non muslims as friends?

http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=22
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...conceptions#19

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=22
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...conceptions#19

Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific rather than twisting of translation to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.

I will not attempt to answer for Brother Ansar. This is strictly my own view. Although I am a revert to Islam. I find the Qur'an to be very easy to understand. There is no mystery in it. If a person takes the time to learn a few basic concepts of the Arabic language it flows as easy as water. Until a person has some knowledge of Arabic, there are many very good translations some are better than others. The only secret is that a person using a translation, is doing that, using a translation. If something seems radical or out of line, they need to understand that is probably a translation error. Also people reading the Qur'an need to be carefull not to take things out of context. Quite often a single line will have a very different concept when seen in view of the full text.

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific rather than twisting of translation to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.

He is not 'twisting' any verses from the Quran - and you should know please not to use such words since they are accusations towards a Muslim.

The verse is very clear and the explanation is clear as well.
Like the article points out extremely clearly the word "auliya" is often mistranslated to mean friends when it does not.

Always remember the Quran is in Arabic - therefore people who make translations may mistakenly use words from other languages which do not best translate the words properly

format_quote Originally Posted by nishom

In such a case where we are discussing such issues, rather than having the translation of the Quran, have the commentaryu so that the verses can be explained.

Otherwise, these verses can be interpreted in so much ways.

The only problem those of us who are Muslim often are not aware of what areas are not understood by non-Muslims. Also we are reluctant to post commentaries as to many of us that is tantamount to adding to or detracting from the Qur'an.

However, there are many frequent misconceptions that have been discussed at length on various threads. A good starting point would be to click on any of Ansar's posts and follow the excellent links he gives in the lower right of his posts.

Another good place to look is in our forum section(Basics of Islam-http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/)that is an introduction to Islam.

Hope this may be of some help.

Hi justahumane,
I have explained the historical context in the link I provided. That is why the verses were revealed, and they can be understood by non-arabs just as I have explained them in the link.

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Brother, the bottomline is that why ALLAH had to use the language and words which cant be transltated properly for the whole humankind for whom the holy book is meant. Almost all translators have used the word friends in the translation of verses in question. And what about 3:28, 4:139, and 4:144?

May I request anyone to explain to me?

I won't go into why Arabic was selected However the same problem exists in all languages. No language can be translatered accuratly into another language. Often a literal word translation results in the wrong meaning, or trying to express the meaning results in the wrong word. Some modern examples: There is no English word for the German word Weltgeist. The English word for a speed bump in the road comes out as a sleeping policeman in chinese. The conscept of a non-conformist in Chines translates into English as an unbridled horse.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Show me where any of those say we are forbidden to have a non-believer as a friend. Don't they all just say that we should not value a non-believer over a believer? Can you see any reason why we should not be forbidden to value non-believers over a believer. Is that not the same as saying to a Christian that he should not place non-Christians over his fellow Christians?

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Brother, can u further eleborate what u mean by non-believer over a believer? plz give me some example of how u view the things. Verse clearly mentions that U should not make friends among non-believer but among believers, its only ur interpretation which leads U to this context. Similer things being done by each and every person to suit his own needs and interest. Ditto for evil doers, thats the point which concerns me, can words of ALLAH be so easy to misuse to spread hatred among HIS own creations?

And plz forgive me, but using ur modus oprandi, each and every verse can be misinterpretated.

Using Ali's Translation, which I find to be one of the better ones, I can not see where any of those ayyats forbid a person from having a non-Muslim friend. Perhaps I do not understand English that well I have only been speaking it for 66 years.
All 3 of those ayyats state we should not take nonbelievers as friends rather than believers. In plain simple English we should not prefer non-Muslim friends over Muslims.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P


can words of ALLAH be so easy to misuse to spread hatred among HIS own creations?

to be honest if a person desires to spread hatred an evil doer can use anything as a tool to spread hatred. This is the price we humans pay for having free will.

Hi justahumane,
Even though I've referred you to the link, with all due respect, justahumane, it is obvious that you have not read it properly. The very FIRST point mentioned in the article on the issue was that 'Awliyah' does not correspond to the western term 'friend', and yet you repeat THE EXACT SAME MISCONCEPTION towards the end of your post. I don't have time to just repeat myself, so I was hoping you would spend some trying to understand what I wrote in the article, but I suppose things might be clearer for you if I just go through your questions and point out the facts you neglected from the article.

Brief overview - These verses speak about allying with disbelieving forces or parties against the Muslims. Friendly dealings with Non-muslims is a totally different issue and is actually something Islam advocates.

On the issue of companionship, brotherhood, etc...
Islam preserves deep bonds of brotherhood among its adherents. Muslims are united through their servitude to One God, and they support one another, helping each other strive closer in their relationship with God. A Muslim should strive to be in the company of those who will bring him closer to God and help him in his religion. It is permissable for a Muslim to keep company with a non-muslim so long as he is not negatively influences or distracted from his religious duties, but instead uses his good behavior with his companion as a means of sharing with him the beautiful teachings of Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

Brother, I think that U havent explained about all the verses in question, rather U have only explained about 5:51, isint it?

These verses are a family of verses surrounding the same issue. The same explanation applies.

That verse doesnt apply now and now we can earn bank interest which is not haram according to holy quran. Was he right?

No, he was wrong. The rulings of the Qur'an always apply, but the ruling of the verse you have asked me about is about alliance with disbelieving forces against Muslims. So that also applies today as well.

Arnt those verses wh ich forbids making friends among non-muslims relevent now and can they be disobeyed?

This is the part of your post which shows you clearly did not get ANYTHING out of the whole discussion on the meaning of Awliyah and the meaning of the verses. Please, please read carefully next time!

Thanks