I came across this hadith while browsing the forum:
Bukhari Volume 008, Book 074, Hadith Number 246.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam in his complete shape and form (directly), sixty cubits (about 30 meters) in height. When He created him, He said (to him), "Go and greet that group of angels sitting there, and listen what they will say in reply to you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your offspring." Adam (went and) said, 'As-Salamu alaikum (Peace be upon you).' They replied, 'AsSalamu-'Alaika wa Rahmatullah (Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you) So they increased 'Wa Rahmatullah' The Prophet added 'So whoever will enter Paradise, will be of the shape and form of Adam. Since then the creation of Adam's (offspring) (i.e. stature of human beings is being diminished continuously) to the present time."
Is that a reference to some kind of human evolution in the last sentence there?
Is that a part of Islamic belief?
Thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed on this.
I do think it has been mentioned in more than one place amongst Muslim Muhadeethin and Mufaseerin about the different shapes that human beings had at different times during the times of the Prophets.
While some of these stories are not authentic, the one quoted here is in Saheeh Bukhari, so its authenticity is much higher. In spite of this, I do not know of any Muslim scholar who upholds "evolution" as held by most scientists.
You can ask for further elucidation for this from more knowldegeable Muslims, but this is what I know of.
That's not evolution. That's miniaturization! Getting smaller!
And how is that odds with evolution? Evolution via natural selection maintains the survival of the fittest. If that meant that humans getting shorter in order to survive, then that is evolution.
that hadith is referring to how people at the beginning of time were taller than they are now.but as time goes by and as sin increases the people will get shorter.so i guess you can say its a kinda of evolution.
that hadith is referring to how people at the beginning of time were taller than they are now.but as time goes by and as sin increases the people will get shorter.so i guess you can say its a kinda of evolution.
Man was created tall then he kept getting shorter until now
Question:
Was man short at the time of Adam (peace be upon him) then he gradually grew taller, or was it the other way round? May Allaah reward you with good.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Allaah created Adam (peace be upon him) sixty cubits tall, then mankind gradually grew shorter until they stopped and remained as they are now. The evidence for that in the Sunnah is the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Allaah created Adam sixty cubits tall, then mankind kept getting shorter until now.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3326; Muslim, 2841). Ibn Abi Haatim narrated with a hasan isnaad from Ubayy ibn Ka’b that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah created Adam a tall man with a lot of hair on his head, as if he were a tall palm tree.”
Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Fath al-Baari:
“ ‘Mankind kept getting shorter until now’ means that each generation grew shorter than the generation before, and that decrease in height ended with this ummah, and that is how they stayed.”
And Allaah knows best. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.
Thank you for the replies. It seems very much like a kind of evolution being mentioned here. Is there evidence to support this in the fossil record? This is certainly different to the path of evolution upheld by biologists.
Is there evidence to support this in the fossil record? This is certainly different to the path of evolution upheld by biologists.
There isn't, as far as I know, and it would very hard to find, considering that the first communities of people where very, very small in number and localised in one region... (since they started with only 1 couple), and then the chances of becoming fossilised are horribly small too aren't they?
Some things we do not have sufficient knowledge in to understand fully. That does not mean we need to accept them on blind faith. It just means we do not understand.
If we find contradiction between science and the Qur'an the wise thing would be to see what errors we are making in the scientific observation.
I know mankind has fluctuated in height and continue to do so. the greatest extremes seem to be in Africa where you have both the worlds tallest ethnic group (Watusi) and the world's shortest (Baka).
Then here in Texas which in the 1500s was under Spanish rule and many suits of the Spanish Conquistadors is still in existance in museums and private homes. What is usually found odd is how small those suits of armor are. Most of them are barely large enough to fit a typical 12 year old of today.
So based on todays observations some people are getting taller again and some are getting shorter.
But, based on what is written we are all quite a bit shorter than Adam. Only time will tell if we are interpreting things correctly.
Please, no more Harun Yahya! No matter how many times people point out the errors in his work, others still insist on bringing him forward to support their arguments. If you want to find out about evolution, please - read a science book.
That is true as a biological definition of life forms. However that is not the only definition of animal. I won't insult your intelligence. I'm aware you already know the various deinitions.
In most religious concepts, including Islam the definition of Human does not meet the definition of animal.
In that case, why do we share over 90% of our DNA with chimpanzees?
Why are both schools and movie theaters made of cinder blocks? They are not the same things, but they are made of the same materials because they are functional materials.
Please, no more Harun Yahya! No matter how many times people point out the errors in his work, others still insist on bringing him forward to support their arguments. If you want to find out about evolution, please - read a science book.
I will partially agree with that statement. As Muslims we must keep in mind that sometimes our reason for a belief is not accepted by others. With that said I will say I have not found any proof in any scientific literature, I have read, that Humans descended from a non-human creature. If anyone can found specific proof that at one time humans were non-human please post it.
I have no problem with whatever changes took place in the animal world. The Qur'an makes no reference nor had any need to tell us what animals were before they became what we see today. But, the Qur'an and the ahadith are very clear that the original human and the humans of today are the same creations.
For a being that has complex social behavior, high intelligence and civilizations that span out for thousands of years of history, Man stands very far apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. Would it still be applicable for Man to be called an animal?
Unless your definition of "animal" is somehow fits the description of "global perverted permissiveness". You animal you.
first :- where are your evidences that human being are animals ???
"i never seen an animal invent a machine or write a book or even read and analyse a scientific book then explain it to audience ,i never seen an animal go to study in a university and become an engineer or a doctor or a scientist"
did you see any thing like that ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
second :- where is your scientific evidence that human share over 90% of our DNA with chimpanzees ????? i hope you dont give me theories ...
besides i till you that to have a common thing between the human and the animal is not the same as to be identical ...also that dosn't prove that one of them have evolved to the other.
and as an example you have legs and the chair has legs . does that mean that your grand grand father have evolved into chair (no offence i am just giving and example)
third :- show me the errors in Harun yahya's work ,are you saying he lies when he quote the verses from scientists books and speeches ????
show me the evidence .....
finally i want to ask you do you know arabic language ???
We're off-topic here, but since you brought it up...
format_quote Originally Posted by hemoo
first :- where are your evidences that human being are animals ???
Biologists classify humans as animals and have done for decades. We are mammals, like the apes and many other creatures.
"i never seen an animal invent a machine or write a book or even read and analyse a scientific book then explain it to audience ,i never seen an animal go to study in a university and become an engineer or a doctor or a scientist"
did you see any thing like that ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is that supposed to be an argument?
second :- where is your scientific evidence that human share over 90% of our DNA with chimpanzees ????? i hope you dont give me theories ...
See here for one example of what is a very well established biological fact:
Sister grouping of chimpanzees and humans as revealed by genome-wide phylogenetic analysis of brain gene expression profiles.
* Uddin M,
* Wildman DE,
* Liu G,
* Xu W,
* Johnson RM,
* Hof PR,
* Kapatos G,
* Grossman LI,
* Goodman M.
Center for Molecular Medicine and Genetics, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, Wayne State University School of Medicine, 540 East Canfield Avenue, Detroit, MI 48201, USA.
Gene expression profiles from the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) of human, chimpanzee, gorilla, and macaque samples provide clues about genetic regulatory changes in human and other catarrhine primate brains. The ACC, a cerebral neocortical region, has human-specific histological features. Physiologically, an individual's ACC displays increased activity during that individual's performance of cognitive tasks. Of approximately 45,000 probe sets on microarray chips representing transcripts of all or most human genes, approximately 16,000 were commonly detected in human ACC samples and comparable numbers, 14,000-15,000, in gorilla and chimpanzee ACC samples. Phylogenetic results obtained from gene expression profiles contradict the traditional expectation that the non-human African apes (i.e., chimpanzee and gorilla) should be more like each other than either should be like humans. Instead, the chimpanzee ACC profiles are more like the human than like the gorilla; these profiles demonstrate that chimpanzees are the sister group of humans. Moreover, for those unambiguous expression changes mapping to important biological processes and molecular functions that statistically are significantly represented in the data, the chimpanzee clade shows at least as much apparent regulatory evolution as does the human clade. Among important changes in the ancestry of both humans and chimpanzees, but to a greater extent in humans, are the up-regulated expression profiles of aerobic energy metabolism genes and neuronal function-related genes, suggesting that increased neuronal activity required increased supplies of energy.
besides i till you that to have a common thing between the human and the animal is not the same as to be identical
How can two different classes be identical? That would make them the same class. I'm confused.
...also that dosn't prove that one of them have evolved to the other.
I wasn't aware that chimps had evolved into humans. Who claimed they did?
and as an example you have legs and the chair has legs . does that mean that your grand grand father have evolved into chair (no offence i am just giving and example)
We were talking about genetics here, not legs. You claimed:
this is also clear on the genetics side that animals are animals and humans are humans this is the way that Allah created them.
implying that there is not common genetic ground between humans and animals. I have proven that this is not so.
third :- show me the errors in Harun yahya's work ,are you saying he lies when he quote the verses from scientists books and speeches ????
show me the evidence .....
Sometimes untruths appear in his work due to ignorance, and he often uses quotes in a misleading way.
Incidentally, I doubt that Harun Yahya is actually one person, but that's a side issue.
I've taken issue with his writings several times on the forum, and I'm not about to do so again, because life is short. I will, however, try and find those old threads so you can have a look.
As people have mentioned that hadeeth you quoted is not in reference to evolution. The teaching of Islam contradicts the evolution theory, the basic principles in evolution is juxtaposed with Islam and it is evidently clear that there is a clash. However, Islam merely disagrees with the evolution of human but it is possible that plants may have evolved.
Islam states that Adam was the first human to be created while Evolution suggest that everything around us is the result of spontenous evolving from a single amoeba. The law of entropy is completely ignored in evolution, it seems that evolution actually contradicts with basic teachings of biology like all cells have to come from other cells yet a huge exception has been made for this theory. Are we really that keen to be closely related to chimpaneze? I'd be intrigued to know what is the common ancestor between humans and chimps, should be interesting when it is discovered.
As I understand it, the "theory of evolution" propogated by the likes of Darwin is not only scientifically fallacious it is also in direct conflict with the teachings of Holy Quran which state categorically that Hadhrat Nabi Adam [alaihi salam] is the first human being created by Allah Tala, and was created from dust (3:59). Bible also mentions how Adam was created from soil (Genesis 2:7), and Eve was created from his rib.
Allah Tala also created Hadhrat Nabi Adam [alaihi salam] sixty cubits tall, which is approximately 120 feet. The successive generations of humans were created shorter directly by Allah, but this process has stopped, which means that it cannot be considered as "evolution".
As people have mentioned that hadeeth you quoted is not in reference to evolution. The teaching of Islam contradicts the evolution theory, the basic principles in evolution is juxtaposed with Islam and it is evidently clear that there is a clash. However, Islam merely disagrees with the evolution of human but it is possible that plants may have evolved.
Have you ever taken a science class, sister? Evolution and Islam are interwined. We see evolution occuring all around us, how can you deny that its existance?
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