The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State. (OP)
Rights of Citizens in an Islamic State
Islam protects the rights belonging to the citizens of an Islamic state, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims.
The first is the right to security of life and property. Islam prohibits killing except for that which is done in the due process of law at the hands of a God-fearing court. No government has the right to murder its citizens, openly or secretly, because they oppose its unjust policies and actions or criticize it. Furthermore, Islam confers the right of security of ownership of property.
Another right is that of the protection of honor. Under Islamic Law, if one is proved to have said things that could have damaged the reputation and honor of the plaintiff, the accused is declared guilty of defamation — regardless of whether or not the plaintiff is able to prove that he is respectable and honorable in the first place.
Citizens of an Islamic state have the right to the sanctity and security of private life. Thus spying on others, reading their mail, tapping their phones, etc., is illegal. Espionage on the life of the individual cannot be justified on moral grounds. In fact, when a government does begin to spy on its own people, the common citizens cannot speak freely even in their own homes, and society begins to suffer from a state of general distrust and suspicion — which in turn leads to more dissatisfaction and eventually unrest.
No citizen can be imprisoned unless his guilt has been proven in an open court in which he has the opportunity to defend himself.
Citizens have the God-given right to protest against the government’s tyranny, whether that abuse is directed against individuals, groups, or the entire population.
Citizens have absolute and complete equality in the eyes of the law regardless of their religion
Islam grants the right of freedom of thought and expression on the condition that it should be used to propagate virtue and truth, not to spread evil and wickedness. Further, no one has the right to use abusive or offensive language in the name of criticism. In fact, the citizen not only has the right of freedom of expression in order to propagate virtue, but also the duty to propagate virtue and stop the spread of evil.
Islam gives people the right to freedom of association and formation of parties or organizations, provided that this right is exercised to spread virtue and righteousness, not to spread evil and mischief.
Citizens of an Islamic state have the right to freedom of conscience and conviction. Non-Muslim citizens cannot be forced to accept Islam, and no moral, social, or political pressure can be put on them to make them change their minds.
Religious sentiments are to be protected. Discussion and debate on religious matters can be held, but these must be conducted in decency with no abusive language. This applies to followers of all faiths.
An individual cannot be arrested or imprisoned for the offenses of others. Every person is responsible for his own acts.
Citizens have the right to the basic necessities of life. It is the responsibility of the State to provide the basic necessities for the poor and needy, invalid, orphaned, elderly, unemployed, et cetera. Even a dead person with no guardian or heir has the right to a proper burial by the State.
The citizens of an Islamic state have absolute and complete equality in the eyes of the law, regardless of their religion.
In an Islamic state, the rulers are not above the law. All officials of the state, whether they are the head or ordinary employees, are equal in the eyes of the law. None can claim immunity. Even an ordinary citizen has the right to forward a claim or file a complaint against the highest executive in the country.
Citizens have the right to avoid sin. No government, or administrator, or head of a department can order another person to do wrong. A person who is so ordered has the right to refuse to comply, and this would not be seen as an offense under Islamic Law.
Islam grants the right to participate in the affairs of state. Thus every citizen has the right to have a direct say in the affairs of the state or a representative chosen by him and others.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 06-08-2007 at 02:50 PM.
Reason: highlighted certain points
i have seen dhimmi defined as unbelievers or non-muslim (under muslim protection) and i have also seen in more narrowly defined as referring specifically to christians, jews and sometimes other religions too.
so i am not sure if an atheist or agnostic would come under the term dhimmi or not. i am really curious now - does anyone know for sure?
were there even atheists and agnostics around in the early days of islam?
i know there were people of the book and there were idolators, but were there atheists?
It is my understanding that if you are not of the book, you are not welcome.
Leave or die.
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
It is my understanding that if you are not of the book, you are not welcome.
Leave or die.
We Aggys and Athys would be classed as Idolaters, worshipping cars or pop idols or something.
Basically it's too weird a concept for people in those days to even think that God might not exist or that their and indeed all religion might be wrong, so if there were any aggys about they would have got the chop too.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
If someone would create a true 100% democracy, it would be the most perfect state the world has ever seen.
There would be no need to talk about the rights of this group or that group because they would all be the same.
If every country would adapt this democracy, surly all wars would end and for the first time since there have been two tribes, the world would be at peace.
If the leader of a country were to implement the Sharia'ah 100%, it would be the most perfect state the world has ever seen.
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
What do you mean they're not included as "dhimmi"? The full term used is "kaaffir dhimmi" (unbelievers under protection). Unbelievers who wage war and cause trouble against the Islamic State is termed "kaaffir harbi".
Jews and Christians are categorized as "ahle kitab" (People of the Book)
But when muslims conquer a land, what happens with atheists and agnostics who dont want to embrace islam?
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Under a shariah state, I as a non-muslim, am rendered a second-class citizen. I cannot change or vote on laws I do not agree with. Nor am I allowed to openly dicuss my faith (or lack thereof).
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
If the leader of a country were to implement the Sharia'ah 100%, it would be the most perfect state the world has ever seen.
Maybe if your a Muslim. But I have no desire to become a second class citizen or expelled.
I prefer to live where the government does not define my value by my religious beliefs.
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
living in a shariah state is not really amongst my worries.
but i am curious now - what is the definition of dhimmi?
does it only pertain to jews, christians (and some include other religions) or does it also include atheists and agnostics?
and did atheists and agnostics even exist then?
i have read conflicting things.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
living in a shariah state is not really amongst my worries.
but i am curious now - what is the definition of dhimmi?
does it only pertain to jews, christians (and some include other religions) or does it also include atheists and agnostics?
and did atheists and agnostics even exist then?
i have read conflicting things.
Well, you have to keep in mind that during this time period there was no separation of church and state, therefore there weren't many vocal or even visible athiests or agnostics. If you came from Christian lands you were a Christian, if you can from Muslim lands you were a Muslim. That doesn't mean they all believed or were pious, but they were labeled as such.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, you have to keep in mind that during this time period there was no separation of church and state, therefore there weren't many vocal or even visible athiests or agnostics. If you came from Christian lands you were a Christian, if you can from Muslim lands you were a Muslim. That doesn't mean they all believed or were pious, but they were labeled as such.
I think that is a total breach of reality, but OK.
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think that is a total breach of reality, but OK.
What about a Hindu?
How is it a "breach of reality?" You have to understand that athiesm was all but unheard of in the context of public action during this time period. Even the Romans would execute self-proclaimed athiests. When Christians were being persecuted by the Romans they were persecuted for being "athiests", as strange as that might sound now.
Fast forward till the time of the Crusades. If you were European, you were Christian(Catholic). If you were born in Syria...yeah, you were a Muslim. When the Byzantine Empire started to decay and was eventually invaded by Muslims, those average citizens of the Byzantine emperor were Christians. It doesn't matter if they believed in God or not, they were aligned with that faith for better or worse.
Hopefully that makes sense...we are indeed talking about a very different time and mindset.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
well, in addition to christians and jews, there were plenty of idolators running around. maybe non-christian, non-jew were all considered idolators? there probably weren't really atheists and agnostics in the neighbourhood.
still, my question for a knowledgeable muslim remains unanswered:
does dhimmi status only apply to people of the book and are those that don't fall in to this category, a sub-category legally?
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
well, in addition to christians and jews, there were plenty of idolators running around. maybe non-christian, non-jew were all considered idolators? there probably weren't really atheists and agnostics in the neighbourhood.
still, my question for a knowledgeable muslim remains unanswered:
does dhimmi status only apply to people of the book and are those that don't fall in to this category, a sub-category legally?
In Hidayah, the main book of Hanafi Fiqh, it says that Jizya, (and by extension, dhimmi status) is leveled on the Ahli Kitaab and Fire Worshippers, the first because of an order to Allah to that effect in Surah Tawbah, Ayat 29, and the second because it is proven in a Hadith that Rasoolullah SAWS took jizya from a Fire worshipper. And according to Imam Abo Hanifa, Jizya may also be leveled on a non-Arab idolatoror, but according to Imam Shafee, fighting them is mandatory, because the original order in the Ayat is: fight them.We know that it is permissible to level Jizya in the case of the Ahli Kitaab by the Quraan itself, and in the case of fire-worshippers by Hadeeth, but in all others the original order applies. And Imam Abo Hanifa's point is that enslaving idolatorors is permissible, so levelling Jizya on them is also permissible, because in each cases his life is spared, so he will earn and pay jizya to muslims and his living expenses will be from his earnings.
From what I understand from this, according to Imam Shafee, jizya is only leveled on Ahli Kitab with the sole exception being Fire-Worshippers. Thus Agnostics and Atheists do not qualify for dhimmi status and they would either be killed or enslaved.
Imam Abo Hanifa's position seems to indicate, though he does not clearly state it, that dhimmi status could be granted to an Atheist or Agnostic. His use of the term 'idolatorors' appears to cover all other religions. Furthermore, the logic behind his arguement is that if you can make a person a slave, you can also make him a dhimmi. I don't actually know whether Agnostics and Atheists can be enslaved, but if they can, they should be granted dhimmi status as well.
I am attaching a scan of the page of Hidayah from which I took my information
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
format_quote Originally Posted by Faye
In Hidayah, the main book of Hanafi Fiqh, it says that Jizya, (and by extension, dhimmi status) is leveled on the Ahli Kitaab and Fire Worshippers, the first because of an order to Allah to that effect in Surah Tawbah, Ayat 29, and the second because it is proven in a Hadith that Rasoolullah SAWS took jizya from a Fire worshipper. And according to Imam Abo Hanifa, Jizya may also be leveled on a non-Arab idolatoror, but according to Imam Shafee, fighting them is mandatory, because the original order in the Ayat is: fight them.We know that it is permissible to level Jizya in the case of the Ahli Kitaab by the Quraan itself, and in the case of fire-worshippers by Hadeeth, but in all others the original order applies. And Imam Abo Hanifa's point is that enslaving idolatorors is permissible, so levelling Jizya on them is also permissible, because in each cases his life is spared, so he will earn and pay jizya to muslims and his living expenses will be from his earnings.
From what I understand from this, according to Imam Shafee, jizya is only leveled on Ahli Kitab with the sole exception being Fire-Worshippers. Thus Agnostics and Atheists do not qualify for dhimmi status and they would either be killed or enslaved.
Imam Abo Hanifa's position seems to indicate, though he does not clearly state it, that dhimmi status could be granted to an Atheist or Agnostic. His use of the term 'idolatorors' appears to cover all other religions. Furthermore, the logic behind his arguement is that if you can make a person a slave, you can also make him a dhimmi. I don't actually know whether Agnostics and Atheists can be enslaved, but if they can, they should be granted dhimmi status as well.
I am attaching a scan of the page of Hidayah from which I took my information
This sort of confirms, at least by your analysis why I would never want to live under an Islamic state.
Re: The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
In this day and age, were a proper Islamic state to be established, the western world would still be a more attractive proposition to Non-Muslims anyway. I think that's a no-brainer really. Historically, that wasn't the case, but nowadays it is.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
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