A bomb goes off in a marketplace in Jerusalem. A suicide bomber launches himself into a bus full of women and children in Tel Aviv. Foreign tourists get massacred at a holiday resort in Luxor, Egypt. Villages upon villages get annihilated in Algeria. The list of events worldwide which have come to symbolise the 'Islamic terror' are endless. From the times in the 70's and 80's when Pan Am and TWA aeroplanes would be highjacked, to the mid 80's in war torn Lebanon where Americans and Europeans would be held as hostages for years; all such incidents have come to be identified with the religion of Islam. Such incidents from past and present have undoubtedly affected Muslims worldwide and more so in the West. Any Muslim, who wants to practice his/her religion and expresses the pious desire to live under the banner of Islam, is labelled a fundamentalist or extremist. Any Muslim man who walks down a busy street in London or Paris (and Paris moreso) with a beard and a scarf on his head, is looked upon as being a terrorist who's probably got an AK47 stashed somewhere on his person. Muslim women who are veiled can't go anywhere in the Western world without being taunted as being oppressed or being mad (for covering up). However, are such beliefs and opinions about Islam really justified?
Exploding the myth
One of the many short comings which has arisen in the West, is judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this, segments of Western society have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done - judge a religion by the conduct of its people - then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques . Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that the Western world is foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam. So what is the reality of Islam? How does one dispel the myths which have been created and spread so viciously? The only way to examine Islam is to simply examine its belief system. Look at its sources, the Qur'an and Sunna, and see what they have to say. This is the way to find the truth about what Islam says about terror, terrorism and terrorists. One who is sincerely searching for the truth, will do it no other way. The very name Islam comes from the Arabic root word 'salama' which means peace. Islam is a religion which is based upon achieving peace through the submission to the will of Allah. Thus, by this very simple linguistic definition, one can ascertain as to what the nature of this religion is. If such a religion is based on the notion of peace, then how is it that so many acts done by its adherents are contrary to peace? The answer is simple. Such actions, if not sanctioned by the religion, have no place with it. They are not Islamic and should not be thought of as Islamic.
Jihad
The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression. However, it must be said that the meaning of jihad, as a 'holy war', is something which is totally foreign and not from Islam. If anything, such a description belongs more so to Christianity and its adherents. It was terms like this which were used to justify the slaughter and pillage of towns and cities during the crusades by the Christians. By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (saws) said:
"The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic"
In the Qur'an, Allah also says:
"So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur'an)" (Surah Al-Furqan 25:52)
By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allah is full of bounty to the worlds"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251)
Such would be the corruption on this Earth if there had never been a combative jihad that Allah says:
"For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is mentioned much, would surely have been pulled down. Indeed Allah will help those who help His (cause). Truly Allah is All strong, All mighty"
(Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)
This combative jihad being both defensive and offensive, is something which is commanded by Allah upon the Muslims. Through this command the oppressed and weak are rescued from the tyranny of the world:
"And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors and raise for us from you one who will protect and raise for us from you one who will help"(Surah An-Nisa 4:75)
Anyone who knows the early history of Islam, will know that all those nations and empires which came under the fold of Islam were indeed previously oppressed. When the companions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) went out for the offensive jihad against the Egyptians, the Persians and the Romans, we find that the people did not resist against them at all. Rather, they accepted Islam on such a scale, that it is inconceivable that the jihad of Islam could be anything other then a liberation for these people; a liberation from centuries of tyranny. In fact, with the Byzantine Egyptians and the people of Spain, the Muslims were even beckoned to come and liberate these lands from the oppression of their kings. This is the glorious track record of the Muslim jihad. Compare this with the brutal track record of warfare in the Western world over the centuries. From the crusades against the Muslims to the days of colonial warfare, the Western world has killed, destroyed and plundered everything which has come in its way. Even today this merciless killing goes on by the Western nations. While claiming to be about world peace and security, Western nations are ready to bomb innocent civilians at the drop of a hat. The classic example of this is the recent bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan. Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But
"… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)
The hypocrisy of the West is indeed astounding.
By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)
Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) "forbade the killing of women and children" . Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"
(Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)
After reading such passages from the Qur'an and knowing about what Islam commands and prohibits in jihad, the rules of warfare are given a new meaning; a meaning of justice. How sad it is then, that whilst Islam is condemned for striking terror into the hearts of the people, the likes of the Serbs, the Indian army in Kashmir and the Israeli soldiers in Palestine are left untarnished for the atrocities they have committed in the name of warfare.
So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allah's path? From what has already been stated above, it can be deduced that this is not from the religion. However, unfortunately many Muslims have taken suicide bombing as being a virtuous act by which one receives reward. This could not be further from the truth. The Prophet (saws) said: "Those who go to extremes are destroyed" . Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions. Unfortunately, today (some misguided) Muslims believe that such acts are paving the way for an Islamic revival and a return to the rule of Islam's glorious law. However, we fail to bear in mind that the Prophet (saws) said:
"Do not be delighted by the action of anyone, until you see how he ends up"
So, for example what is the end of a suicide bomber in Palestine?, a leg here, an arm there. Massive retaliation by the Israeli's in the West Bank and Gaza. More Muslims killed and persecuted. How can we be delighted with such an end? What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said:
"He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell"
Some are under the misconception that by killing oneself for an Islamic cause, one commits an act which deserves Paradise. Once when a man killed himself, the Prophet (saws) said: "He is a dweller of the Fire". When the people were surprised at this, the Prophet (saws) said:
"A person performs the deeds which to the people appears to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the dwellers of the Fire"
"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind"
(Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)
Thus, all other types of extremities such as hostage taking, hijacking and planting bombs in public places, are clearly forbidden in Islam.
The Media
By going through the teachings of Islam, it is clear that such a religion has only come to benefit mankind - not to destroy it. So why is there so much hatred for this noble religion in the West? The answer is simple, the media. It is the Jewish influenced media of the West which has portrayed Islam to be something that it is not. During the 70's and 80's when the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) were carrying out daring highjacks on the worlds airways, the media in the West portrayed it as being Islamic. When the Shi'ite suicide bombers of the 80's were causing so much havoc in the Lebanon and in the Gulf region, the media in the West portrayed it as a part of Islam. However, it is known by the heads of the media that the likes of the PLO were not an Islamic organisation, and that according to Islam, Shi'ites are outside the fold of Islam . Yet such facts are never portrayed by a media which seeks to cover the truth of this religion. A number of years ago, when the Oklahoma City bomb went off, a headline in one of the newspapers, 'Today' , summed up this attitude. With a picture of a fire fighter holding a dead child in his arms, the headline read: "In The Name of Islam" Time has of course proven that this bigoted assumption was incorrect, as Timothy McVeigh, a right wing radical now faces the death penalty for the crime . Likewise the bombs which went off in the Paris metro in 1995, were also blamed on Muslim fanatics. It has now emerged that the Algerian secret service who having routinely bribed many European journalists and MPs, were actually behind it. The desire to throw a veil over Islam is immense by these people:
"They intend to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will complete His light even though the disbelievers hate (it)"
(Surah As-Saff 61:8)
Whilst trying to destroy Islam through this instrument of the media, the Jews clearly try to portray an image of themselves as being the oppressed people. Every year, we are reminded as to how many Jews perished under the Nazis in World War II. We are made to feel sorry for these same people who have gone on to commit so many crimes upon the Palestinian people. Some may say that this is a racist and biased viewpoint. But we say; If this media was not run and orchestrated by the Jews and was truly neutral, then why are Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, two former Israeli prime ministers, not held aloft as being terrorists? Anyone who knows about the history of the Palestinian occupation will tell you that these two men were members of the Stern Gang and Irgun, two notorious Jewish terror groups who killed many innocent people . If this media was truly impartial, then why does it not tell about the extent of the Israeli bombardment and illegal occupation of Southern Lebanon and its people? And if this media really had nothing against the religion of Allah, then why does it not inform the people that every day hundreds are entering the religion of Islam? Such things will never be highlighted in the Western media, simply because to do so would be against their very interests.
With such immense pressure against it, it is indeed a blessing from Allah that Islam goes from strength to strength. It continues to grow faster then any other religion in the Western world, conquering the hearts and minds of thousands. All this should not even surprise us though, for Allah has promised us that this religion will prevail:
"It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, so that He may make it victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers detest it"
(Surah As-Saff 61:9)
It is a must that humanity comes towards the religion of Islam. Without it, we will continue to slip down the road of inequity and darkness. With it we can establish a society of justice and peace. Religion of terror? ... no. The way forward? ... yes.
"There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has indeed become distinct from the wrong. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All Hearing, All Knowing"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)
this is exactly why i hate males
read my post and (try to) understand what i mean (although i doubt that very much)
but as ull probably notice in my post- i believe that REAL muslim men who follow the whole Quran and not just the parts that allow them to marry 4 women (something they love very much): these r the real muslims not ppl who claim to be so
so its not very wise (and intelligent) of u to say "muslims" but rather call them in their real names
i was talking about muslims killing other muslims and said that islam doesnt tolerate such action if done intentionaly and there is a special punushment for ppl who do it- beheading (now u didnt need a genius to get that did u?? )
show ur proof and give specific info about: where and when and why??
but the bollom line is- do u think these actions (if they really happened) r islamic?? or just done by ppl who claim to be muslims??
i assure u there r "muslim" rapists but is it wise to say "muslims rape... etc etc"
ill answer in ur place- NO!!!!
Well Sister I read ur post and tried to understand the logic behind ur hatred for men. I dont know that what to say, I have all the sympathies with U,and ur twin out there. But its not at all fair to say that U hate men. The world will be a very tough place to live in if all men would be like what U think of them.
And I think that its hatred inside U which stops U to read any particular post written by a man in proper context. Where I said that any action which I m quoting here done by muslims are Islamic? Even whre I used the word Islam in this thread and pointed my finger at the religion? If u feel that I did, than plz let me know, if u cant,than its okay.
BTW U didnt answer my specific question, is ur action hating men is Islamic? is hatred Islamic?
Well I think that U know about Killing of muslims by muslims in Darfur, I hope U know about gassing of kurds by ppls of Saddam, I hope U know about massacre of muslims in erstwhile East Bengal (Now Bangla Desh) by muslim army, I hope U know about hazara massacre by talibaans. If U dont than plz ask for links, though I m not very good in this job of providing links,but InshAllah I will work overtime to lead U to truth.
To conclude I will request U to get rid of sack of hatred U are bearing on ur shoulder, not all men are alike, just like not all muslims/kuffar are alike.
I m short of time right now, otherwise there is so much to respond to U. but there is always next time InshAllah.
Q. How can a religion such as Islam expect to thrive when it espouses jihad and revenge and all of the things that most of the other religions of the world would deem to be the work of the ‘devil’? Did the perpetrators of the recent terrorist acts expect the praise of Allah at the end of their journey, after having killed so many people? Perhaps the rest of the world should become as tolerant of Islam, as Islam is to the rest of the world.
(Danny ; dano)
Q. The Quran does not describe a peaceful, tolerant religion. The terrorists are not disobeying the holy book. They are following it to the letter. The Quran tells us: “not to make friendship with Jews and Christians” (5:51), “kill the disbelievers wherever we find them” (2:191), “murder them and treat them harshly” (9:123), “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” (9:5). The Quran demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises “If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them” (8:65). This is the bulk of the Quran. You are welcome to counter with a handful of verses like: “There is no compulsion in religion,”, and “To you, your religion; to me mine.”
But for every friendly remark like that, there are 10 calls for killing of Pagans, Jews, and Infidels, and vivid descriptions of how they will suffer in hell (boiling water poured over their heads, clothes cut from fire, etc). Can any reasonable person conclude that the Quran encourages freedom, tolerance, and equal treatment of our brothers?
Don’t get me wrong, the Christians’ Bible has the same proportion of good to bad. Jesus has benefited from 2000 years of good public relations, without a doubt. Let’s stop pretending that any of these “holy books” contain the secret for living a peaceful co-existence and recognise what is the universal truth in the practice of all ethical systems: we, as humans, have the ability to recognise good and evil, and it has nothing to do with what is written in the ancient tomes of wisdom. If all the people of the world were to follow the teachings of the ancient Prophets of their choice ‘to the letter’, we would have a non-stop world-wide holy war.
(Smith)
A. Islam could not have reached through the dormant stage of the past centuries to re-emerge once again as the fastest growing religion on earth today without its concept of Jihad. Yes, it would not have thrived if the Jihad was what you think it is and what some terrorist organisations proclaim. Assuming as you believe that the recent terrorist acts in USA were the work of so-called Muslims or Jihadis, it is obvious that this has driven millions of neutral non-Muslims away from Islam. Yet Jihad is a pious pillar of Islam which has always been attracting millions of human beings to embrace Islam. Let me explain in brief the Islamic concept of war and peace.
The Quran speaks of lifting arms in strictly two situations.
In the first situation, the permission is granted to defend themselves when in a Muslim state, they are attacked by those who had already driven Muslims out of their country for the specific reason that they professed and worshipped one God. Remember, it does not allow a Muslim majority province of a non-Muslim majority country to revolt and demand a separate Muslim state. If Muslims are oppressed in a non-Muslim majority country for their religion (not for social or political conflicts), they are advised to migrate to a Muslim state, instead of taking to arms. But if an independent Muslim state is attacked by an enemy of Islam for their religion, then Quran permits them to defend. See the following order of the Quran.
“Permission (to take up arms) is hereby given to those who are attacked because they have been wronged. Allah has power to grant them victory: those who have been unjustly driven from their homes, only because they said: ‘Our Lord is Allah...”. (22:39-40)
The second situation is when Islam orders an attack instead of a defensive war. When a group of people are oppressed in a country and they are crying for help, Islam orders its followers to go out to fight the oppressor. The relevant order is as under:
“And why should you not fight for the cause of Allah, and for the oppressed men, women and children who say, ‘Deliver us Lord, from this city of wrongdoers, send forth to us a guardian from your presence ; send to us one that will help us” (4:75)
When the believers are attacked, they are given permission to defend, but it has been emphatically made clear that justice should not be a casualty even while fighting. As soon as the attackers pledge to keep away from sedition, the believers are ordered to stop fighting.
“Fight for the sake of Allah those who fight against you but do not transgress. Allah does not love the transgressors. Kill them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. The sedition is worse than carnage. But do not fight them within the precincts of the sacred Mosque unless they attack you there; if they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Fight against them until sedition is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight not except the oppressors” (2:190-93)
The above verses contain one of the verses objected to by Mr. Smith. The act of a self- proclaimed protector of human rights cannot match the balanced teaching of the holy Book you so much despise. In its every above mentioned phrase, there is a check. “...Do not transgress... Allah does not love the transgressors... Do not fight them near the Mosque unless they attack you... If they desist, know that Allah is forgiving, Merciful... But if they desist, fight not except the oppressors...”. Mr. Smith has taken out the sentences from in-between to prove the cruelty of the teachings of the holy Book. Similar is the case of other verses that are quoted out of context. Please consider that these instructions are not the instruction for normal peace times. These are the war time instructions when war is imposed upon the believers. Quran instructs that the war is not declared on every unbeliever. Even during the war with the unbelievers, distinction has to be made in case of those who have treaties with the believers. Treaties have to be honoured. Even with those who impose war upon the believers, instructions are given for a respite from war in the four sacred months.
“Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers, except those who have fully honoured their treaties with you and aided none against you. With these, keep faith until their treaties have run their term. Allah loves the righteous. When the sacred months are over, slay the unbelievers (who are fighting you) wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way. Allah is Forgiving Merciful. (9:4-5)
Above is another of the objected upon (9:5) verse, but in proper context it becomes altogether different from what was projected. To understand the implication of another verse 8:65, that is objected to, you have to read the context from 8:61. The instruction here is to accept a peace proposal even if there is fear of deception from the enemy. Allah gives assurance that if you do so and the enemy deceives in the garb of peace, He will help them against great odds. See the following:
“If they incline to peace, make peace with them and put your trust in Allah. Surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. Should they seek to deceive you, Allah is all sufficient for you... (In that case) rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, you shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred they shall rout a thousand...” (8:61-65) Unless the fighting is imposed upon them, the believers are told to keep away from war even if there is a probability of treachery in the garb of their offer of peace. Can the so-called human ethics of the present Super power match with this?
“If they (the attackers) incline towards peace, make peace with them and put your trust in Allah. Surely He is Hearing, the Knowing. Should they seek to deceive you (do not reject peace on that probability, for) Allah is All-Sufficient for you...” (6:61-62) “...if they keep away from you and cease their hostility and offer you peace, Allah bids you not to harm them”. (4:90)
“If from those who ascribe partners to Allah even one person (during the war) seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah and then (even if he does not embrace Islam), deliver him to his place of safety, for they are men ignorant (from the reality of Islam)”. (9:6)
Qur’an asks the believers not to lose the sense of justice even for the enemies.
“O believers, be dutiful to Allah and bearers of just witness. Do not allow your hatred for other men to turn you away from justice. Deal justly ; justice is nearer to true piety...” (5:8)
Regarding the charge of teaching not to make non-Muslim friends, the short instruction in 5:51 above quoted by Mr. Smith, is governed by the following two verses:
“Let believers not make friends with unbelievers against the (just) interests of the believers...” (2:28)
“Allah does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither made war on your religion nor driven you from your homes or abetted others to do so. Allah loves the equitable. But He forbids you to make friends with those who have fought against you on account of your religion and driven you from your homes or abetted others to do so. Those who make friends with them are wrongdoers”. (60:8-9)
Remember again, the above verses are relevant only when there is war imposed upon the believers. The general instruction for all times whether it is peace time or war is given in the following verse:
“...Cooperate with every one (whether he is a non-Muslim) in what is good and pious and do not cooperate with anyone (even if he is called a Muslim) in sin and transgression...” (5:2) Br. Kevin Smith has probably read somewhere the translation of verses of the Quran taken out of context. He is absolutely misinformed that such verses outnumber the message of peace. In fact, in between the verses concerning war, there always is the directive of restraint and conciliation. The conduct of the Prophet () is a historical testimony to the teaching of the Quran.
In the course of war, the Prophet () enforced a code of conduct for the believers. “No women, no children, no old men and no labourers would be killed if they were not involved in direct combat even if they were on the battlefield to help the enemy ranks indirectly”.The Prophet () adhered to the above code of war and peace in his life. He had to migrate with his followers to Madinah, away from his home town Makkah, leaving all their belongings back. All the three major conflicts with the Makkans took place when they attacked on Madinah. Eight years after the migration, he marched towards Madinah to fight because the Makkans had killed his allies against a treaty made 2 1/2 years back and the oppressed allies appealed for his help. History has never witnessed such a show of compassion by a conqueror. In those 8 years, he had become so strong that the Makkans did not dare to fight him. When he was entering into Makkah with his army, his head bowed in thankfulness to God, a senior commander announced, “Today is the day of revenge”. The Prophet’s face turned red with anger and he ordered to strip the commander off the honour of bearing the flag. Then he declared, “Today is the day of compassion”. When the victorious army entered the city without resistance, he proclaimed general amnesty for all those who had tormented him and his followers for 13 years. He did not even claim the homes and belongings of his own and his followers.
Islam is not intolerant. It is the message of peace for the mankind. Jesus Christ was an esteemed prophet of Islam and a messenger of peace as were the other prophets mentioned in Old Testament. You have not read Qur’an and what you find revolting in the Bible is because of distortions and interpolations in the events therein.
We, as humans, can never show the ability to recognise good and evil without adhering to and following what you call is written in the ancient tomes of wisdom. The human rights record of USSR and China and the much tainted record of USA in Vietnam and 22 other countries since world war II testifies to it. You talk about the danger of world war because of tomes of wisdom while the world has already witnessed two world wars by the mighty wise European nations because they were wiser than the ancient tomes of wisdom. The world can only become a universal brotherhood if it heeds to the balanced teaching of the Prophets. Let no terrorist, by exploiting scriptures deceive you.
In regards to how many in the west view islam as a religion of terror, it is understandable why the connection would be made. many westerners do not know any muslims, in fact many have never met any muslims. So they live their (somewhat sheltered) lives until one day they see on tv a masked man cuttting a westerners head off with a knife, while his buddies shout "Allah akbar!" So now they start paying attention to the tv images, and they see car bombs, planes flying into buildings, bus bombings, suicide bombs, gunmen, all representing groups with names like 'Islamic Jihad'.
If you are one of these people that has not ever met a muslim, what would you think?
In regards to how many in the west view islam as a religion of terror, it is understandable why the connection would be made. many westerners do not know any muslims, in fact many have never met any muslims. So they live their (somewhat sheltered) lives until one day they see on tv a masked man cuttting a westerners head off with a knife, while his buddies shout "Allah akbar!" So now they start paying attention to the tv images, and they see car bombs, planes flying into buildings, bus bombings, suicide bombs, gunmen, all representing groups with names like 'Islamic Jihad'.
If you are one of these people that has not ever met a muslim, what would you think?
I've never met a baseball player. When one flew a plane into the side of a building in New York a couple of weeks ago, I didn't automatically assume that all baseball players are crap pilots.
I've never met a baseball player. When one flew a plane into the side of a building in New York a couple of weeks ago, I didn't automatically assume that all baseball players are crap pilots.
Come now Muezzin, I have come to expect more thoughtful answers from you.
I am not saying it is right or wrong, just basic human behavior. We make judgements based on the facts we recieve, and most people don't realize that they should dig a little deeper. I believe your answer was an attempt to mislead us. Obviously most of us are not going to make any assumptions about baseball players, but we are talking about a very different scenario. And the perception by those that don't understand what a muslim is (ie. all muslims are arabs, right?), right or wrong, is what they have been lead to believe. They have nothing else to go on, without making an effort to learn.
I don't think it is honest to say that you don't at least understand why these people think this way. Look at the way that many people in muslim countries view americans for example. Many have been lead to believe that it is a mass orgy of wealth an immorality filled with sinners. I have been to america, it is something different than that, there are many different kinds of people there.
IF you are someone that would find out all the facts first, then bravo, you are an exception.
(actually I would assume most baseball players are crap pilots, I don't think that many ever have flown a plane, have they?)
I don't think islam is a religion of terror, but i do think that killing gays like some muslims want is just disgusting. and killing apostales is bad. and killing thieves is bad. yes, they may be "sins" but to kill them for it? WOW. i don't see why apostales and gays should be punished, and thieves just need a little rehab.. but not death!
otherwise then the punishments of shar'iah, islam isn't all that bad. it could use a reform [like reform judaism] and i'm sure that will happen sooner or later.
I don't think islam is a religion of terror, but i do think that killing gays like some muslims want is just disgusting. and killing apostales is bad. and killing thieves is bad. yes, they may be "sins" but to kill them for it? WOW. i don't see why apostales and gays should be punished, and thieves just need a little rehab.. but not death!
otherwise then the punishments of shar'iah, islam isn't all that bad. it could use a reform [like reform judaism] and i'm sure that will happen sooner or later.
Hi thirdwatch.
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death.Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die." (Deuteronomy 17:3-5)
"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:13)
Also, if you believe God punished the people of Lot (peace be upon him.) then realise that you don't have the same authority as God, and you should also not like that act.
And no, islaam is a perfect religion. People may try to distort it, but that will never happen because Allaah Almighty has perfected this religion and chosen to preserve it till the day of judgement.
Unfortunately, that minority makes itself quite visible, and it has done a very good job of establishing itself as the "representative" of Islam, even if that is untrue.
I would think you would be most upset with this minority within your ranks, and not with the West for its slow and patient years of enduring the acts of provocation by that minority?
I would put the question to you Sir/Madam, how are you going to ELIMINATE that minority from your society(s)? If you do not have a viable plan, or if you and your congregations do not have a viable plan, then things will most likely get considerably worse before they get better.
Incorrect the media makes them very visble and the gulible follow suit...
How many bearded muslims have blown up planes? or trains???
i will tell you none...
yet in the airports it is those with beards and religous books that get picked on and stared at!?
how many times have muslims attacked the west!? and then look at how man times the west has ended up in the middle east with an intrest all of its own!??
wake up things are not the way they are seen...its called media control the amount of muslims suffering under western armies is way higher than the amount of westerners harmed by any muslim...
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
Incorrect the media makes them very visble and the gulible follow suit...
How many bearded muslims have blown up planes? or trains???
i will tell you none...
yet in the airports it is those with beards and religous books that get picked on and stared at!?
how many times have muslims attacked the west!? and then look at how man times the west has ended up in the middle east with an intrest all of its own!??
wake up things are not the way they are seen...its called media control the amount of muslims suffering under western armies is way higher than the amount of westerners harmed by any muslim...
People make a connection between muslims and terrorism. They also make a (justified) connection between bearded men with religious books dressed with eastern clothing and muslims. It is natural that if they make these two connections seperately that they will tie them together. The whole beard thing is a non-issue. People don't care about the beard, it is the connection with muslim and terrorism that they are focusing on. I can't tell you how many bearded muslims have blown things up, but I can mention a few where muslims have blown things up.
I don't quite understand the problem you are having with this. If a person blows something/someone up and a muslim group claims responsibility, what's the problem with acknowledging that? It is only the truth.
The difference is that the guy walking in the street with a beard isn't the one who blew so and so place up. It was another guy. Therefore the people shouldn't blame him for what another guy did - the same way i shouldn't blame another irish man because of what someone from the IRA did.
The difference is that the guy walking in the street with a beard isn't the one who blew so and so place up. It was another guy. Therefore the people shouldn't blame him for what another guy did - the same way i shouldn't blame another irish man because of what someone from the IRA did.
Peace.
I agree.
At the same time, we must recognize where our danger comes from. Take a wasp for example. For the most part, on a midsummer day the vaste majority of wasps that buzz near you do not sting you. Yet inevitably, there is eventually one wasp that does, or has. I know that most will not, and so I don't freak out when one is near me. But I do keep an eye on it. Why? I have no way of knowing the difference between the wasp that is prone to stinging and the vaste majority that won't unless provoked.
I also keep a close eye on mean looking white guys with bald heads and lots of tattoos. Mean looking black guys with gang symbols tattoed on them. Big dogs with studded collars that don't wag their tails. And cars that drive too fast on the road.
Thats true gary, but when you look at these guys - you should judge them according to their beliefs right? So because their all part of a violent gang - it's good to avoid them.
Similarly, when you see a guy with a beard - try to look at his beliefs too - he's keeping a beard because he may be a practising muslim. And kindness is a sign of a practising muslim, therefore you should also look at his beliefs to realise that he isn't what the media portrays him as.
Thats true gary, but when you look at these guys - you should judge them according to their beliefs right? So because their all part of a violent gang - it's good to avoid them.
Similarly, when you see a guy with a beard - try to look at his beliefs too - he's keeping a beard because he may be a practising muslim. And kindness is a sign of a practising muslim, therefore you should also look at his beliefs to realise that he isn't what the media portrays him as.
That's common sense isn't it?
Peace.
Yes, it is. Only there is more than that to consider. Using the wasp analogy again, the wasp has no beliefs. It has only one thing as a focus. Whatever is for the betterment of the colony. Gather food, defend, etc. I can pick any wasp, and it is not going to fly up and sting me. Yet I watch it. I let it be, but I still watch. It's focus has nothing to do with stinging me, but for my own protection I watch it.
There is another thing. True or not, many nonmuslims believe that there is at least a small portion of the muslim community that decieves nonmuslims to lull us into a sense of security, to take advantage of this at a later date. This may very well be not true, but it is not possible for you to prove this me. You may be unaware of it (not in the loop yourself), and so you deny it out of ignorance. You may be aware of it, and deny it as part of the deception. Or it may simply be not true. I don't know that it is true or not true, but just as a precaution, I watch.
Having said that, we do know that muslim men that seemed like ordinary citizens have bombed western targets.
But that can be said about anyone can't it? The media plays a big impact on the people to make them feel this way, and their successful alot of the time.
Anyway, i got nothing else to say because this has happened to the previous prophets and messengers of Allaah, they bring the message - and because the super-powers of that time don't want the people to accept it, they throw false accusations so the people fear being close to them to understand their faith.
Why is this? It's because they fear that if the people realise the truth of the worship of the one true God - the Creator of everyone of us, the super-powers will lose their authority. However, if someone is sincere - they will take risks to find out the truth, and Allaah Almighty will guide the sincere ones.
People make a connection between muslims and terrorism. They also make a (justified) connection between bearded men with religious books dressed with eastern clothing and muslims. It is natural that if they make these two connections seperately that they will tie them together. The whole beard thing is a non-issue. People don't care about the beard, it is the connection with muslim and terrorism that they are focusing on. I can't tell you how many bearded muslims have blown things up, but I can mention a few where muslims have blown things up.
I don't quite understand the problem you are having with this. If a person blows something/someone up and a muslim group claims responsibility, what's the problem with acknowledging that? It is only the truth.
Well you talked with Fi_Sabilillah sems like you agreed to disagree fair enough i would say no diffrent in plain there are things the media shows that are used to spread fear of something that is not exactly the way it seems and the people who know no better follow like sheep...
this being the case does not make it true...
majority of muslims are peacful yet beacuse the media concentrate on the bad ones the world follow like sheep.
also what the media does not state is there is a diffrence between terrorists who come over to another land to attack and those in there own land fighting they are massivly diffrent for the two acts that harmed innocents are terorisem indeed and quite sick...
however a man in his land fighting against what he see's as occupying forces is somewhat diffrent yet majority of the west think the world is packed full of muslim terrorists?
its misconception by the people and exagerated by the media and created by the goverment..
no doubt you may wish to disagree fairenough..that is your opinion and you are entitled to it...
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
no doubt you may wish to disagree fairenough..that is your opinion and you are entitled to it...
Actually I don't disagree with parts of your statement. A man fighting against occupying forces is not what I would define as a terrorist. A man detonating a car bomb in an Iraqi market, or fire bombing an Afghan school is a terrorist. The problem is not whether or not Islam supports this (assuming it does not), but that some muslims do.
Yes, it is. Only there is more than that to consider. Using the wasp analogy again, the wasp has no beliefs. It has only one thing as a focus. Whatever is for the betterment of the colony. Gather food, defend, etc. I can pick any wasp, and it is not going to fly up and sting me. Yet I watch it. I let it be, but I still watch. It's focus has nothing to do with stinging me, but for my own protection I watch it.
There is another thing. True or not, many nonmuslims believe that there is at least a small portion of the muslim community that decieves nonmuslims to lull us into a sense of security, to take advantage of this at a later date. This may very well be not true, but it is not possible for you to prove this me. You may be unaware of it (not in the loop yourself), and so you deny it out of ignorance. You may be aware of it, and deny it as part of the deception. Or it may simply be not true. I don't know that it is true or not true, but just as a precaution, I watch.
Having said that, we do know that muslim men that seemed like ordinary citizens have bombed western targets.
The part in bold is something that I wonder about. Why do any of you as muslims feel (assuming for the moment that it isn't true) that nonmuslims would think this? Where does this suspicion originate?
The part in bold is something that I wonder about. Why do any of you as muslims feel (assuming for the moment that it isn't true) that nonmuslims would think this? Where does this suspicion originate?
I used to go into some anti-islam rooms and this is all they talked about, Islam slowly taking over unless they stopped it.
It was amazing to watch, how they each took turn on the mic, 'guys islam is gonna take over if we dont put an end to it' and similar stuff, there was this one woman who always quoted some asian or malasian or someone's prmie minister and how he said something about 'Infiltrate, populate...' and something and she was like 'see this is what they are doing'
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
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A Religion of Terror? (OP)
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