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A Religion of Terror?

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    Exclamation A Religion of Terror? (OP)




    nameofallah 2 - A Religion of Terror?


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    A Religion of Terror؟




    A bomb goes off in a marketplace in Jerusalem. A suicide bomber launches himself into a bus full of women and children in Tel Aviv. Foreign tourists get massacred at a holiday resort in Luxor, Egypt. Villages upon villages get annihilated in Algeria. The list of events worldwide which have come to symbolise the 'Islamic terror' are endless. From the times in the 70's and 80's when Pan Am and TWA aeroplanes would be highjacked, to the mid 80's in war torn Lebanon where Americans and Europeans would be held as hostages for years; all such incidents have come to be identified with the religion of Islam. Such incidents from past and present have undoubtedly affected Muslims worldwide and more so in the West. Any Muslim, who wants to practice his/her religion and expresses the pious desire to live under the banner of Islam, is labelled a fundamentalist or extremist. Any Muslim man who walks down a busy street in London or Paris (and Paris moreso) with a beard and a scarf on his head, is looked upon as being a terrorist who's probably got an AK47 stashed somewhere on his person. Muslim women who are veiled can't go anywhere in the Western world without being taunted as being oppressed or being mad (for covering up). However, are such beliefs and opinions about Islam really justified?

    Exploding the myth

    One of the many short comings which has arisen in the West, is judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this, segments of Western society have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done - judge a religion by the conduct of its people - then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques . Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that the Western world is foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam. So what is the reality of Islam? How does one dispel the myths which have been created and spread so viciously? The only way to examine Islam is to simply examine its belief system. Look at its sources, the Qur'an and Sunna, and see what they have to say. This is the way to find the truth about what Islam says about terror, terrorism and terrorists. One who is sincerely searching for the truth, will do it no other way. The very name Islam comes from the Arabic root word 'salama' which means peace. Islam is a religion which is based upon achieving peace through the submission to the will of Allah. Thus, by this very simple linguistic definition, one can ascertain as to what the nature of this religion is. If such a religion is based on the notion of peace, then how is it that so many acts done by its adherents are contrary to peace? The answer is simple. Such actions, if not sanctioned by the religion, have no place with it. They are not Islamic and should not be thought of as Islamic.

    Jihad


    The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression. However, it must be said that the meaning of jihad, as a 'holy war', is something which is totally foreign and not from Islam. If anything, such a description belongs more so to Christianity and its adherents. It was terms like this which were used to justify the slaughter and pillage of towns and cities during the crusades by the Christians. By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (saws) said:

    "The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic"

    In the Qur'an, Allah also says:

    "So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur'an)" (Surah Al-Furqan 25:52)

    By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allah says in the Qur'an:
    "And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allah is full of bounty to the worlds"
    (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251)

    Such would be the corruption on this Earth if there had never been a combative jihad that Allah says:

    "For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is mentioned much, would surely have been pulled down. Indeed Allah will help those who help His (cause). Truly Allah is All strong, All mighty"
    (Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)

    This combative jihad being both defensive and offensive, is something which is commanded by Allah upon the Muslims. Through this command the oppressed and weak are rescued from the tyranny of the world:
    "And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors and raise for us from you one who will protect and raise for us from you one who will help"(Surah An-Nisa 4:75)

    Anyone who knows the early history of Islam, will know that all those nations and empires which came under the fold of Islam were indeed previously oppressed. When the companions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) went out for the offensive jihad against the Egyptians, the Persians and the Romans, we find that the people did not resist against them at all. Rather, they accepted Islam on such a scale, that it is inconceivable that the jihad of Islam could be anything other then a liberation for these people; a liberation from centuries of tyranny. In fact, with the Byzantine Egyptians and the people of Spain, the Muslims were even beckoned to come and liberate these lands from the oppression of their kings. This is the glorious track record of the Muslim jihad. Compare this with the brutal track record of warfare in the Western world over the centuries. From the crusades against the Muslims to the days of colonial warfare, the Western world has killed, destroyed and plundered everything which has come in its way. Even today this merciless killing goes on by the Western nations. While claiming to be about world peace and security, Western nations are ready to bomb innocent civilians at the drop of a hat. The classic example of this is the recent bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan. Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But
    "… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not"
    (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)

    The hypocrisy of the West is indeed astounding.

    By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allah says in the Qur'an:


    "And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)

    Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) "forbade the killing of women and children" . Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:

    "Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"
    (Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

    After reading such passages from the Qur'an and knowing about what Islam commands and prohibits in jihad, the rules of warfare are given a new meaning; a meaning of justice. How sad it is then, that whilst Islam is condemned for striking terror into the hearts of the people, the likes of the Serbs, the Indian army in Kashmir and the Israeli soldiers in Palestine are left untarnished for the atrocities they have committed in the name of warfare.

    So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allah's path? From what has already been stated above, it can be deduced that this is not from the religion. However, unfortunately many Muslims have taken suicide bombing as being a virtuous act by which one receives reward. This could not be further from the truth. The Prophet (saws) said: "Those who go to extremes are destroyed" . Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions. Unfortunately, today (some misguided) Muslims believe that such acts are paving the way for an Islamic revival and a return to the rule of Islam's glorious law. However, we fail to bear in mind that the Prophet (saws) said:
    "Do not be delighted by the action of anyone, until you see how he ends up"

    So, for example what is the end of a suicide bomber in Palestine?, a leg here, an arm there. Massive retaliation by the Israeli's in the West Bank and Gaza. More Muslims killed and persecuted. How can we be delighted with such an end? What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said:

    "He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell"

    Some are under the misconception that by killing oneself for an Islamic cause, one commits an act which deserves Paradise. Once when a man killed himself, the Prophet (saws) said: "He is a dweller of the Fire". When the people were surprised at this, the Prophet (saws) said:

    "A person performs the deeds which to the people appears to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the dwellers of the Fire"


    "...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind"
    (Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)

    Thus, all other types of extremities such as hostage taking, hijacking and planting bombs in public places, are clearly forbidden in Islam.

    The Media

    By going through the teachings of Islam, it is clear that such a religion has only come to benefit mankind - not to destroy it. So why is there so much hatred for this noble religion in the West? The answer is simple, the media. It is the Jewish influenced media of the West which has portrayed Islam to be something that it is not. During the 70's and 80's when the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) were carrying out daring highjacks on the worlds airways, the media in the West portrayed it as being Islamic. When the Shi'ite suicide bombers of the 80's were causing so much havoc in the Lebanon and in the Gulf region, the media in the West portrayed it as a part of Islam. However, it is known by the heads of the media that the likes of the PLO were not an Islamic organisation, and that according to Islam, Shi'ites are outside the fold of Islam . Yet such facts are never portrayed by a media which seeks to cover the truth of this religion. A number of years ago, when the Oklahoma City bomb went off, a headline in one of the newspapers, 'Today' , summed up this attitude. With a picture of a fire fighter holding a dead child in his arms, the headline read: "In The Name of Islam" Time has of course proven that this bigoted assumption was incorrect, as Timothy McVeigh, a right wing radical now faces the death penalty for the crime . Likewise the bombs which went off in the Paris metro in 1995, were also blamed on Muslim fanatics. It has now emerged that the Algerian secret service who having routinely bribed many European journalists and MPs, were actually behind it. The desire to throw a veil over Islam is immense by these people:

    "They intend to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will complete His light even though the disbelievers hate (it)"
    (Surah As-Saff 61:8)

    Whilst trying to destroy Islam through this instrument of the media, the Jews clearly try to portray an image of themselves as being the oppressed people. Every year, we are reminded as to how many Jews perished under the Nazis in World War II. We are made to feel sorry for these same people who have gone on to commit so many crimes upon the Palestinian people. Some may say that this is a racist and biased viewpoint. But we say; If this media was not run and orchestrated by the Jews and was truly neutral, then why are Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, two former Israeli prime ministers, not held aloft as being terrorists? Anyone who knows about the history of the Palestinian occupation will tell you that these two men were members of the Stern Gang and Irgun, two notorious Jewish terror groups who killed many innocent people . If this media was truly impartial, then why does it not tell about the extent of the Israeli bombardment and illegal occupation of Southern Lebanon and its people? And if this media really had nothing against the religion of Allah, then why does it not inform the people that every day hundreds are entering the religion of Islam? Such things will never be highlighted in the Western media, simply because to do so would be against their very interests.

    With such immense pressure against it, it is indeed a blessing from Allah that Islam goes from strength to strength. It continues to grow faster then any other religion in the Western world, conquering the hearts and minds of thousands. All this should not even surprise us though, for Allah has promised us that this religion will prevail:

    "It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, so that He may make it victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers detest it"
    (Surah As-Saff 61:9)

    It is a must that humanity comes towards the religion of Islam. Without it, we will continue to slip down the road of inequity and darkness. With it we can establish a society of justice and peace. Religion of terror? ... no. The way forward? ... yes.

    "There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has indeed become distinct from the wrong. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All Hearing, All Knowing"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)






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    re: A Religion of Terror?

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    Hi, Gary

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    There seems to be some very specific details though about the quran teaching that it is ok to decieve nonmuslims in order to gain the advantage.
    Please show me, where we are allowed to lie to non muslims in every day things in order to gain advantage.
    A Religion of Terror?

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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah View Post
    Hi, Gary



    Please show me, where we are allowed to lie to non muslims in every day things in order to gain advantage.
    The wording of your request is interesting. First, in the absence of a denial, I must assume that you agree on some issues at least, it is allowed. Second, these things always seem to be open to interpretation. One muslim tells me it is only in instances of this, while another will say "no, it also includes that".

    Anyway, you are more aware I am sure, of the verses in the quran that talk about this. And I am still slow at finding things in the quran. But if you are serious, I will find the verses in question, if you really want me point them out for you.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    Hi Gary,
    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    The wording of your request is interesting. First, in the absence of a denial, I must assume that you agree on some issues at least, it is allowed. Second, these things always seem to be open to interpretation. One muslim tells me it is only in instances of this, while another will say "no, it also includes that".

    Anyway, you are more aware I am sure, of the verses in the quran that talk about this. And I am still slow at finding things in the quran. But if you are serious, I will find the verses in question, if you really want me point them out for you.
    I didn't take a stance of whether I agree or disagree, I'm just curious as to what verses you meant so that I may take a look at them and read about things, the interpretation thing, well thats something that people can discuss after seeing these verses, or maybe you can open a thread, askin why such differences happen, why some people say you have to raed about this bit in the background and what verses does it aplpy to, so that you may gain better understanding.

    Also, I am a learner, a new muslim so am afraid I might not have verses at my fingertips, anyhow, I would be happy to see them when you find them, a word of advise, when you state things, try and have the bak up ready because Islam and Muslims are strict on those things. Anyhow, as for me, take your time

    Eesa.
    A Religion of Terror?

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah View Post
    Hi Gary,


    I didn't take a stance of whether I agree or disagree, I'm just curious as to what verses you meant so that I may take a look at them and read about things, the interpretation thing, well thats something that people can discuss after seeing these verses, or maybe you can open a thread, askin why such differences happen, why some people say you have to raed about this bit in the background and what verses does it aplpy to, so that you may gain better understanding.

    Also, I am a learner, a new muslim so am afraid I might not have verses at my fingertips, anyhow, I would be happy to see them when you find them, a word of advise, when you state things, try and have the bak up ready because Islam and Muslims are strict on those things. Anyhow, as for me, take your time

    Eesa.
    I'll dig 'em out. I have to go for a bit (someone in my non-internet real-world is calling me right now).
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah View Post
    Hi thirdwatch.


    Also, if you believe God punished the people of Lot (peace be upon him.) then realise that you don't have the same authority as God, and you should also not like that act.


    And no, islaam is a perfect religion. People may try to distort it, but that will never happen because Allaah Almighty has perfected this religion and chosen to preserve it till the day of judgement.



    Peace.

    you had quoted verses from the old testament. only sorry sister, but christians don't use the laws of the old testament. so your case is invalid lol. plus i don't see the significans in slamming down other religions to make yours seem not bad or something.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    I'll dig 'em out. I have to go for a bit (someone in my non-internet real-world is calling me right now).
    Greetings Gary
    I am eagerly awaiting those verses as well... so please do hurry back with them....... it is good to back such a heavy claim with evidence rather than leave it open and dancing verbally around it!
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    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - A Religion of Terror?

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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    Actually I don't disagree with parts of your statement. A man fighting against occupying forces is not what I would define as a terrorist. A man detonating a car bomb in an Iraqi market, or fire bombing an Afghan school is a terrorist. The problem is not whether or not Islam supports this (assuming it does not), but that some muslims do.
    that makes no sense? to be a muslim you have to follow islam? so.....??

    and again to fire bomb innocents if that is you intent is not islamic therefore not to be blamed on the religon?

    i have heard of many small groups of men in america who have raped women should we blame that on the religon!? that would make no sense?
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    There seems to be some very specific details though about the quran teaching that it is ok to decieve nonmuslims in order to gain the advantage.
    It does not state to deceive unbeleivers expect in war against evil doers...

    as a strategy of war not a tool of misconception nor does it state anywhere to lie to unbeleivers about islam that is against all that is islamic...
    A Religion of Terror?

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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    Hi, and Hope you are well,

    I will hopefully just insert my view, not to take over from my Brother Fi_sabililah but rather to just put my input, and when he comes back he may choose to put his own. You replied,

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    you had quoted verses from the old testament. only sorry sister, but christians don't use the laws of the old testament. so your case is invalid lol. plus i don't see the significans in slamming down other religions to make yours seem not bad or something.
    Fi_Sabilillah, was replying to your statement in which you said:

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    I don't think islam is a religion of terror, but i do think that killing gays like some muslims want is just disgusting. and killing apostales is bad. and killing thieves is bad. yes, they may be "sins" but to kill them for it? WOW. i don't see why apostales and gays should be punished, and thieves just need a little rehab.. but not death!

    otherwise then the punishments of shar'iah, islam isn't all that bad. it could use a reform [like reform judaism] and i'm sure that will happen sooner or later.
    The point of Brother Fi_Sabilillah's post was to show you taht the thing you claimed to be 'disgusting' and 'bad' are actually, also found in a book alot of Christians tend to see as Holy or a such, a book which has captured the words of G-d of previous.

    Fi_Sabilillah, I think, and I am positive that you, as you claimed, "but christians don't use the laws of the old testament" do not follow such laws, but to label the punishments in Islam for homosexuality and 'conversion' as 'bad' and 'disgusting' while those same punishments are found on the pages of a book you claim has succesfully captured the Words of G-d is quite hypocritical. I ask you, although you don't follow the laws now, for you claim to be 'under grace' do you believe that when G-d in the Old Testament, provided those laws, that G-d had therefore, instructed His people to act in a bad, and disguisting manner?

    That is the whole raeson, I think behind the posting of those verses.

    Also, you stated:

    plus i don't see the significans in slamming down other religions to make yours seem not bad or something.
    Rather, it is not the slamming of other religions that is the purpose, the only reason, I would use the bible in this scenario is because you as a christian hold that to be a truthful account of G-d throught history and G-d's message to us, thus if I bring you an act or commandent which you condemn in Islam, and show it to you in on the pages of your Scripture, it would cause you to rethink.

    You see, Islam is able to stand on it's own 'two feet' it does not need to have anything else to be compared against, but rather, for the sake of simplicity, since you are a christian, it was easier to bring a paralel between the religions.

    I hope that is clear, if not please escuse me and point me to my mistakes

    And I hope Brother Fi_Sabilillah continous to contribute to this beautiful thread, well in my opinion.

    Peace be upon Jesus son of Mary, and may he be immune from any lies attributed to him.

    Eesa.
    A Religion of Terror?

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Rou View Post
    It does not state to deceive unbeleivers expect in war against evil doers...

    as a strategy of war not a tool of misconception nor does it state anywhere to lie to unbeleivers about islam that is against all that is islamic...
    Right, and the interpretation issue comes into play right there. Many muslims interpret daily life (especially after 9-11) as being at war. So in daily life it is ok to smile and pretend to be friends, because it is war. Telling lies to the enemy is ok. That is of course, assuming that this whole "waiting to attack" scenario is true. As stated before, we as nonmuslims have no way to know for sure. And it is not unlikely that at least some are doing this. We have seen it already in past attacks.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    Right, and the interpretation issue comes into play right there. Many muslims interpret daily life (especially after 9-11) as being at war. So in daily life it is ok to smile and pretend to be friends, because it is war. Telling lies to the enemy is ok. That is of course, assuming that this whole "waiting to attack" scenario is true. As stated before, we as nonmuslims have no way to know for sure. And it is not unlikely that at least some are doing this. We have seen it already in past attacks.
    have you now? care to state?

    and second no the type of lying YOU are reffering to is not advocated in the quran you may bring what vereses you will i will clairfy them for you but you are incorrect in your thought on this matter
    A Religion of Terror?

    wwwislamicboardcom - A Religion of Terror?
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Rou View Post
    have you now? care to state?

    and second no the type of lying YOU are reffering to is not advocated in the quran you may bring what vereses you will i will clairfy them for you but you are incorrect in your thought on this matter
    Wouldn't that be an exercise in futility? I have had these discussions before, and you could be lying, as part of the deception already mentioned. You could present me with very convincing evidence, but it may be just that you are very good at the deception. I have no way of knowing.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    Wouldn't that be an exercise in futility? I have had these discussions before, and you could be lying, as part of the deception already mentioned. You could present me with very convincing evidence, but it may be just that you are very good at the deception. I have no way of knowing.
    HAHAH

    oh my g-d whatever bye...

    (uhmm just a statment before i go lol you know when you think people are lying about there facts you have two choices? research or just ignore no need to be afraid lo!?)

    Ps "Couldnt find the verse's huh?"
    A Religion of Terror?

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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    Gary, you say that us muslims can use deception. If that's true, you're supposed to backup your claim with evidence from authentic islamic sources.


    Second - if you think that we're the ones who are using deception, realise that people who don't use religion to direct them in their life - they can easily use deception too. They may use it even more than someone from a faithgroup because these people don't have a system to govern their way of life as a whole.

    Therefore that argument is weak, and the same finger can be pointed at anyone.



    Peace.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Rou View Post
    HAHAH

    oh my g-d whatever bye...

    (uhmm just a statment before i go lol you know when you think people are lying about there facts you have two choices? research or just ignore no need to be afraid lo!?)

    Ps "Couldnt find the verse's huh?"
    Afraid? No, not really. I have nothing to fear even if it is true.

    Ps "Couldnt find the verse's huh?"
    No, I didn't bother to look. It just is not important to me.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah View Post
    Gary, you say that us muslims can use deception. If that's true, you're supposed to backup your claim with evidence from authentic islamic sources.


    Second - if you think that we're the ones who are using deception, realise that people who don't use religion to direct them in their life - they can easily use deception too. They may use it even more than someone from a faithgroup because these people don't have a system to govern their way of life as a whole.

    Therefore that argument is weak, and the same finger can be pointed at anyone.


    Peace.
    I would not be very useful to stumble through the quran finding verses that you are already aware of, just so you can interprete them in a politically correct manner, while I point out the other way to interpret the same verse. It is not like I am making you aware of something for the first time. You are fully aware I am sure that there is a level of mistrust/paranoia that exists in the nonmuslim world. I merely stated that it exists, and have no interest in proving whether it is true or not, I simply am not concerned. True or not, I have nothing to fear. I just don't care.
    As for your point about other people using deception, I agree. I never stated that others don't decieve. But you are comparing to those without religion.
    As members of a faith, you are supposed to try to stay on higher moral ground. To attempt to justify things by comparing to them is in itself a weak point.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    No... none of us who read the Quran daily in the mother tongue are aware of such a verse or verses... so please make an honest effort to show us the verse(s)... again instead of dancing around it... can't build high towers without foundation or pillars... and by the same token you can't make an argument on a hypothetical verse.... So I challenge you to find it! and I will offer every already out there translation for it links included and nothing of my own words, or anything in the way of political correctness!
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    Last edited by جوري; 11-06-2006 at 09:37 PM.
    A Religion of Terror?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - A Religion of Terror?

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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    I think what you're referring to is the idea of deception in the context of fighting against the enemy in battle. Muslims are allowed to use deception then, and i don't know of any other circumstances. If you think i'm lying to you, then that's upto you because i can simply say the same.

    I can compare this idea of deception (in the battlefield) to how non muslims are, because combat is done by both sides. And if one is honest to the enemy - then that can bring loss and put the muslims in danger. Therefore it is permissible within them circumstances.



    Muslims have high morals compared to any other faith, and these morals were introduced over 1420 years ago, yet these are still more advanced than the immorality we see in todays society.

    Justifying things by comparing is done to show the contrast between X and Y, it explains how one is better than the other, and it explains its benefits compared to the others disadvantages.



    It's easy to say that a certain religion says so and so, then blaming that party without introducing evidence in the first place. Any sane person will ask you for evidence for your claim, so please try doing that next time insha'Allaah.



    Allaah Almighty know's best.



    Peace.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah View Post
    I think what you're referring to is the idea of deception in the context of fighting against the enemy in battle. Muslims are allowed to use deception then, and i don't know of any other circumstances. If you think i'm lying to you, then that's upto you because i can simply say the same.
    I don't actually think anyone is lying to me. I simply acknowledge the possibility. I am not really concerned one way or the other. And yes, you are right. I could also be lying to you. I could be setting you up right now (see the black van parked out on the street?). It is possible. What do you think?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah View Post

    Muslims have high morals compared to any other faith,
    Wrong. The moral code of muslims is no higher than others. This time you are making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

    True, these days it seems that many from other faiths are losing their morality, but that is a personal choice, and they are just more open about it than muslims. Muslims just hide it more.

    Example: A few years ago, I lived in a different part of the world, and worked at a factory. At this factory, the workforce was divided about equally between muslims and others. I had the opportunity to get to know many muslims. I met some really wonderful people, and some real jerks (I am sure one guy really was a terrorist).

    What I found interesting was the atmosphere of oppression that they placed on each other. When they were together they behaved much differently then when I was alone with them.

    Some would speak of lustful things and pornography, but say "don't tell the others". Some would eat food with me that they were not allowed to eat, "don't tell the others." Some would drink beer and other alcohol, "don't tell the others".

    I did not tell the others. But it was so silly, each one was doing things that they didn't want the others to know about. If they were not living in this oppressive manner and were just honest, they would realize that they were all really quite the same. Nobody is perfect. We all sin.

    Anyway, so no. Muslims do not have higher morals. They just hide things more.
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    re: A Religion of Terror?

    format_quote Originally Posted by GARY View Post
    Afraid? No, not really. I have nothing to fear even if it is true.

    No, I didn't bother to look. It just is not important to me.
    In other words...ignorance
    Don't say things when u cant back it up. If you chose to, bring evidence, not a bunch of rambling words without base.
    A Religion of Terror?

    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
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