Who created God?

[Panther]

Invitation to what? hell?

Yeah, we don't believe in hell either. ^^ But we're straying off topic.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

God is self-created

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Panther;

time confuses me to no end.

Logically speaking it should be easier to understand if the universe was a vacuum and nothing existed at all.

For a first cause to exist there are only two possibilities, something had no beginning or, something came from nothing. Both of these possibilities defy logic and science.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

 

[Abdul Fattah]

God is self-created

How can an entity create itself? it would have to exist in order to create, but it cannot exist before it created itself. A bit paradoxal wouldn't you say?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

How can an entity create itself? it would have to exist in order to create, but it cannot exist before it created itself. A bit paradoxal wouldn't you say?

This is the Almighty we refer to, not a human being. He is Omnipotent. He can do as he wills!

God is Karta Purakh, the Creator He created the spatio-temporal universe not from some pre-existing physical element, but from His own Self.

 

[NoName55]

^^I am still confused as to how He decided to create himself before being/before He was?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

^^I am still confused as to how He decided to create himself before being/before He was?

It's God. He answers to none. He is beyond comprehension. - Any issues ask him when you're at the gates.

 

[Woodrow]

Nearly all of our concepts are based at least to some degree upon that which is within the physical realm of the universe. That which can be measured and qualified.

To attempt to even perceive a concept of an infinite God(swt) a simple thought experiment may help.

We can think of the material world and we can understand that "nothing" is the lack of matter.

We can understand that matter had a starting point. We can understand that "nothing" was always there even before matter and we can to some extent think that once matter is removed again there will be "nothing".

we can even think that the material world has a limit and once we pass that limit again we are seeing nothing.

In terms of the space-time continuum of the physical world we can only have matter or nothing. But, if it were possible to step outside our little bubble we can see that there is room for a non-physical being that is not bound by physical concepts and a being that fill this nothing, would physically be unmearsuable.

If we can invision the existance of eternal nothing, we are very close to being able to visualize the existance of an all knowing, all powerfull being and that this being is the cause of creation and in spite of no physical form is present where ever He chooses to be present.

So if nothing can be eternal, why can't Allah(swt) be infinite?

 

[Makky]

God is self-created

So he started creating himself before his existance ... ??????

HOW COME?!?!?!?

So he intend to create himself before his existance...???????

HOW COME?!?!?!?

if he wasn't there before his existance then who intended and who started ??

My friend You need to repent (to Allah) of what you said... ask him for forgiveniss

 

[vpb]

I think this thread should be closed. Only Shaitan comes up with these questions into people's mind. So we have to avoid it, or it will just cause confusion among us. And remember that shaitan tries all the time to decrease our iman as much as possible and mislead us. so we better avoid such discussions. cuz this thread has turned into a debate.

 

[Trumble]

The original poster was looking for a "clever, logical and scientific answer" to present to atheists. Somehow I don't think just assigning the question to Shaitan will convince them!

As to debate, it is impossible to 'refute' anything without considering both sides of the question and being equipped to deal with difficult questions. That's what people like Zakir Naik do, and they are very effective 'refuters' as a result.

 

[Makky]

The trouble with that is that it is a purely faith based position, not a 'logical scientific' one.

the trouble is that some people can't accept the word Allah or God in any scientific conclusion this is due to the atheism preconception..they call themself scientist but actually the are the most stupid and foolish people (Darwin as an example)

People much smarter than anyone here have been trying for two thousand years or so.

How come they are much smarter and didn't come to a conclusion...thier unsuccessful trials to understand are enough evidence to prove that they are not smart at all as they pretend to be.. Do you call a pesron who tries to collect the sea water in a small cup-smart.. do you even doubte ?!

I consider atheists the most foolish breathing creations

If you have a serious interest in debating the subject you need to go prepared - there is no point in smugly presenting one side of an argument and then looking silly as your atheist opponent procedes to dismantle it! There are counters to the counter, too.. and counters to the counters to the counters...

Go prepared?! lol for what? for proving God existance?!

Dismantle what?!

My friend if you are an athiest or if you know an atheist just tell him : think properly for a single minute

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

So he started creating himself before his existance ... ??????

HOW COME?!?!?!?

So he intend to create himself before his existance...???????

HOW COME?!?!?!?

if he wasn't there before his existance then who intended and who started ??

My friend You need to repent (to Allah) of what you said... ask him for forgiveniss

God created himself, hence why he's GOD!! - If he was created by anothr, who would be God??!!

I don't need to repent it is Allah who revealed it to humanity this way!

 

[Trumble]

the trouble is that some people can't accept the word Allah or God in any scientific conclusion this is due to the atheism preconception..they call themself scientist but actually the are the most stupid and foolish people (Darwin as an example)

Darwin wasn't an atheist. When he wrote 'The Origin of Species' he was actually a theist, although he did not believe the Bible to be a divine revelation.

Anything that involves "the word Allah or God" CANNOT be a 'scientific conclusion' as the truth, or otherwise, of that word cannot be demonstrated using the scientific method.

How come they are much smarter and didn't come to a conclusion...

Because it is not possible to come to a conclusion, either way, for the reasons Malaikah made clear. We just do not have, and cannot have, the intellectual tools for the job. Only the mind of God can understand, or even conceive, the reality of God.

Go prepared?! lol for what? for proving God existance?!

For anything you wish to debate or argue; in this particular instance who (if anyone) created God.

Dismantle what?!

A feeble, unprepared, argument that takes no account of the likely means used to contest it. If you want to see how such arguments can be avoided do a search for some of Ansar's stuff. He is a very skilled debater, but is only so because he takes the trouble to learn and understand both sides of the argument, even if he (obvously) only agrees with one side.

My friend if you are an athiest or if you know an atheist just tell him : think properly for a single minute

And what do you think that will achieve? 'Properly' just means the way you do, no more. My version of 'properly' is rather different, as is that of the atheists here. You think they are wrong, they think you are wrong. To convince them otherwise requires a little more effort than just telling them to think what you do with no reasons as to why.

 

[snakelegs]

One of the thing that puzzles me about these atheist is their hypocrisy!

If it is not a religion then what the hell are they doing at religious forums wastig their time preaching?

(sigh) a question i've asked myself many times. some are really hard working preachers.

 

[snakelegs]

The trouble with that is that it is a purely faith based position, not a 'logical scientific' one. The only answer to the original question for a theist must be "nobody did"; the problem is arguing a decent case for it. As Malaikah says there is and can be no such 'proof', so Nerd would be wasting his time looking for one. People much smarter than anyone here have been trying for two thousand years or so.

There is actually a very well known philosophical argument (a much better bet than 'scientific' ones) which might stop a few atheists in their tracks for a while, but there is an equally well known counter as well (try a forum search; we've been here before). If you have a serious interest in debating the subject you need to go prepared - there is no point in smugly presenting one side of an argument and then looking silly as your atheist opponent procedes to dismantle it! There are counters to the counter, too.. and counters to the counters to the counters...

this is an excellent summary of why i think "debates" are silly and pointless.

 

[Trumble]

this is an excellent summary of why i think "debates" are silly and pointless.

I hope not, that is certainly not what I intended. If nothing else, they make people think about issues that need thinking about, and can help people make their own minds up even when there can be no 'proof'.

 

[جوري]

One of the thing that puzzles me about these atheists is their hypocrisy!

If it is not a religion then what the hell are they doing at religious forums wasting their time preaching?


wa salaam alaikum to believers and seekers

There can only be two answers to the question of origins..
1- it created itself
2- Some being created it
there really are no more options... so rather than having to explain my point of view to an atheist, when we already don't share any common ground, I expect it to be incumbent upon them to explain to me and fully scientifically with reproducible proof, how everything came to be.
My mind being inquisitive by nature expects an answer to everything then, the A to z of it.. every single biochemical pathway every physiological every anatomical pathway, to every single geological pathway, to every single neurochemical pathway ... each one of those has zillions of tracts enzymes intricacies too numerous to count really, and I expect a glorious cascade of explanation.... So at the end I can go Ah. you got me Atheist, you were so right all along..
Now that being said, I know they can't/won't/ unwilling/unable to do it, then I suggest we part ways amicably. I find most Atheists simply crude, nothing holds them back, they just blather out crap..
I only need to stroll through the posts of this forum to confirm it. Further they so enjoy taking advantage of Islamic mannerism.. I for one refuse to take the passive approach out..
What amuses me is that most any really well educated scientist will never without a reasonable doubt rule something out or in something without a thorough investigation and still never 100% say it was such and such...
In medicine for instance they teach you, even though you believe a person is showing with all the signs and symptoms of appendicitis, you still need 22 differentials... you need to rule out everything from diverticulitis, to ectopic pregnancy to torsion, Cholodocholithiasis, you name it.. so how is that these lay people, whose only approach to science is through some cheesy third rate article come and argue to the world the "non-existence" of G-D with any such conviction.
Ultimately believing or non-believing is a personal choice-- I am not sure why they want the whole world to be lost and purposeless right along with them?

 

[snakelegs]

I hope not, that is certainly not what I intended. If nothing else, they make people think about issues that need thinking about, and can help people make their own minds up even when there can be no 'proof'.

trumble,
i wasn't addressing you personally. i like your posts. it's just that sometimes these endless debates seem just silly and pointless. they go round and round and over and over.
i also didn't mean this thread specifically - just in general.

 

[Nerd]

Zakir Naik uses the "theory of Probability to PROVE TO AN ATHEIST The Existence of Allah"... Check out the link below

http://www.islam101.com/tauheed/provingGodExists.htm


U see the Atheist does not believe God to be the ultimate because he believes Science to be the Ultimate......So if we prove to them that we have something (i.e. the Quran) which is superior to science, Science will cease to be the ultimate.......And Who could have mentioned so many things that science has only been able to verify today??? It has to be our MANUFACTURER, OUR CREATOR, Who has the knowledge of the unseen and unknown......now the existence of God is proved, question remains who created God. Well, first of all since Allah is the creator of the Universe, he cannot be a part of it....He has to be there before the beginning of the Universe...The point to be noted is that CREATED Things have a beginning and an end, like the Universe had a beginning (Big Bang) and it will have an end ( according to Islamic concept Qayamath), Life had a beginning and it will have an end....This concept of beginning and end exists only in the case of CREATED Things and Not in the case of OUR CREATOR....How can Allah be CREATED, when he is UNCREATED??? Its like you telling me that my brother Tom has given birth to a child!!! It would be illogical of me to ask you whether the child is a male or a female, because I being a sensible human being know it very well that a man cannot give birth to a child so the question of the child being a boy or a girl is completely illogical!!! Likewise, the question who created GOD is illogical since GOD IS UNCREATED.....As simple as that!