I think that maybe the idea of variants is something I am misunderstanding.

    I think this is what I was saying, what I mean was that when you said, 'between ancient versions and today there are variants in both' I understood it to mean that by 'both' you meant, both The Bible and the Qu'ran.

    So from there I asked what did you mean by variants in that sentance.

    Sorry if I was unclear

    Eesa.
    Variant Korans-

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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