are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here) (OP)
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Fateh
are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
Originally posted by hacyec
I believe it says in the Qur'an that there are Muslims even withing the people of the book, people who are considered Muslims. Remember that the biggest sin is to commit Shirk, do Jews do this? I was Catholic and the only time I commited something Shirk was when I was a child, but then learned to think otherwise. Personally, yes I believe that Jew's, Christians, and of course Muslims will go to heaven as long as they deserve it of course, a pious Jew is much more deserving of heaven than a murderous Muslim, you get what I mean? But all is in Allah's hands in the end brother's and sisters, salaam.
Answer by Al-Fateh
not Jew, no Christian, no other religion will have its followers go to heaven
this is agains the Quran
At-Tahreem - (The Prohibition)
Recitation: [66:7] English Yusuf Ali: [66:7]
(They will say), "O ye Unbelievers! Make no excuses this Day! Ye are being but requited for all that ye did!"
[7:36] English Yusuf Ali: [7:36]
But those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance,- they are companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for ever).
[2:39] English Yusuf Ali: [2:39]
"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
[2:257] English Yusuf Ali: [2:257]
Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).
[43:77] English Yusuf Ali: [43:77]
They will cry: "O Malik! would that thy Lord put an end to us!" He will say, "Nay, but ye shall abide!"
[64:10] English Yusuf Ali: [64:10]
But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye: and evil is that Goal.
moreover....
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Fateh
[6:128] English Yusuf Ali: [6:128]
One day will He gather them all together, (and say): "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say: "Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.
this verse is very misunderstood by MANY muslims....
Tafsir Al-Jalalayn
و اذكر يوم نحشرهم بالنون والياء أي الله الخلق جميعا ويقال لهم يا معشر الجن قد استكثرتم من الإنس بإغوائكم وقال أولياؤهم الذين أطاعوهم من الإنس ربنا استمتع بعضنا ببعض انتفع الإنس بتزيين الجن لهم الشهوات والجن بطاعة الإنس لهم . وبلغنا أجلنا الذي أجلت لنا وهو يوم القيامة وهذا تحسر منهم قال تعالى لهم على لسان الملائكة: النار مثواكم مأواكم خالدين فيها إلا ما شاء الله من الأوقات التي يخرجون فيها لشرب الحميم فإنه خارجها كما قال تعالى ثم إن مرجعهم لإلى الجحيم وعن ابن عباس انه فيمن علم الله أنهم يؤمنون فما بمعنى من إن ربك حكيم في صنعه عليم بخلقه
Al-Qurtubi
خالدين فيها إلا ما شاء الله استثناء ليس من الأول. قال الزجاج : يرجع إلى يوم القيامة، أي خالدين في النار إلا ما شاء الله من مقدار حشرهم من قبورهم ومقدار مدتهم في الحساب، فالاستثناء منقطع. وقيل: يرجع الاستثناء إلى النار، أي إلا ما شاء الله من تعذيبكم بغير النار في بعض الأوقات. وقال ابن عباس: الاستثناء لأهل الإيمان. فــما على هذا بمعنى من. وعنه أيضاً أنه قال: هذه الآية توجب الوقف في جميع الكفار. ومعنى ذلك أنها توجب الوقف فيمن لم يمت، إذ قد يسلم. وقيل: إلا ما شاء الله من كونهم في الدنيا بغير عذاب. ومعنى هذه الآية معنى الآية التي في هود. قوله: فأما الذين شقوا ففي النار وهناك يأتي مستوفىً إن شاء الله. إن ربك حكيم أي في عقوبتهم وفي جميع أفعاله عليم [هود: 106] بمقدار مجازاتهم.
And, mention, the day when He, God, shall gather them (yahshuruhum, may also read nahshuruhum, 'We shall gather them'), that is, creatures, all together, and it will be said to them: 'O assembly of jinn, you have garnered much of mankind', by your misleading [them]. Then their friends, those who obeyed them, from among mankind will say, 'Our Lord, we enjoyed one another, mankind enjoyed what the jinn adorned for them of passions, while the jinn [enjoyed] mankind's obedience to them; but now we have arrived at the term which You have appointed for us', that is, the Day of Resurrection - this [statement] expresses extreme regret on their part. He, exalted be He, will say, to them, by the tongues of the angels: 'The Fire is your lodging, your abode, to abide therein' - except what God wills, of those times when they will exit from it in order to drink boiling water, which is located outside it, as God, exalted be He, has said: Then they shall return to the Hell-fire [Q. 37:68]; according to Ibn 'Abbās, this [proviso] pertains to those whom God knows will believe (mā, 'what', thus has the sense of man, 'whom'). Surely your Lord is Wise, in His actions, Knowing, of His creatures.
(In the day when He will gather them together) the Jinn and human beings ((He will say): O ye assembly of the Jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce) how many human beings have erred by seeking help in you. (And their adherents) the adherents of the Jinn (among humankind) who sought help in the leaders of the Jinn upon camping at a valley or hunting a beast of theirs, used to say: 'we seek refuge in the master of this valley from the foolish among his people', and used to feel safe after saying this, (will say: Our Lord!) O our Lord! (We enjoyed one another) we benefited from one another; the benefit of the human beings was safety from the Jinn, and that of the Jinn, their status and position among their people (but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us) i.e. death. (He) Allah (will say) to them: (Fire is your home) is your dwelling, O group of Jinn. (Abide therein for ever) abiding in the Fire, (save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver)) but Allah wills that they abide therein for eternity. (Lo! thy Lord is Wise) He decreed that they will abide in Hell for ever, (Aware) of them and of their punishment.
So we take Mohammad for his word that he spoke to God?
Jospeh Smith makes the same claim in Mormonism.
Then you gota see what Joseph smith came up with. Right? See the message and see if it truely is a way of life which brings good for billions of people. Then compare it to the Qur'an for yourself. This is when your sincerety comes into it.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Then you gota see what Joseph smith came up with. Right? See the message and see if it truely is a way of life which brings good for billions of people. Then compare it to the Qur'an for yourself. This is when your sincerety comes into it.
I have done, so and both books make claims which they cannot prove to me. Of course one may make more sense, but I don't see how making sense is proof.
Inshallah the bro Fisbalililah will help out inshallah
1st point
We say about Allah's unity believing by Allah's help - that Allah is One, without any partners.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Brother al fateh, the Qur'an is a guidance for all of mankind. It is a book of guidance, and whether a believer or non believer reads it - it will have an impact on them since the Qur'an is for all of mankind. Whether one is a believer or non believer, the message is for them. The logic and fitrah [natural dispositon God has created us in] fit in together with man in order to help them understand the Qur'an and reflect upon it to see their real purpose.
By reading the Qur'an man gains faith, instead of simply needing faith to understand Qur'an - if you get what i mean.
Amen
This is a reasoneble statement ... you mite just have it.
I dont know if you can answer this because ... are there any others that fit this discription?
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
If you believe in one God then obviously there is nothing like him.
ok, hold ur horses, and when we say there is nothing like him , we differ with what others attribute Allah with.
some of which we know they attribute Allah by having a son, or by Allah being a light, or by Allah being the holy spirit, or by Allah being among us on earth. so if we were to affirm that there is nothing like him, it is logical to say, that he is unlike his creation... agreed? cz everything i mentioned is a creation...
which takes us back on affirming even more the first point...
We say about Allah's unity believing by Allah's help - that Allah is One, without any partners.
being unlike any other also means, he has no partners , and he is one, and that we need out creator, while he doesnt need us, cz he created us.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by AB517
Amen
This is a reasoneble statement ... you mite just have it.
I dont know if you can answer this because ... are there any others that fit this discription?
AB517
Try listening to the Qur'an in the arabic language, with a translation in english - verse by verse:
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Allaah is the Creator of all things.
You actually believe that meat came before animals?
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I said we use a sharp knife so it causes the least pain to the animal. And Allaah out of His eternal Wisdom has made certain meats permissible for us due to health benefits etc.
This is where the problem is...
You, as a Muslim, do understand that causing pain in wrong, right? Apparently, that's why you are supposed to use sharper knife, to minimize pain because even Muslims understand that unnecessarily causing pain is wrong.
Logically thinking, if causing pain is wrong, what's even better than causing a little pain? I would think causing no pain at all is better than causing even a little pain.
So, if your religion were the best, shouldn't it be preaching not to kill or cause killing of animals unless there is no other way to survive? Since it doesn't preach that, apparently, there is a better way to live a spiritual life than your religion.
Don't worry, I often have the same problem when I go to one of the Sikh sites, but, I am pretty sure you remember you gave me infraction points for mentioning the truth about your religion. In other words, truth is not acceptable to you. Those, who are offended by truth and try to hide it, are not truthful people.
It doesn't take genius to figure out that in spiritual word, you must be the most honest and truthful person.
So, obviously there is a better spiritual path than the spiritual path you follow.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
And Allaah out of His eternal Wisdom has made certain meats permissible for us due to health benefits etc.
How selfish!!! All you think of is yourself, no mercy for animals. Spirituality isn't about being selfish, is it?
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Submission to God means to submit to Allaah in the way He wants you to submit to Him. So it means to obey His Messenger (peace be upon him.) In our case, anyone who has lived after Muhammad (peace be upon him) recieved the revelation, then they will be brought forth and be responsible in the sight of God on whether they obeyed him or not. If they submitted and obeyed - their reward is with Allaah, if they rejected it when it became clear to them, then know that this life is only temporary, and you will without a doubt return to your Lord and be accountable for your ownselves.
If my views contradict with your views, how does it even make sense for me to follow your path, especially when I know there is a better path.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
You actually believe that meat came before animals?
I simply stated that Allaah created all things, i never said which came before the other. Because i don't know the answer, what did God create first - the meat of the animal, or the animal itself?
If we say the animal was created first, we have to question how the animal was made; was it made without the bones being covered in flesh/meat at the beginning?
If that's the case, then the meat was created first. And Allaah knows best.
This is where the problem is...
You, as a Muslim, do understand that causing pain in wrong, right? Apparently, that's why you are supposed to use sharper knife, to minimum pain because even Muslims understand that unnecessarily causing pain is wrong.
Logically thinking, if causing pain is wrong, what's even better than causing a little pain? I would think causing no pain at all is better than causing even a little pain.
So, if your religion were the best, shouldn't it preaching not to kill or cause killing of animals unless there is no other way to survive? Since it doesn't preach that, apparently, there is a better way to live a spiritual life than your religion.
Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?
Don't worry, I often have the same problem when I go to one of the Sikh sites, but, I am pretty sure you remember you gave me infraction points for mentioning the truth about your religion. In other words, truth is not acceptable to you. Those, who are offended by truth and try to hide it, are not truthful people.
Oh ok, so theres a difference of opinion among sikhis too on whether eating meat is allowed or not?
And no i never gave you infractions for 'telling the truth' about my religion, i gave you the infraction because you spread propaganda about it by distorting the facts.
It doesn't take genius to figure out that in spiritual word, you must be the most honest and truthful person.
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavours to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps telling lies and endeavours to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah.
So, obviously there is a better spiritual path than the spiritual path you follow.
How so?
How selfish!!! All you think of is yourself, no mercy for animals. Spirituality isn't about being selfish, is it?
I've stated before, it hardly causes pain to the animals. Allaah has created for us some animals to eat, some to ride, and they are bestowed upon us as a blessing from Allaah. And we've used science to prove that it is healthy for humans to eat meat, infact it causes those who don't eat meat to have negative side effects:
It is well established that eating meat improves the quality of nutrition, strengthens the immune system, promotes normal growth and development, is beneficial for day-to-day health, energy and well-being, and helps ensure optimal learning and academic performance.”
- “The long-term Bogalusa Heart Study finds that children who eat more meat are less likely to have deficiencies than those who eat little or no meat. Kids who don’t eat meat — and especially if they restrict other foods, as many girls are doing — are more likely to feel tired, apathetic, unable to concentrate, are sick more often, more frequently depressed, and are the most likely to be malnourished and have stunted growth.Meat and other animal-source foods are the building blocks of healthy growth that have made America’s youngsters among the tallest, strongest and healthiest in the world.”
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I simply stated that Allaah created all things, i never said which came before the other. Because i don't know the answer, what did God create first - the meat of the animal, or the animal itself?
If we say the animal was created first, we have to question how the animal was made; was it made without the bones being covered in flesh/meat at the beginning?
If that's the case, then the meat was created first. And Allaah knows best.
Or maybe because animals and people were not created instantly. Maybe theory of evolution correct...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?
As far as I understand a Sikh should eat meat only if there is no other way to survive. That's why most Baptized Sikhs are vegetarians.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Oh ok, so theres a difference of opinion among sikhis too on whether eating meat is allowed or not?
And no i never gave you infractions for 'telling the truth' about my religion, i gave you the infraction because you spread propaganda about it by distorting the facts.
Yes the meat issue and also other political issues. When I try to post something about wrongdoings of some of the so-called Sikh leaders, they won't allow me post.
No, there was no distorting. What I said was all facts...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
How so?
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I've stated before, it hardly causes pain to the animals. Allaah has created for us some animals to eat, some to ride, and they are bestowed upon us as a blessing from Allaah. And we've used science to prove that it is healthy for humans to eat meat, infact it causes those who don't eat meat to have negative side effects:
It is well established that eating meat improves the quality of nutrition, strengthens the immune system, promotes normal growth and development, is beneficial for day-to-day health, energy and well-being, and helps ensure optimal learning and academic performance.”
- “The long-term Bogalusa Heart Study finds that children who eat more meat are less likely to have deficiencies than those who eat little or no meat. Kids who don’t eat meat — and especially if they restrict other foods, as many girls are doing — are more likely to feel tired, apathetic, unable to concentrate, are sick more often, more frequently depressed, and are the most likely to be malnourished and have stunted growth.Meat and other animal-source foods are the building blocks of healthy growth that have made America’s youngsters among the tallest, strongest and healthiest in the world.”
Anyway, maybe you could provide evidence from your scripture which prohibits the eating of meat.
Thanks in advance.
Hardly pain is not same as no pain at all. So if there a million dollar belonging to someone else sitting in front of you, are you going to take just because it's good for you. Meat is the same way. If you can survive without causing pain to animals, you should try avoiding unnecessarily killing animals...
Actually it was Kabir Sahib (who was born in Muslim family), who said that you don't even think of how animals suffer when you are killing animals making it a religious practice.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Or maybe because animals and people were not created instantly. Maybe theory of evolution correct...
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Qur'an 52: 36-7]
As far as I understand a Sikh should eat meat only if there is no other way to survive. That's why most Baptized Sikhs are vegetarians.
Yes the meat issue and also other political issues. When I try to post something about wrongdoings of some of the so-called Sikh leaders, they won't allow me post.
No, there was no distorting. What I said was all facts...
Please, post me proof from your scripture.
Hardly pain is not same as no pain at all. So if there a million dollar belonging to someone else sitting in front of you, are you going to take just because it's good for you. Meat is the same way. If you can survive without causing pain to animals, you should try avoiding unnecessarily killing animals...
If Allaah has permitted meat for us, the same way He has permitted for us the riding of animals (which might cause a slight pain to the animal you're riding), or even the milking of a cow for example (which might also cause a slight pain when one milks it) - then there is nothing wrong with that.
The killing of an innocent soul is forbidden by Allaah anyway:
"If anyone slew an innocent person it would be as if he slew the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind"
[Al-Qur’an 5:32]
Actually it was Kabir Sahib (who was born in Muslim family), who said that you don't even think of how animals suffer when you are killing animals making it a religious practice.
Trust me, they don't feel it hardly at all, i already explained to you the concept of cutting the aorta, since that causes the least pain to the animal and its over before they know it. And it's much more humane compared to the methods of electrocution which is a common method practised today.
And being born in a muslim family means nothing no soul bears the burden of another, and man is only responsible for his/her own deeds - we don't inherit islaam, but the one who submits to Allaah and obeys His Messenger out of his/her own freewill is a muslim.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Proof we are discussing:
1. Causing unnecessary pain to the animals, when you can survive without killing animal and causing pain, is allowed in your religion.
Look at the above post. thanks.
2. You can not be entirely honest following your path as I have described how you gave me infraction for telling the truth.
If you want to complain to the admins (the ones with the red nicks) - please put it forward to them. They'll come upon a common agreement to see if i really did something unjust or not.
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are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here) (OP)
are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
[66:7]
[7:36]
[2:39]
[2:257]
[43:77]
[64:10]
[6:128]
Then compare it to the Qur'an for yourself. This is when your sincerety comes into it.
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