Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

**Makky** · 07-04-2007

Peace be upon those who Follow the truth.
may Guidance be to those who search the Truth

In-sha'-Allah in this Thread Atheists, Will be exposed..Those among them who really search the truth will say nothing but confess Allah's existence. and those whom their hearts are full of arrogance haughtiness will just appear that they are just arguing.

This is an invitation to the greatest Atheists (

no Atheist is great ) in the world to debate here in this thread

this is a serious Challenge

I want the Mods. here to keep an eye on these thread

My Requests are :

1- Stopping All the side debates and the tree-arguments.
2- (if needed) Stopping comments of the forum members who are not involved in the debate (again if needed).
3-deleting posts that might crowd the thread.

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I will start in the name of Allah by posting Few photos and asking Atheists few questions.
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the questions are clear and simple so i wish the answers will be the same..
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Camouflage

Camouflage became an essential part of modern military tactics after the increase in accuracy and rate of fire of weapons at the end of the 19th century.In nature it was found that some living things have the ability to blend into their environment or conceal their shape; for prey animals to avoid predators and for predators to be able to sneak up on prey.

one of the amazing differences between Camouflage as a modern military tactic and Camouflage in nature is that human being use camouflage to blend into the surrounding, while in nature some animals and insects bodies are already camouflaged..

The leaf insect is our first example:

Look at this leaf!!! Look at those red spots and areas as if its a drying leaf

what about this dry leaf

i863237 310120061535062 - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

could you imagine that this is an insect

i863247 310120061535061 - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

a ribbed leaf?!?!

i863261 LeafInsect - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

Sub7an Allah

i863276 bug1 - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

Questions
1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shap of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?

Atheists!...Answer!

**Malaikah** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

4. IPU=Invisible Pink Unicorn.

If it is invisible, how can it have colour?

Anyway, unicorns are white. :blind:

**ranma1/2** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by Malaikah

If it is invisible, how can it have colour?

Anyway, unicorns are white. :blind:

ah but it is pink and invisible. It is part of its nature.

And i have seen pink unicorns.

**AB517** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

ah but it is pink and invisible. It is part of its nature.

And i have seen pink unicorns.

Hey rama.

In regards to your sig. What truth are you looking for.
Look past religions ... they can't hold it all.
Look past science .... it can't know it all.

look to find a spiritual person ... not a totaly religous one.
They are the ones who are the more 'universal' religous people.
(do you follow)

Look to those that felt inifinty and are changed by it.
I had to hunt for a spiritual person before I settled into a religion. religions are rituals, much like a road map, to guide you to that which you are looking.

In the silent momments, between thaught, it will come. Like Gravity it pulls everthing together ... links all that is seen and unseen.

I do not know what it is ... but it is very loving and extremely powerful.

**Makky** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

these questions have been answered.

1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
no
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
no
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shap of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?
no.

These questions have nothing to do with evolution.
Evolution does not have a goal. these creatures were evolved over time and i answered you question in my initial posts i believe. Could you please reply to our posts?

In the Name of Allah the creator of All seen and non seen

In my initial post i didn't invite the evolutionists or even mention the word evolution.. But i know that Atheists ( most of them) depends on the theory of evolution to explain this life..
and it seems that you believe in the theory of evolution because in your posts you use the expressions ( natural selection and mutation )

My Question now is :
Do you have any other explanation to our 1st case (the leaf insect)?

brothers and sisters we are still pausing sidetrack and secondary debates..please be patient..Step by Step and point by point..thanks in advance for allowing us to organize the thread

**wilberhum** · 07-06-2007

My Question now is :
Do you have any other explanation to our 1st case (the leaf insect)?

That is like asking you if you "have any other explanation to our 1st case" except for god.

Or asking what is the answer to (1 + 1) other than 2.

**Makky** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by wilberhum

That is like asking you if you "have any other explanation to our 1st case" except for god.

Or asking what is the answer to (1 + 1) other than 2.

there are some Atheists who even don't believe in the theory of evolution..that why i want to get sure if ranma1/2 has any other explanation

**wilberhum** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by Makky

there are some Atheists who don't believe in the theory of evolution..that why i want to get sure if ranma1/2 has any other explanation

There are some theists that beleve in evolution.

Evolution is not a religion.

**Dave2** · 07-06-2007

I don't mean to be harsh, but it should be clear to any educated person that the insect in question is the product of evolutionary mechanisms. Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't show that atheism is true. Perhaps there is a God who is ultimately responsible for everything, including the development of life on earth. Perhaps evolution itself is so remarkable that it could have only come from a designer. That's a possibility and it shouldn't be ruled out (not without further discussion of design arguments in general).

But nevertheless the insect and its remarkable adaptations are the result of evolution. That is a scientific fact. Of course, people in the USA often reject evolution, but that's an embarrassment to the nation, not something to be celebrated or encouraged.

**ranma1/2** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by AB517

Hey rama.

In regards to your sig. What truth are you looking for.
Look past religions ... they can't hold it all.
Look past science .... it can't know it all.

look to find a spiritual person ... not a totaly religous one.
They are the ones who are the more 'universal' religous people.
(do you follow)

Look to those that felt inifinty and are changed by it.
I had to hunt for a spiritual person before I settled into a religion. religions are rituals, much like a road map, to guide you to that which you are looking.

In the silent momments, between thaught, it will come. Like Gravity it pulls everthing together ... links all that is seen and unseen.

I do not know what it is ... but it is very loving and extremely powerful.

off topic since we were requested to stay on topic. but...
my sig was comment on how frequntly in religions people proclaim absolute truth is their truth. now back to topic.

**asadxyz** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

ah but it is pink and invisible. It is part of its nature.

And i have seen pink unicorns.

Peace.
Invisible and Pink ???????
Does it show disintegration of mind or depth of knowledge ?? Is this the way the atheists think ?

**ranma1/2** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by Makky

In the Name of Allah the creator of All seen and non seen

In my initial post i didn't invite the evolutionists or even mention the word evolution.. But i know that Atheists ( most of them) depends on the theory of evolution to explain this life..
and it seems that you believe in the theory of evolution because in your posts you use the expressions ( natural selection and mutation )

My Question now is :
Do you have any other explanation to our 1st case (the leaf insect)?

there is no other current accepted scientitfic explaination.
As i stated earlier the IPU could have done it. Same with the GFSM.

**ranma1/2** · 07-06-2007

Originally Posted by Dave2

I don't mean to be harsh, but it should be clear to any educated person that the insect in question is the product of evolutionary mechanisms. Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't show that atheism is true. Perhaps there is a God who is ultimately responsible for everything, including the development of life on earth. Perhaps evolution itself is so remarkable that it could have only come from a designer. That's a possibility and it shouldn't be ruled out (not without further discussion of design arguments in general).

But nevertheless the insect and its remarkable adaptations are the result of evolution. That is a scientific fact. Of course, people in the USA often reject evolution, but that's an embarrassment to the nation, not something to be celebrated or encouraged.

atheism is true? atheism is true, i dont believe in a god or gods. As for wether any creator or gods exists that is another matter.

of course if evo was created by a designer then who made the designer..

**Dave2** · 07-07-2007

ranma1/2, I'm also an atheist. I was just saying that evolutionary biology by itself doesn't settle the issue.

**Trumble** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by asadxyz

Peace.
Invisible and Pink ???????
Does it show disintegration of mind or depth of knowledge ?? Is this the way the atheists think ?

No, it just shows that the whole 'smiley' thing seems to have completely passed you by.. winking0011 1 - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

winking0011 1 - Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

**Makky** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by Dave2

But nevertheless the insect and its remarkable adaptations are the result of evolution. That is a scientific fact. Of course, people in the USA often reject evolution, but that's an embarrassment to the nation, not something to be celebrated or encouraged.

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

there is no other current accepted scientitfic explaination.

So you both are Atheists and You both believe in the evolution theory. could you explain to us what happened to the 1st unicellular organizm to be after millions of years a leaf insect

so the Question is:

Regarding That a unicellular organizm reproduces by Division asexually while the leaf insect reproduces sexually, could you explain to us HOW its possible scientifically For a unicellular organism to mutate to be a multicellular organism?

Note:
We are Discussing here to display facts for the all..so no one post a link and say : read this you wil understand.

brothers and sisters we are still pausing sidetrack and secondary debates..please be patient..Step by Step and point by point..thanks in advance for allowing us to organize the thread

.

**glo** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by wilberhum

There are some theists that beleve in evolution.

Evolution is not a religion.

I always thought Islam had no problem with the concept of evolution ... only with the evolution of humans ... but perhaps I remember wrongly ...

**Woodrow** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by glo

I always thought Islam had no problem with the concept of evolution ... only with the evolution of humans ... but perhaps I remember wrongly ...

Your memory is correct. But, there may be some Muslims who do view any thing with the word evolution as erroneous.

There does seem to be some disagreement over how evolution is defined. I would say that many if not most Muslims Including my self, see no problem with evolution when it is in terms of divine intervention. However, random evolution is a different story and often that is what many think of when evolution is mentioned.

**Trumble** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

There does seem to be some disagreement over how evolution is defined. I would say that many if not most Muslims Including my self, see no problem with evolution when it is in terms of divine intervention. However, random evolution is a different story and often that is what many think of when evolution is mentioned.

I am not aware of any disagreement, at least in scientific terms. In what way is evolution "in terms of divine intervention" supposed to be different from "intelligent design" or "creationism"?

**Woodrow** · 07-07-2007

Originally Posted by Trumble

I am not aware of any disagreement, at least in scientific terms. In what way is evolution "in terms of divine intervention" supposed to be different from "intelligent design" or "creationism"?

Actually I should have said Intelligent design. Which is only through divine intervention. and so is creationism.

There should be no difference between Intelligent design and creationism, however there sees to be disagreement over definitions. Neither need deny evolution as both should be able to see evolution as a means of directed guided formation and not random.

Evolution has become a bad word with negative connotations that do not always show what is meant by evolution.

**Makky** · 07-11-2007

Originally Posted by Trumble

I am not aware of any disagreement, at least in scientific terms. In what way is evolution "in terms of divine intervention" supposed to be different from "intelligent design" or "creationism"?

Trumble! you are an evolutionist,, why don't you share us answering the Questions ?!