This is a very common posed by atheist to people carrying out dawah... which certainly requires a clever, logical and scientific answer... I will leave this question opened to you dear brothers and sister... "Who created God?"
Who created God?
- Thread starter Nerd
- Start date
- Replies 103
- Views 28K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | vBulletin 4 php 8.0 patch
- Status
vpb
IB Expert
- Messages
- 1,943
- Reaction score
- 189
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
First, this question is a typical question that comes from Shaitan . No doubt.
Second, as muslims we shouldn't stop even for a second to think "who created God".
Third, The straight away answer should be "Nobody created God, God has no beggining or end", or say "audhubillahi minashajtani rrajeem".
as for providing a logical answer, i'll try to answer , but i don't want to get into these, cuz it's just a question which comes from shaitan into our brains.
we make these questions based on our imagination. But in fact our imagination is limited, we think that everything that God does or knows, can be precieved by our imagination. who knows, maybe outside our imagination the term 'creation' doesn't even exist. But as humans we have these things such as 'creation'. So the questioner is very naive, he/she thinks that his/her imagination is unlimited.
If Allah swt wants He can dissapear the term creation, destroy all human kind? and then? how can you ask such a question. This question works only within the range of the creation of Allah swt, since it's our imagionation .
similar question was "Can god create a rock that he can't lift?",
We think that our imagionation is unlimited so that the term 'weight' applies to God too.
If God wants he can dissapear the term of gravity, and shape, and color, and material?? now where's the stone? same thing is with the creation, Allah can do things that our beoynd our imagionation, and we think that the term creation applies for God too. it's foolish. God is independent of time, food, drink..... He doesn't need anything, He is also independent of the term 'Creation'. the term creation applies only to the creation, since Allah swt created our imagionation and the ability is needed to understand creation so we could recognize and worship Him as our Creator.
Last edited:
"He begetteth not, nor is He begotten" surah: Al-Ikhlas, verse:3
Indeed as muslims our belief is firm that Allah has no begining nor an end, it is when it comes to explaining the disbelievers we need to be prepared with logical scientific answers...
Indeed as muslims our belief is firm that Allah has no begining nor an end, it is when it comes to explaining the disbelievers we need to be prepared with logical scientific answers...
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
There is no scientific or logical answer. It is totally outside our mentally ability.
God is uncreated, that is all.
The concept of creation can only apply to the creations, not to the Creator.
The Creator is uncreated...
Anyway, maybe you can ask them is return, who created the universe... either they will believe it has always existed (therefore they can't argue against the concept of Allah always existing too), or they believe it was created out of nothing, which is just absurd anyway.
Makky
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 554
- Reaction score
- 135
Nerd
2 posts only?
hehe! did you only come here to post this question?
whats your religion
well.. if you are to establish a new company .. you need to create rules for this company.. rules for managers rules for employees rules for salary and payment
for example the rule say :that employees have 21 days annaul vacation ..and any absence more than 21 days means that there will be a discount from the salary
the Question now is... You are the one who created these rules to your new company...is it logic to punish yourself if you are absent for more than 21 days...the logic answer is no .. because its your own company and the rules are made by you..but you don't undergo these rules
In other words : Allah created this world and created all its rules ... therefore All the creations inside this universe undergoes his rules
and one of these rules is : that every creation should be created by a creator
Simply Allah doesn't undergo this rule because Allah is not a creation
Regards
Last edited:
- Qatada -
Spread this Avatar!
- Messages
- 11,349
- Reaction score
- 2,692
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
:salamext:
Many times people say that such a magnificent creation needs to be created by God, then atheists might attack and ask: then who created God?
Insha Allaah this will answer that using logic.
(the arrow [<--] means 'created by')
Creation <-- God
^ That's how the believers see, it.
Let's use the logic of the atheists and see what would happen if 'the Creator was created.'
http://www.islamicboard.com/campaigns/33022-dawah-tips-ideas-5.html
And Allaah knows best.
Many times people say that such a magnificent creation needs to be created by God, then atheists might attack and ask: then who created God?
Insha Allaah this will answer that using logic.
(the arrow [<--] means 'created by')
Creation <-- God
^ That's how the believers see, it.
Let's use the logic of the atheists and see what would happen if 'the Creator was created.'
Creation <-- God <-- Creator [but he needs a creator also] <-- Creator [Again, but he needs a creator] <-- Creator <---- Creator <-------------- - infinity -
From there we can see that if God needed a Creator, then He couldn't have been created since it would be infinite amount of time for Him to be created, which would mean we couldn't be created since it would take forever for our Creator [God] to be created. Which proves that God cannot be created.
http://www.islamicboard.com/campaigns/33022-dawah-tips-ideas-5.html
youve explained that very well,:thumbs_up
glo
IB Legend
- Messages
- 8,472
- Reaction score
- 1,785
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Christianity
I think the real problem is that imagining God being infinite and having existed forever, is pretty impossible for the human mind.
Infinity is also a mathematical concept, so from a scientific point of view it should be possible.
Existing without a beginning or a source, I expect, is a scientific impossibility.
I think the explanation of the creator needing a creator, needing a creator etc is not particulalry helpful, because it paints an infinite scenario - which for somebody who comes from a scientific perspective, may make more sense than the statement that 'God has always existed'.
I don't think any of these explanation hold down under scientific scrutiny (although I am not a scientist myself, and I will happily be corrected by others who know better)!
I guess as believers we accept these things because our holy books tell us so. In my mind these are faith issues, not scientific issues.
Infinity is also a mathematical concept, so from a scientific point of view it should be possible.
Existing without a beginning or a source, I expect, is a scientific impossibility.
I think the explanation of the creator needing a creator, needing a creator etc is not particulalry helpful, because it paints an infinite scenario - which for somebody who comes from a scientific perspective, may make more sense than the statement that 'God has always existed'.
I don't think any of these explanation hold down under scientific scrutiny (although I am not a scientist myself, and I will happily be corrected by others who know better)!
I guess as believers we accept these things because our holy books tell us so. In my mind these are faith issues, not scientific issues.
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Science can't even be applied to God because He is outside the realm accessible by science!
Science is the study of the creation and stuff we can somehow detect- none of these apply to God.
Therefore applying science to God is stupid. it is like applying the study of human anatomy to understand how a car works.
rushsjilbab
Rising Member
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 1
im sure there's a hadith on this. anyone know. i'll try to find out
Abdul Fattah
a.k.a. steve
- Messages
- 1,931
- Reaction score
- 450
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Ok this is definitely a hard nut to crack. A lot of key-parts have already been given here but I'd still like to add my two cents.
As said this is indeed a a question from the shaytan. It is true that a person asking might be genuinely interested in the answer, and might have no bad intentions. But that doesn't change the fact that the question is inspired by the shaytan. I remember a hadeeth about this question. But I don't remember it exactly. Maybe someone else can confirm that. And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.
So that being said, we should be extra carefull with this question. Even more then we should be in general with dawah. And we certainly shouldn't indulge in philosophy that easily and watch out that we don't send the person away from Islam by saying something incorrect. The prophet s.a.w. wouldn't have warned us for it if it wasn't important. So if you are uncertain of giving the right dawah just answer with Al-ichlaas, that seems the "safest" answer.
What you can do though, rather then answering the question directly, one could just point out a specific human bias. Glo has already pointed it out, the problem is not believing wheter or not God himself was created. The real problem is the deduction that follows after it. When we believe God is without creator, we humans tend to think that he thus would have to have lived forever. And that view is a bit biased. So if that deduction falls away, the questions itself of whether or not God was created seems less heavy.
Now let me show you why that view is biased. People see time as something ethereal, something abstract. Something ever-existing. But Science gives us a different view on that. Einsteins special relativity shows us that time is a relative construct, a dimension. And contemporary views are that dimensions -the spatial as well as the temporal dimensions- are not abstract at all, they are materialistic (in the sense that they are made of matter, that they consist of a fabric). Time can even be bended by gravity of objects with high mass. Now, this has huge implications for big bang. Because it means that not only the spatial dimension, but also the temporal dimension came into existance during big bang. So "before" big bang there wasn't even time. That's a bit of a paradoxal statement because the word "before" is time-dependent and thus has little meaning in that sentence. But that's where it gets interesting. If you believe in a God who empowered big bang, then you believe he also created time. That means God is not eternal, but instead time-independent. Or to explain that last sentence in other words, rather then having an eternal lifespan stretched over a beginningless dimension of time, God is not enclosed within this dimension of time that by the way does have a beginning. So just as the word "before" was paradoxical in our timeless paradigm, so can we also say that all time-dependant words like: before; after; during; when;beginning and end are meaningless when used in relation to God.
And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best, may he forgive me if I said something wrong.
As said this is indeed a a question from the shaytan. It is true that a person asking might be genuinely interested in the answer, and might have no bad intentions. But that doesn't change the fact that the question is inspired by the shaytan. I remember a hadeeth about this question. But I don't remember it exactly. Maybe someone else can confirm that. And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.
So that being said, we should be extra carefull with this question. Even more then we should be in general with dawah. And we certainly shouldn't indulge in philosophy that easily and watch out that we don't send the person away from Islam by saying something incorrect. The prophet s.a.w. wouldn't have warned us for it if it wasn't important. So if you are uncertain of giving the right dawah just answer with Al-ichlaas, that seems the "safest" answer.
What you can do though, rather then answering the question directly, one could just point out a specific human bias. Glo has already pointed it out, the problem is not believing wheter or not God himself was created. The real problem is the deduction that follows after it. When we believe God is without creator, we humans tend to think that he thus would have to have lived forever. And that view is a bit biased. So if that deduction falls away, the questions itself of whether or not God was created seems less heavy.
Now let me show you why that view is biased. People see time as something ethereal, something abstract. Something ever-existing. But Science gives us a different view on that. Einsteins special relativity shows us that time is a relative construct, a dimension. And contemporary views are that dimensions -the spatial as well as the temporal dimensions- are not abstract at all, they are materialistic (in the sense that they are made of matter, that they consist of a fabric). Time can even be bended by gravity of objects with high mass. Now, this has huge implications for big bang. Because it means that not only the spatial dimension, but also the temporal dimension came into existance during big bang. So "before" big bang there wasn't even time. That's a bit of a paradoxal statement because the word "before" is time-dependent and thus has little meaning in that sentence. But that's where it gets interesting. If you believe in a God who empowered big bang, then you believe he also created time. That means God is not eternal, but instead time-independent. Or to explain that last sentence in other words, rather then having an eternal lifespan stretched over a beginningless dimension of time, God is not enclosed within this dimension of time that by the way does have a beginning. So just as the word "before" was paradoxical in our timeless paradigm, so can we also say that all time-dependant words like: before; after; during; when;beginning and end are meaningless when used in relation to God.
And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best, may he forgive me if I said something wrong.
Last edited:
Man created god. Simple. A true Atheist shouldn't have to ask, for they should know that every theist will say that "god" is eternal. Only time is infinite, and even then it doesn't really 'exist'.
Answering the question of "god" is easy, but time confuses me to no end.
I think I might start a religion in worship of the concept of time. It's much more interesting.
Answering the question of "god" is easy, but time confuses me to no end.
I think I might start a religion in worship of the concept of time. It's much more interesting.
One of the thing that puzzles me about these atheists is their hypocrisy!
If it is not a religion then what the hell are they doing at religious forums wasting their time preaching?
wa salaam alaikum to believers and seekers
If it is not a religion then what the hell are they doing at religious forums wasting their time preaching?
wa salaam alaikum to believers and seekers
Last edited:
glo
IB Legend
- Messages
- 8,472
- Reaction score
- 1,785
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Christianity
Great discussion. Keep it coming, people!
Steve, your post will take more time than I have right now. My son needs the computer for his homework ... still the Romans! :rollseyes
Perhaps I'll be back later ...
Don't you guys go shouting at each other while I'm away ...! :X
Peace
Steve, your post will take more time than I have right now. My son needs the computer for his homework ... still the Romans! :rollseyes
Perhaps I'll be back later ...
Don't you guys go shouting at each other while I'm away ...! :X
Peace
Abdul Fattah
a.k.a. steve
- Messages
- 1,931
- Reaction score
- 450
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Sciences disagrees with you on both parts of that statement, please see my previous post.
Trumble
IB Expert
- Messages
- 3,275
- Reaction score
- 389
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Buddhist
The trouble with that is that it is a purely faith based position, not a 'logical scientific' one. The only answer to the original question for a theist must be "nobody did"; the problem is arguing a decent case for it. As Malaikah says there is and can be no such 'proof', so Nerd would be wasting his time looking for one. People much smarter than anyone here have been trying for two thousand years or so.
There is actually a very well known philosophical argument (a much better bet than 'scientific' ones) which might stop a few atheists in their tracks for a while, but there is an equally well known counter as well (try a forum search; we've been here before). If you have a serious interest in debating the subject you need to go prepared - there is no point in smugly presenting one side of an argument and then looking silly as your atheist opponent procedes to dismantle it! There are counters to the counter, too.. and counters to the counters to the counters...
Invitation to what? hell?Dawah?Originally Posted by NoName55
One of the thing that puzzles me about these atheist is their hypocrisy!
If it is not a religion then what the hell are they doing at religious forums wasting their time preaching?
- Status