× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last
Results 1 to 20 of 40 visibility 5952

To The Death

  1. #1
    Asyur an-Nagi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    on the gurney
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    481
    Threads
    7
    Rep Power
    109
    Rep Ratio
    21
    Likes Ratio
    0

    To The Death

    Report bad ads?

    This is written by John Lloyd (title: To the Death, at www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree). And hey, i found my 'dearest' friend Hei Gou there and John Lloyd is HeiGou's new hero I just want to see some opinons about this. thanks.

    TO THE DEATH
    The competing explanations for a resort to terrorism are many, but you can more or less group them round two poles.

    One of these was vividly expressed in the Guardian last Saturday by Karen Armstrong. Tony Blair had been wrong, she said, to call for moderate Muslims to act and speak out more decisively against radical Islamists. He had missed the point: all Muslims, moderate or radical, were deeply stirred by the sufferings of their co-religionists in Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib, Iraq and Palestine, and the "strong emphasis placed by Islam on justice and community solidarity" made this a religious issue.

    "It is disingenuous of Tony Blair," she wrote, "to separate the rising tide of 'Islamism' from his unpopular foreign policy, particularly when Palestinians are being subjected to new dangers in Gaza."

    This pole is defined, roughly, by the belief that it is the west's, or America's, fault that radical Islamists are violent. While violence may be wrong - Armstrong certainly believes that - it takes its root and justifies itself in its own eyes in the empathy with the victims of, and anger with, the West's actions.

    The other pole has been evoked, at least as vividly, by an ex-Muslim, now a non-believer: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somalian-born Dutch MP whose apostasy (as many of her former co-religionists saw it) and outspoken criticisms of Islam earned her death threats and police protection. Further, a campaign against her in the Netherlands mounted by some elements in the left saw her temporarily stripped of her citizenship, a move that was the main cause of the collapse of the country's centre-right coalition last month.

    Hirsi Ali has written a book (The Caged Virgin: A Muslim Woman's Cry for Reason) arguing that the position of women in Muslim societies and communities is one of largely unrelieved oppression tolerated and even encouraged by their own families. She writes: "Most Muslim families regard violence against women as something that women themselves provoke because they don't follow the rules. The family and social environment do not disapprove of it."
    In an appearance on BBC Radio 4.s Start the Week programme on Monday, Hirsi Ali said: "Muslim women must remain virgins, and are confined to their houses; they are beaten; they can be murdered in honour killings and suffer mutilation." She criticised the western states for "not standing up for their values"; for not appealing to Muslims on the basis of their intelligence and reason but rather excusing their excesses on the basis of tolerance.

    In Hirsi Ali's view, the driver of Muslim intolerance is Islam itself, both in its traditions, and in its new (in existence for the past half century or more) radical form, that of Islamism. This ideology has been fashioned in the past few decades, by such figures as the Pakistani Abu Ala Mawdudi and the Egyptians Hasan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The first of these was the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the next two were executed at different times by the Egyptian authorities and the third became the main adviser to the Saudi Osama bin Laden.

    These men based their teachings on an interpretation - they would claim a strict and literal interpretation - of the Qur'an and Islamic law, as transmitted by the great scholars. Ala Mawdudi, for example, begins his essay on apostasy with the flat statement:

    To everyone acquainted with Islamic law it is no secret that according to Islam the punishment for a Muslim who turns to kufr (infidelity, blasphemy) is execution ... The whole of our religious literature clearly testifies that ambiguity about the matter of the apostate's execution never existed among Muslims. The expositions of the Prophet, the Rightly-Guided Caliphs (Khulafa'-i Rashidun), the great Companions (Sahaba) of the Prophet, their Followers (Tabi'un), the leaders among the mujahids and, following them, the doctors of the sharia of every century are available on record. All these collectively will assure you that from the time of the Prophet to the present day one injunction only has been continuously and uninterruptedly operative and that no room whatever remains to suggest that perhaps the punishment of the apostate is not execution".


    Hassan al-Banna was even more categorical: "It is the nature of Islam," he wrote, "to dominate, not to be dominated; to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet."

    This, Hirsi believes, is the basis of radical Islamism: an ideology that sought to pit it directly and violently against the other religions, especially the other monotheistic religions of Christianity and Judaism.

    Radical Islamism, on this reading, does indeed, find rationales for its hatred of the west: in the existence and actions of Israel, in the actions of the US/the west in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, and in the scandals of Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. But these are not the fundamental reasons, any more than the effects of the Versailles treaty "created" Nazism, or the assistance given to the Whites by the British and the French after the Russian revolution "caused" the Bolsheviks to hate cosmopolitanism and democracy.

    In a wonderful just-published, piece of reportage on the development of al-Qaeda, The Looming Tower, the New Yorker writer Lawrence Wright gives due weight to the ideology, a necessary compliment to the tenacious dedication of these men to the bloody cause they created. In a fine passage, he writes of Qutb that: :

    His extraordinary project, which is still emerging, was to take apart the entire political and philosophical structure of modernity and return Islam to its unpolluted origins. For him, that was a state of divine oneness, the complete unity of God and humanity. Separation of the sacred and the secular, state and religion, science and theology, mind and spirit - these were the hallmarks of modernity, which had captured the west. But Islam could not abide such divisions. In Islam, he believed, divinity could not be diminished without being destroyed. Islam was total and uncompromising. It was God's final word. Muslims had forgotten this in their enchantment with the west. Only by restoring Islam to the centre of their lives, their laws, and their government could Muslims hope to recapture their rightful place as the dominant culture in the world. That was their duty, not only to themselves but to God.


    I am with Hirsi Ali on this. As I argued in a piece on Ken Loach's film The Wind that Shakes the Barley on Cif two weeks ago, ideology - uncompromising, appealing to purity of thought and action, murderous - is required to give real or imagined wrongs a framework, a cause and both a battle cry and a battle order. You must fight for something as well as against something. And one of the most powerful of such ideologies has been, in very different forms, an appeal to oneness: oneness of nation and ethnos (Nazism); one-ness of class and party (communism) and oneness of faith, state and thought (Islamism).

    The ability to dehumanise large tracts of fellow human beings, because they are non-Aryan, or bourgeois, or non-Muslim, lends great strength to the cause: strength enough to cause adherents to gladly murder, and willingly die, for it.
    To The Death

    to you your religion and to me my religion
    may we all learn on our chosen paths, and in all things, blessed be


    the patients sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because the dentists stand ready to do violence on their behalf
    chat Quote

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    borboski's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    104
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    I'm here to find out about Islam. What it does seem to me, without having looked into the Koran yet, is that there are indeed (as with the Old and New Testament) some VERY worrying things in there. The ones that bother me most are:
    - Specifying murder for apostacy
    - Antisemiticism

    On the other hand, it makes sense to me that people take their founding documents seriously... can I ask if many muslims don't take the Koran that seriously, but basically conclude that it was written so long ago, and that much of it isn't applicable to a modern society? I hope that is the case, if not, then the best muslims (in my eyes) are probably the ones that aren't very good muslims in the eyes of the Koran...

    Me, I agree with Hirsi Ali. I'd say that on a forum, but in public I would favour the other view - appealing to mainstream muslims. It simply can't help to label all muslims with brush of potential terrorist.
    chat Quote

  4. #3
    barney's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,418
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    37
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    Now I cant remember if it was a Hadith or just jurisprudence but i read that an apostate man had 3 days to reconsider his blasphemy, and if so he could return to islam,(possibly paying jiza and having some restrictions on his rights?), a woman should still be killed. It's a long time since I read it.

    Any ideas?
    To The Death

    Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005
    Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
    chat Quote

  5. #4
    Joe98's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,106
    Threads
    46
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    No need to refute the post at the top of this thread. It is a wonderful post.

    All Muslims should read it. People of the west already know what it says.
    chat Quote

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    snakelegs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    5,742
    Threads
    110
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    51
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    this is a good topic. why have only non-muslims replied?
    To The Death

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
    image06 1 - To The Death
    chat Quote

  8. #6
    barney's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,418
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    37
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    Deleted due to Link that has been blocked. it's not porn or images that are offensive. It was just a site where apostates told of their experiences.

    Hmm..

    OK
    Last edited by barney; 04-03-2007 at 09:34 PM.
    To The Death

    Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005
    Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
    chat Quote

  9. #7
    barney's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,418
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    37
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    Deleted due to link that the forum seems to want to ban.
    To The Death

    Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005
    Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
    chat Quote

  10. #8
    Skywalker's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    443
    Threads
    25
    Rep Power
    107
    Rep Ratio
    45
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    Hirsi Ali comes off as a bit un-informed, to say the least. Her book about "Muslim women being opressed" and all that seems like typical ignorance you get from "apostates", or mischievious twists of facts that we get once in a while. I mean come on, you read the words "honor killing" and "Islam" in the same sentence and you know that the writer is uninformed.

    As for apostasy, actually barney, it IS negotiable. We discussed it in detail in this thread, and we all came to the conclusion that execution of apostates is not unconditional, which means that most "regular apostates" are not to be killed; only those who fit a certain criteria.

    format_quote Originally Posted by borboski
    - Antisemiticism
    Just curious, how does Islam promote anti-semitism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by borboski
    On the other hand, it makes sense to me that people take their founding documents seriously... can I ask if many muslims don't take the Koran that seriously, but basically conclude that it was written so long ago, and that much of it isn't applicable to a modern society? I hope that is the case, if not, then the best muslims (in my eyes) are probably the ones that aren't very good muslims in the eyes of the Koran...
    Actually, I don't think you can call Osama Bin-Laden's interpretation of the Qur'an a "strict, literal" interpretation, but more of an uneducated, ignorant interpretation. He is no scholar, therefore he doesn't understand the meaning of each passage in context of the whole message of Islam (the entire Qu'ran and the Sunnah). Taking one line out of a 600+ page book and guessing that it means something out of ignorance does not make him credible in the least.

    My belief is that the Qur'an is timeless; it can be applied at any point in history, but the trick is to understand it properly so that you would be able to integrate it into modern society.
    Last edited by Skywalker; 04-04-2007 at 02:11 PM.
    To The Death

    I have the best signature on this forum!
    chat Quote

  11. #9
    Muezzin's Avatar Jewel of IB
    brightness_1
    Bat-Mod
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    10,763
    Threads
    180
    Rep Power
    159
    Rep Ratio
    63
    Likes Ratio
    8

    Re: To The Death

    I agree that Muslims have to stop blaming external forces for our own flaws and actually improve.

    I disagree with the barely veiled Muslim-bashing, but what the hell, now I know how it feels to be Jewish.

    I would like to add something to this statement:

    'And one of the most powerful of such ideologies has been, in very different forms, an appeal to oneness: oneness of nation and ethnos (Nazism); one-ness of class and party (communism) and oneness of faith, state and thought (Islamism).'

    Surely oneness of economy (globalisation) belongs on that list too?
    chat Quote

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    borboski's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    104
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    Hmm. It doesn't fill me full of confidence that "you discussed it on another thread and decided that most apostates are not to be killed, only some that meet certain criteria".

    But to address the point of antisemiticism (and I don't think you need the "-"), it's absolutely my understanding that Islam and antisemiticism are linked, so I'd be very hopeful to find out I was wrong. One of the things I will do is read the Koran at some point.

    Many of the posts here state that the Koran is the *literal* word of god, given to Mo. I'm very pleased if we can fudge the matter and say "ah, you have to look at the Koran in it's totality". It appears numerous version of the Koran existed, which were collated, which would explain illogical inconsistencies, right?

    But, how can you ignore some of these statemets?

    And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected. Qur'an 2:65

    The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement. (That sounds terrible, very mean).

    And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.

    What are the hadiths? Are these not taken so seriously? They appear to include statements like:
    "A Jew will not be found alone with a Muslim without plotting to kill him."
    "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.'"(That one in the Hamas charter).

    Plus you know Hirsi Ali is a woman, right, I assume that was just a typo? She came across very well on an interview I heard - very articulate, reflective and reasonable.
    chat Quote

  14. #11
    snakelegs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    5,742
    Threads
    110
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    51
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    format_quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
    Deleted due to Link that has been blocked. it's not porn or images that are offensive. It was just a site where apostates told of their experiences.

    Hmm..

    OK
    would you really expect an islamic website to want to read about what-all apostates think is wrong with islam?
    it is not hard to find such groups on the web.
    To The Death

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
    image06 1 - To The Death
    chat Quote

  15. #12
    snakelegs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    5,742
    Threads
    110
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    51
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    never mind the rest of what hirsi ali said.
    do you (muslims) think there is any truth in this: (particularly in the comment about "islamism".
    In Hirsi Ali's view, the driver of Muslim intolerance is Islam itself, both in its traditions, and in its new (in existence for the past half century or more) radical form, that of Islamism. This ideology has been fashioned in the past few decades, by such figures as the Pakistani Abu Ala Mawdudi and the Egyptians Hasan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The first of these was the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the next two were executed at different times by the Egyptian authorities and the third became the main adviser to the Saudi Osama bin Laden.
    to me it seems that there is some truth in both positions.
    but personally, i am more interested in what muslims have to say.
    To The Death

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
    image06 1 - To The Death
    chat Quote

  16. #13
    Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Tu kaun hai paiiii?
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nu Yawk
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,218
    Threads
    74
    Rep Power
    132
    Rep Ratio
    45
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: To The Death

    I've heard some of her talks and she stated that we cant blame the Christians in totality for what happened in the past in the West. She goes on to say how much the West has progressed since then. but yet on the other hand, she does the opposite with Islam and Muslims? She is FULL of lies. There is no place for honor killings in Islam, yet she is linking the two together Because of her bad experience, which she did not deserve, she is blaming the rest of the Muslim population and Islam. She went on to say that there arent any intelligent and rational people in Muslims? How bogus can she get.
    Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 04-04-2007 at 05:57 AM.
    To The Death

    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
    chat Quote

  17. #14
    snakelegs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    5,742
    Threads
    110
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    51
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    to boil it down a bit more:
    the main thing i am curious about what do the muslim members think of making a distinction between "traditional islam" and its "radical form - islamism."
    do you think it is a completely false distinction?
    thanks.
    To The Death

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
    image06 1 - To The Death
    chat Quote

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    north_malaysian's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Penang Island, Malaysia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    8,215
    Threads
    219
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    30
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    format_quote Originally Posted by borboski View Post
    it's absolutely my understanding that Islam and antisemiticism are linked

    Those hatred towards the Jews in Islam is only focused on the bad Jews... not the good Jews..... (majority of them are good)
    To The Death

    Assalamualaykum... I am back!!
    chat Quote

  20. #16
    khushnood's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    india
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    133
    Threads
    5
    Rep Power
    109
    Rep Ratio
    10
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is simply ignorant about the teachings of islam.just because of a few personal unfortunate incidents she goes on to blame islam and the islamic society.ok,the islamic society is not flawless,but then no other society is.she always tries to be in news,whether its some anti islamic campaign or or an anti islamic movie(remember the movie with her director friend Van Gogh).
    chat Quote

  21. #17
    borboski's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    104
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian View Post
    Those hatred towards the Jews in Islam is only focused on the bad Jews... not the good Jews..... (majority of them are good)
    Can you explain what is a bad "jew"? I know someone referred to a discussion on another thread.

    Why would you need to distinguish between a bad "jew" and a bad person. Are bad jews worse than normal bad people, or better? The least you can say is that Koran focuses in particular upon jewish people, for some reason.
    chat Quote

  22. #18
    north_malaysian's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Penang Island, Malaysia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    8,215
    Threads
    219
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    30
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: To The Death

    format_quote Originally Posted by borboski View Post
    Can you explain what is a bad "jew"? I know someone referred to a discussion on another thread.

    Why would you need to distinguish between a bad "jew" and a bad person. Are bad jews worse than normal bad people, or better? The least you can say is that Koran focuses in particular upon jewish people, for some reason.
    bad jews = bad muslims

    good jews = good muslims

    God loves the Jews people, he is giving final warning to the bad Jews to behave good....
    To The Death

    Assalamualaykum... I am back!!
    chat Quote

  23. #19
    borboski's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    104
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    format_quote Originally Posted by khushnood View Post
    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is simply ignorant about the teachings of islam.just because of a few personal unfortunate incidents she goes on to blame islam and the islamic society.ok,the islamic society is not flawless,but then no other society is.she always tries to be in news,whether its some anti islamic campaign or or an anti islamic movie(remember the movie with her director friend Van Gogh).
    In the interview I read (about female genital mutilation) she argued very coherently that by no means was this solely a part of Islam, and in fact, within Islam there was no real justification for it. However, currently, many muslims do practice this and feel that it is central to their faith (especially in the developing world).

    I don't know what you mean "always tries to be in the news", she's not going on Big Brother, is she? If I was campaigning to stop genital mutilation - and I feel guilty that I don't having typed that - I would be trying to have my case heard in every arena.

    Saying that Islamic society is not flawless - but no other society is - is not an argument against criticism, it's just a apathetic state of mind, lazy bones! I'm not going to excuse rising inequalities in life expectancy in the UK - just because Iran executes gay teenagers and I think that's worse. Hope
    chat Quote

  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    borboski's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    104
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: To The Death

    Northmalaysian - are you then saying that a good jew actually is a muslim, after all, and there shouldn't be any real difference if there are practicing their faith properly?
    chat Quote


  26. Hide
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last
Hey there! To The Death Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. To The Death
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Death of a God?
    By barney in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-25-2008, 03:20 PM
  2. ur msg before death...
    By truemuslim in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-15-2008, 04:09 PM
  3. Replies: 60
    Last Post: 07-28-2007, 01:09 AM
  4. Death
    By Bittersteel in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-19-2006, 04:54 PM
  5. The Effects of Death on those Left Behind: In Light of the Death of Shaykh Badee-ud-D
    By madeenahsh in forum Islamic History and Biographies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-19-2006, 04:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create