are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here) (OP)
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Fateh
are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
Originally posted by hacyec
I believe it says in the Qur'an that there are Muslims even withing the people of the book, people who are considered Muslims. Remember that the biggest sin is to commit Shirk, do Jews do this? I was Catholic and the only time I commited something Shirk was when I was a child, but then learned to think otherwise. Personally, yes I believe that Jew's, Christians, and of course Muslims will go to heaven as long as they deserve it of course, a pious Jew is much more deserving of heaven than a murderous Muslim, you get what I mean? But all is in Allah's hands in the end brother's and sisters, salaam.
Answer by Al-Fateh
not Jew, no Christian, no other religion will have its followers go to heaven
this is agains the Quran
At-Tahreem - (The Prohibition)
Recitation: [66:7] English Yusuf Ali: [66:7]
(They will say), "O ye Unbelievers! Make no excuses this Day! Ye are being but requited for all that ye did!"
[7:36] English Yusuf Ali: [7:36]
But those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance,- they are companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for ever).
[2:39] English Yusuf Ali: [2:39]
"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
[2:257] English Yusuf Ali: [2:257]
Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).
[43:77] English Yusuf Ali: [43:77]
They will cry: "O Malik! would that thy Lord put an end to us!" He will say, "Nay, but ye shall abide!"
[64:10] English Yusuf Ali: [64:10]
But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye: and evil is that Goal.
moreover....
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Fateh
[6:128] English Yusuf Ali: [6:128]
One day will He gather them all together, (and say): "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say: "Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.
this verse is very misunderstood by MANY muslims....
Tafsir Al-Jalalayn
و اذكر يوم نحشرهم بالنون والياء أي الله الخلق جميعا ويقال لهم يا معشر الجن قد استكثرتم من الإنس بإغوائكم وقال أولياؤهم الذين أطاعوهم من الإنس ربنا استمتع بعضنا ببعض انتفع الإنس بتزيين الجن لهم الشهوات والجن بطاعة الإنس لهم . وبلغنا أجلنا الذي أجلت لنا وهو يوم القيامة وهذا تحسر منهم قال تعالى لهم على لسان الملائكة: النار مثواكم مأواكم خالدين فيها إلا ما شاء الله من الأوقات التي يخرجون فيها لشرب الحميم فإنه خارجها كما قال تعالى ثم إن مرجعهم لإلى الجحيم وعن ابن عباس انه فيمن علم الله أنهم يؤمنون فما بمعنى من إن ربك حكيم في صنعه عليم بخلقه
Al-Qurtubi
خالدين فيها إلا ما شاء الله استثناء ليس من الأول. قال الزجاج : يرجع إلى يوم القيامة، أي خالدين في النار إلا ما شاء الله من مقدار حشرهم من قبورهم ومقدار مدتهم في الحساب، فالاستثناء منقطع. وقيل: يرجع الاستثناء إلى النار، أي إلا ما شاء الله من تعذيبكم بغير النار في بعض الأوقات. وقال ابن عباس: الاستثناء لأهل الإيمان. فــما على هذا بمعنى من. وعنه أيضاً أنه قال: هذه الآية توجب الوقف في جميع الكفار. ومعنى ذلك أنها توجب الوقف فيمن لم يمت، إذ قد يسلم. وقيل: إلا ما شاء الله من كونهم في الدنيا بغير عذاب. ومعنى هذه الآية معنى الآية التي في هود. قوله: فأما الذين شقوا ففي النار وهناك يأتي مستوفىً إن شاء الله. إن ربك حكيم أي في عقوبتهم وفي جميع أفعاله عليم [هود: 106] بمقدار مجازاتهم.
And, mention, the day when He, God, shall gather them (yahshuruhum, may also read nahshuruhum, 'We shall gather them'), that is, creatures, all together, and it will be said to them: 'O assembly of jinn, you have garnered much of mankind', by your misleading [them]. Then their friends, those who obeyed them, from among mankind will say, 'Our Lord, we enjoyed one another, mankind enjoyed what the jinn adorned for them of passions, while the jinn [enjoyed] mankind's obedience to them; but now we have arrived at the term which You have appointed for us', that is, the Day of Resurrection - this [statement] expresses extreme regret on their part. He, exalted be He, will say, to them, by the tongues of the angels: 'The Fire is your lodging, your abode, to abide therein' - except what God wills, of those times when they will exit from it in order to drink boiling water, which is located outside it, as God, exalted be He, has said: Then they shall return to the Hell-fire [Q. 37:68]; according to Ibn 'Abbās, this [proviso] pertains to those whom God knows will believe (mā, 'what', thus has the sense of man, 'whom'). Surely your Lord is Wise, in His actions, Knowing, of His creatures.
(In the day when He will gather them together) the Jinn and human beings ((He will say): O ye assembly of the Jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce) how many human beings have erred by seeking help in you. (And their adherents) the adherents of the Jinn (among humankind) who sought help in the leaders of the Jinn upon camping at a valley or hunting a beast of theirs, used to say: 'we seek refuge in the master of this valley from the foolish among his people', and used to feel safe after saying this, (will say: Our Lord!) O our Lord! (We enjoyed one another) we benefited from one another; the benefit of the human beings was safety from the Jinn, and that of the Jinn, their status and position among their people (but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us) i.e. death. (He) Allah (will say) to them: (Fire is your home) is your dwelling, O group of Jinn. (Abide therein for ever) abiding in the Fire, (save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver)) but Allah wills that they abide therein for eternity. (Lo! thy Lord is Wise) He decreed that they will abide in Hell for ever, (Aware) of them and of their punishment.
If you want to complain to the admins (the ones with the red nicks) - please put it forward to them. They'll come upon a common agreement to see if i really did something unjust or not.
Who are those Admins? They are just like you... So why would you expect anything different from them?
But to be truthful, first you need to accept the truth as it is and only then we can come to a truthful conclusion...
Instead, you people like to give infraction against truth. So, how can we even discus truth...
Anyways, my job is to seek truth and make people aware of truth. It really doesn't matter how many infraction you give, you can't force me not to tell the truth...
I saw in a Bollywood movie that Musalmaan meant Muslam Imaan meaning someone with complete dignity. But it seems we have much more dignity than some of the people are supposed to have complete dignity...
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Qur'an 52: 36-7]
You can read theory of evolution. It for sure makes much more sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Please, post me proof from your scripture.
I don't believe in posting anything here from Guru Granth Sahib. Simply believe me what Kabir Sahib said...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
If Allaah has permitted meat for us, the same way He has permitted for us the riding of animals (which might cause a slight pain to the animal you're riding), or even the milking of a cow for example (which might also cause a slight pain when one milks it) - then there is nothing wrong with that.
Do you actually believe the milking a cow hurts her as much as it causes to kill it? Let's at least talk some logic...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The killing of an innocent soul is forbidden by Allaah anyway:
"If anyone slew an innocent person it would be as if he slew the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind"
[Al-Qur’an 5:32]
As I understand, in fact, I saw this in one of the videos on youtube that for Muslims, the only innocent people are Muslim.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Trust me, they don't feel it hardly at all, i already explained to you the concept of cutting the aorta, since that causes the least pain to the animal and its over before they know it. And it's much more humane compared to the methods of electrocution which is a common method practised today.
Please let's talk about some logic. Try poking your finger. I can assure you, pain of being killed is alot more than poking your own finger. Why do you keep comparing to the other methods used? Did I ever say the other methods were any better than your method? They are both inhumane...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
And being born in a muslim family means nothing no soul bears the burden of another, and man is only responsible for his/her own deeds - we don't inherit islaam, but the one who submits to Allaah and obeys His Messenger out of his/her own freewill is a muslim.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Who are those Admins? They are just like you... So why would you expect anything different from them?
But to be truthful, first you need to accept the truth as it is and only then we can come to a truthful conclusion...
Instead, you people like to give infraction against truth. So, how can we even discus truth...
Anyways, my job is to seek truth and make people aware of truth. It really doesn't matter how many infraction you give, you can't force me not to tell the truth...
I saw in a Bollywood movie that Musalmaan meant Muslam Imaan meaning someone with complete dignity. But it seems we have much more dignity than some of the people are supposed to have complete dignity...
My friend, you are in no place to talk about the truth or even debate here, so please keep your dignity before you humilate yourself again like what happened here.
You have had a free rein here, we let you stay on this forum for a long time whilst many people before you with the exact same attitude were banned. We were tolerant with you and Fi_sabilililah in particular went a great distance in trying to explain to you along with the other members, the least you can do is respect him - and the muslims. Every question, allegation, arguement, and misconception you brought forth was patiently responded to and every detail was explained to you. We censored nothing. The thread linked to above is a clear example of this. You resort to the age-old ignorant allegations even after having been provided extensive explanations.
You must really be desperate to demean Islam seeing as how you've tried and failed over and over on this board. You are of a closed heart, you are not here seeking to learn, you are here with the exact same attitude of the anti-Islamists who post allegations yet never read a response. If you have nothing better to do in your life other than attacking Islam, so be it.
However, this bigoted attitude towards Islam and Muslims from you will not be tolerated on this forum furthermore. It has become clear to us that you are not here to learn. If any of your posts are of this nature after this, we will show you the door.
Regards.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
[MOUSE]grossly off topic[/MOUSE]
calidude:
bollywood is hardly a reliable source for information, but is this correct? i've long wondered about the term.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Madani
My friend, you are in no place to talk about the truth or even debate here, so please keep your dignity before you humilate yourself again like what happened here.
You have had a free rein here, we let you stay on this forum for a long time whilst many people before you with the exact same attitude were banned. We were tolerant with you and Fi_sabilililah in particular went a great distance in trying to explain to you along with the other members, the least you can do is respect him - and the muslims. Every question, allegation, arguement, and misconception you brought forth was patiently responded to and every detail was explained to you. We censored nothing. The thread linked to above is a clear example of this. You resort to the age-old ignorant allegations even after having been provided extensive explanations.
You must really be desperate to demean Islam seeing as how you've tried and failed over and over on this board. You are of a closed heart, you are not here seeking to learn, you are here with the exact same attitude of the anti-Islamists who post allegations yet never read a response. If you have nothing better to do in your life other than attacking Islam, so be it.
However, this bigoted attitude towards Islam and Muslims from you will not be tolerated on this forum furthermore. It has become clear to us that you are not here to learn. If any of your posts are of this nature after this, we will show you the door.
Regards.
The link you gave me only shows that a true Sikh doesn't commit any sins. So there is nothing wrong with that but you conveniently forgot to response to this post of yours.
I neither favor any religion nor oppose. I simply favor truth. If truth opposes any religion, there is nothing I can do about it and truth is above all religions.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?
.
Brother, this is what is stated in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji! - And this is what we follow. The Quran, may state something in favour of consuming meat, but to us God made animals and some are carnivores and some herbivores. All by the will of God. ''And those animals which eat grass-He could make them eat meat. He could make them follow this way of life'' (Guru Nanak Dev)
We humans have the same choice. But who makes the right one.....
Here are a few verses against eating meat in the SGGS.
1- They (the truest of the true) burn away the bonds of the world,
And eat a simple diet of grain and water.
(SGGS p467)
2- Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (reborn)
(SGGS p1337)
3- You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain.
(SGGS p332)
4- Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen ?
(SGGS p1350)
5- Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt.
You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ?(SGGS p1378)
6- In this dark age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs;
They eat rotting dead bodies for food.
(SGGS p1242)
7- Sayeth Kabir, sayeth thou by forcefully killing living beings, Halaal.
When in God's house, your accounts be taken, what will then there happen to you!
(SGGS p1375)
Now, to get to the heart of the matter, we are talking about killing another living being , cutting its flesh and muscles which that animal relied upon for its existence and consuming it, primarily for the taste. It has been said that we are designed to eat meat and that we evolved to eat meat. There are many things that we can do but that does not make them right,
BUT, to lay this to rest Dhan Guru Nanak states the following because he knows man does not think he is infalliable so will go on and on about if eating meat is right or wrong. When we go up there we'll know for sure.
Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhaghrrey.
Gian dhian Nahin Jaaney.
Kaun Maas Kaun Saag Kahaavey
Kis Mah Paap Samaaney. (pg. 1289-1290)
Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat.
He does not have the True Wisdom. Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on
which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not.
Last edited by AvarAllahNoor; 04-15-2007 at 11:05 AM.
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Darn it ... I see all great books as eloquent. I see these books more alike than different.
Answer with your heart and mind, use a Book to guide. He speaks to you, now and forever more. He Guides with infinite vision, he loves with infinite love. To be merciful is to say another child of god is lacking (less than me).
I will check this site out ... to find the limits of man put upon them too. I will weep as our father does in heaven ... I will weep for me and all others in this great universe of God's.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
You can read theory of evolution. It for sure makes much more sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud.
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Qur'an 52: 36-7]
Explain to me how the universe was created, not formed into shape. But how it was created, was it created from nothing?
Knowing that Allaah created Adam out of mud is simple, when you die and get buried, what do you turn into? Dust. So what's so hard about believing that one was created from it in the first place.
This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' god when they die?
I don't believe in posting anything here from Guru Granth Sahib. Simply believe me what Kabir Sahib said...
How can i believe something which isn't backed up with proof?
Do you actually believe the milking a cow hurts her as much as it causes to kill it? Let's at least talk some logic...
Sure i will, riding a donkey or horse might cause pain to its back. And i've explained that cutting the main artery which leads to the brain causes all the pain to stop anyway, probably even less than riding on a donkey for some hours or years.
As I understand, in fact, I saw this in one of the videos on youtube that for Muslims, the only innocent people are Muslim.
Well the verse refers to mankind.
Please let's talk about some logic. Try poking your finger. I can assure you, pain of being killed is alot more than poking your own finger. Why do you keep comparing to the other methods used? Did I ever say the other methods were any better than your method? They are both inhumane...
I'm sure that cutting an electrical cable of a computer would shut the rest of the system off, similarly - cutting the nerve which sends the signal of pain would cause minimum pain to the animal also.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
Now, to get to the heart of the matter, we are talking about killing another living being , cutting its flesh and muscles which that animal relied upon for its existence and consuming it, primarily for the taste. It has been said that we are designed to eat meat and that we evolved to eat meat. There are many things that we can do but that does not make them right,
So is it wrong to harvest trees to use for lumber? We don't need tables and chairs, so why use them?
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by AbuAbdallah
So is it wrong to harvest trees to use for lumber? We don't need tables and chairs, so why use them?
You tried consuming a tree....?
You can argue plants have life to, but it's not equal to animals or human.... Consequences of eating plants do not compare to those of an animal which has feeling, possible thoughts, parental instincts towards its offspring, also plants (lentils, maize , spinach etc) are not harmful on a mental, spiritual level but are in fact good for the digestion. Scientists proved this.
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' God when they die?
)
You have proof of this statment from the Scriptures?
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
You have proof of this statment from the Scriptures?
Avar, what can i do if i have to believe everything that cali dude says - even if he never brings proof for it? What else can i rely on? Shall i just ignore his posts from now on then?
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Avar, what can i do if i have to believe everything that cali dude says - even if he never brings proof for it? What else can i rely on? Shall i just ignore his posts from now on then?
I can't comment on ignoring him or not. But bearing in mind my or his personal opinions count for nothing.
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
I think one verse explains this concept Sura Al Baiyinah verse 5.
"Verily, those who disbelieve from amongst the people of the book (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (worshipping partners beside Allah) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."
Re: are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Qur'an 52: 36-7]
Explain to me how the universe was created, not formed into shape. But how it was created, was it created from nothing?
Knowing that Allaah created Adam out of mud is simple, when you die and get buried, what do you turn into? Dust. So what's so hard about believing that one was created from it in the first place.
This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' god when they die?
Just because what you say about creation doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't mean I don't believe in God.
If I were capable of reading and understanding Guru Granth Sahib entirely, I would tell you for sure what Guru Granth Sahib says about creation of the universe.
But theory of evolution (please do check it) does logically make better sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud. Does it really sense that God created Adam and Eve out of dirt and yet created animals out of meat, when there human and animals share so many biological similarities? Do you ever wonder how soul was created?
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
How can i believe something which isn't backed up with proof?
Avar gave you many quotes, which I usually don't like to do...
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Sure i will, riding a donkey or horse might cause pain to its back. And i've explained that cutting the main artery which leads to the brain causes all the pain to stop anyway, probably even less than riding on a donkey for some hours or years.
Horses and donkeys are capable of easily carrying certain weight. But yes, it would be wrong to load them up with so much weight that causes them pain.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I'm sure that cutting an electrical cable of a computer would shut the rest of the system off, similarly - cutting the nerve which sends the signal of pain would cause minimum pain to the animal also.
Still minimum is more than none. But I don't think it happens this way though. How do you find the nerve without cutting the skin?
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I don't see it.
That's because you have been brainwashed in certain way.
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are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here) (OP)
are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)
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