non muslims as friends?

Hi justahumane,

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Brother I have re-read ur article and this time more properly, one thing which confuse me that how come that almost all translation of holy quran use the word friends alongwith protectors?

This is one misconception amongst non-muslims and even many english-speaking Muslims - they think that the translations of the Qur'an are authoritative. Even a brief invesitigation of these translators will show that such a view is not correct. Yusuf Ali and Pickthall had no formal Islamic education and it is well known that their translations, though generally fair, are not free of errors. Interpretation and understanding of the verses is not obtained from these translators but from the Islamic scholar's explication of how these verses were explained/implemented by the Prophet Muhammad and how they were understood by the companions.

Secondly, it is not true that almost all the translators have fallen into this mistake of translating it simply as 'friends'. This mistake is not in the Hilali-Khan translation, the Saheeh Int'l translation or the translation of F. Malik.

Some scholers are opposite of ur views I think, it becomes very hard to choose who to believe.

Which 'scholars' ? If you take a closer look at what all the scholars have said instead of just a superficial examination, you will see that it all boils down to what I have explained above.

Regards

off topic - is abdullah yusuf ali the same as yusuf ali?

format_quote Originally Posted by luke07930

non muslims as friends? Surely this is a joke???? This cannot be a teaching of the Koran. Even though I havent read the Koran I dont believe it is a teaching of Islam, surely it would go against the peacefull nature of Islam to preach seperation and exclusion of non believers.

But what worries me is there seems to be a debate at all. Surely the answer is 'of course you can have non believers as friends', Nuf said.

But there seems to be some confusion even for the people who know the Koran well.

Perhaps if you read all the replies in the thread you would be able to answer all your questions yourself.

Take care,

format_quote Originally Posted by nishom

Salaam,

what is it meant when in the Quran it says not to take for friends disbelievers?

Sorry, but i cant remember where this ayah is.

My closest friend is a non Muslim.

The word they use for "Friends" is Wali. Wali is clearly an arabic word that means "leader".

So the verse basically states: Do not take unbelievers for your leaders.

I hear this refutation a lot... and they use the word "Friends" for political reasons which i am not going to get into right now.. but really, it is "Leader".

Just like you need your Wali for marriages and so forth... Same thing.

If you need, i can go into more detail about this subject.

Kidman

format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512

you're right, only this verse changes it all..
005.051. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

That is the verse we've been discussing all along!
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...tml#post530150
Honestly, don't make a fool out of yourself by falling into the same fallacy we've debunked a dozen times previously. READ.

Regards

A link worth checking out

Friendship With Non-Muslims According To The Qur'an - By Sidi Afroz Ali, Al Ghazzali Centre

"O' Ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your Wali (Leaders): They are but Wali's (Leaders) to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

So, let them be leaders of each other, and don't be lead by them. Basically, don't let them make up decisions for you, like a Wali does. A Wali is like a Parent, Guardian, Leader figure. So like a boss isn't even considered a Wali, it's close but not really meant as a boss, or anything like that, its more powerful than a boss.

And then it says that whoever turns to them, is one of them... meaning Christian or Jew. Then the next part says that Allah doesn't guide a person that is unjust... I don't believe it is specifically talking about all Christians or Jews, just the ones that are unjust. I mean, if we go back in time, all true Muslims were Jews and Christians at one time, before the true religion that Moses and Jesus preached became tampered.

Kidman

Greetings

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I hope you will not call me a fool for asking a follow-up question.

I am sure you can appreciate the difference between asking for clarification versus raising the exact same misunderstanding that has been discussed, explained, and debunked in dozens of posts for the past few weeks - in the same thread!!

I understand that "friends" is not the best English translation of the Arabic. But even with that understand, the second half of the verse under discussion then seems to read as follows:
"And he amongst you that turns to them [them referring to Jews and Christians] is of them."

I don't suppose that it is actually saying that one becomes in fact a Jew or a Christian by turning to a Jew or a Christian as a Wali. But it does seem to imply that turning to establish relationships with Jews or Christians somehow changes one in a negative way.

The verse is referring to the aforementioned concept of Wilayah. Turning to them for what? For allegiance against the Muslim community, as demonstrated by the historical context elucidated earlier. If one chooses to side with them, then they are to be judged from amongst them. Religiously, the individual may not declare themselves to have adopted Judaism or Christianity, but the fact that 'they are from them' is still established by their political support.

Further the last part of the verse: "Verily God guideth not a people unjust." when read in context with the rest of the verse would seem to be implying that Allah views Christians and Jews as unjust people.

This is speaking about the people who ally with opposing forces against their own brethren, i.e. the Muslims.

Of course I do know some people who are adherents of the Christian and the Jewish religion that I too would say are unjust.

Actually this is relative. Depending on what you deem to be truth, you will hold those who reject and oppose it to be unjust to themselves since they are depriving their own souls of the truth that God has delivered to them, whether they think so or not.

Regards

format_quote Originally Posted by Jameel

does anyone here understand al wala wal baraa (to love and hate for the sake of allah) a vital topic which needs to be understood.by everyone..

Indeed. We are to have allegiance and love for our fellow believers and we distance ourselves from the disbelief of the disbelievers. But this does NOT negate that we are to treat all people with kindness and compassion and in the friendly manner of our beloved Prophet saws so that they will appreciate the beauty of Islam.

MOD: ALREADY EXPLAINED IN THE POST ABOVE. COMMENT ON WHAT HAS PRECEDED INSTEAD OF REPEATING POINTS.

Some people are still struggling to get a simple point so let me just quote some scholars to avoid repeating myself.

From Shaykh Abdul-'Azîz Ibn Bâz:

He [the Muslim] also must be neighborly toward his non-Muslim neighbor. If your neighbor is good to you, you do not harm him and you may even give him charity if he is poor or give him a gift if he is rich. You may also advise him concerning what is good for him. All of this may lead him to want to learn about Islam and become a Muslim and because neighbors have very great rights. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "The Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) kept advising me concerning the neighbor until I thought he was going to inherit [from his neighbor]." (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim). Allah also says in the Quran, "Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and drove you not from your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity" (al-Mumtahinah 60:7). It is recorded in an authentic hadith from Asma bint Abu Bakr that her mother, who was a polytheist, visited her and asked for her assistance - this was during the time of the peace treaty between the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the disbelievers so she went to the Prophet (peace be upon him) to ask him about that and he told her to keep the ties of kinship with her and be righteous towards her.

From Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Sâlih Al-'Uthaymîn:

Likewise I invite you to have respect for those people who have the right that they should be respected, from those between you and whom there is and agreement (of protection) [i.e. Non-Muslims]. For the land which you are living is such that there is an agreement between you and them. If this were not the case they would have killed you or expelled you. So preserve this agreement, and do not prove treacherous to it, since treachery is a sign of the hypocrites, and it is not from the way of the Believers.


...O my brother Muslims. O youth. Be true in your sayings with your brothers, and with those Non-Muslims whom you live along with - so that you will be inviters to the Religion of Islaam, by your actions and in reality. So how many people there are who first entered into Islaam because of the behaviour and manners of the Muslims, and their truthfulness, and their being true in their dealings.

From Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah:

This idea here should be understood, and the verse from the Quran that we should take as the overriding verse in our relationship with this people [i.e. Non-muslims] is where Allah subhaana wa ta'aala says concerning those who neither fight you because of your religion nor remove you from your homes that He does not prohibit you from showing them birr: righteousness. "Birr" in the Arabic language is the highest degree of ihsaan-it is the 'aala daraja of ihsan. Allah does not prevent you from showing them excellence-moral excellence-in your transactions with them nor from sharing with them a portion of your wealth.


Also, it is necessary for us to show respect to these people. Islam prohibits us from showing aggression towards people who do not show aggression towards us. The Messenger of Allah, sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, said, "Do not enter the houses of the Christians nor eat anything of their fruits except with their permission." Islam prohibits theft; it prohibits fraud; it prohibits cheating; and it prohibits these things in relation to the Muslims and in relation to the non-Muslims. The things that you cannot do to a Muslim, you also cannot do to a non-Muslim.



Allah, subhaana wa ta'aala, for that reason says, "Call to your Lord with wisdom and with a beautiful admonition, and dispute them in the most excellent of ways." In other words, debate with them and dialogue with them in the most beautiful of ways. Don't be argumentative; don't be cruel; don't be mean; don't humiliate them. Do it ways in which they can listen to the truth, respect the truth, and come to the truth. For this reason, we have to be du'ahtis salaam: people who are callers to peace.

From Shaykh Salmân Bin Fahd Al-'Awdah:

The Muslim is taught by his book, the Qur’ân, to hate falsehood, distorted beliefs, and deviance, and consequently, to hate the representation of falsehood and deviant beliefs at the hands of the unbelievers. He does not, however, hate the people themselves. In fact, he should wish for them every possible good and hope that they will attain guidance and be saved from the Hellfire.

When one of the unbelievers attains guidance, the Muslim should be as joyous for his sake as our Prophet (peace be upon him) was when a Jewish boy converted to Islam just before he died. The Prophet (peace be upon him) left his home saying: “All praises are for Allah who saved him from the Hellfire.”

The hatred one should have is for their deviance or sinful behavior, not for the people themselves.

This is why a Muslim cannot be blamed for his affection towards his son, wife, and others, even if they are not Muslims. However, such affection should not cause him to neglect any part of his religion. That is why the Muslims who, on account of their wives and children, failed to emigrate to Madinah as they were commanded were rebuked for staying behind. Indeed, Allah describes our wives and children as a trial.

In fact, the ones who encourage hatred are certain Western and other non-Muslim politicians and media personalities who seem to be doing everything in their power to instigate conflicts against Muslims in various parts of the world. By their practices, they seem to be trying to give the Muslims lessons in hatred and rancor.

If there are some moderate and reasonable voices in the West and in places like India, they are being drowned out by the overwhelming clamor of extremism and anti-Islamic rhetoric. Admittedly, the same thing can be said for the Muslims as well. However, I must stress that the West is suffocating the moderate and temperate voices in the Muslim world who are on the correct Islamic methodology, the methodology that is the way of salvation for the Muslim nation.

The Muslim is to be nice, neighborly, decent and friendly with all people so that his good behavior is a means of calling others to Islam. This does not mean that he loses his identity and affiliates himself with disbelievers, or that he allows himself to be influenced by them - only that he is respectful and cordial with them.