Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)

Both evolutionists and scientists are agreed on this point: Evolution is a religion, and it must be accepted by faith. This is science vs. evolution; this is the Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia, brought to you by Creation Science Facts.

The theory of evolution - it is based on several fundamentals (I belive its 4) - the underlying importance of these 4 fundamentals is, only the last one is based on observation, while the former 3 are based on beleif/idea. Btw we are not talking about adaptations or those ancient fossils - Modification in species are known as micro-evolution, but thats not really evolution to be honest. None the less, its macroevolution that is the main tangent for arguement.

Somewhat, believing in evolution does not have more weight then belief in God - because neither have been observed (e.g. macroevolution) but people believe it occured due to reasons X Y Z. Similarly, due to the nature of the Universe, one may conclude that another nature of existane other than that of the matter we see - must exist to make this Universe exist. The argument "Then god must have a creator" is a bit cheeky, in that, God is not thought of being bounded by this Universes laws and act on its matter - As we humans and everything material that we see would have to abide by.

How much evolution can do? I have read some extracts, some people strongly believe that behaviour and morales are derived through natural selection/evolution. Now, their is no scientific evidence for it, and you can't disprove it (well I can't anyway, similarly how no one can disprove God) - so it is somewhat a faith-based belief.

Then we go on arguement - Why is their a needer of a designer/divine being if natural selection/evolution explains how X went to Y? Well, the thing is, this arguement is a bit pointless. Imagine I dropped a pen, from the air - it goes to hit the floor - accelerating at 9.8m/s². I argue, the pen fell due to the force of gravity - hence God's interference was not needed for this pen to fall. Hence God doesn't exist. This is how I see the evolution arguement, even if evolution was to explain all creations, as with natural selection - how does that contradict the existance of God?

Evolution requires plenty of faith; a faith in L-proteins that defy chance formation; a faith in the formation of DNA codes which, if generated spontaneously, would spell only pandemonium; a faith in a primitive environment that, in reality, would fiendishly devour any chemical precursors to life; a faith in experiments that prove nothing but the need for intelligence in the beginning; a faith in a primitive ocean that would not thicken, but would only haplessly dilute chemicals; a faith in natural laws of thermodynamics and biogenesis that actually deny the possibility for the spontaneous generation of life; a faith in future scientific revelations that, when realized, always seem to present more dilemmas to the evolutionists; faith in improbabilities that treasonously tell two stories—one denying evolution, the other confirming the Creator; faith in transformations that remain fixed; faith in mutations and natural selection that add to a double negative for evolution; faith in fossils that embarrassingly show fixity through time, regular absence of transitional forms and striking testimony to a worldwide water deluge; a faith in time which proves to only promote degradation in the absence of mind; and faith in reductionism that ends up reducing the materialist's arguments to zero and forcing the need to invoke a supernatural Creator.

Evolution/Natural selection/Eternal cyclical universe/multiverse - all are highly faith/theory based. Facts should mould theories and not the other way around. Hence you could say Atheism is somewhat religious - except without a God .

As for the OP, cool stuff .

Isaambard, I don't know whats all that mallarchy about - but I don't see anything to disprove God. Gods existance can't be disproven. If you choose not to believe in God, thats another issue

I disagree with you needing more faith to believe in gravity than macro evolution.

^ i also disagree

Macro evolution is micro evolution over a longer time period

False.

Evolution has been observed.
God has not.

False, only microevolution has been observed. Microevolution leading to macroevolution is a factless theory. Fact.

Can you point to any scientist that says “Evolution is a religion”?

Usually scientists who disregard macroevolution. But their are those who believe in it - and if you read on the theories presented by them - you will find several of the fundamental points of their theory are totally factless but just a theory - kind of like "what if"?

There is scientific evidence for evolution again. "fossils, dna etc...."

Not for macro my friend.

Evolution/Natural selection/Eternal cyclical universe/multiverse - all are scientific theories, unlike ID. These are based on actual evidence.

Is this why that even Stephen Hawkins discredited the idea of multiverse/eternal cyclical universe? Too many people think, just because a scientist made a theory - it must be scientific. One arguement put by was "We don't know whats inside black holes, their could be another universe in it" - this to me isn't scientific, rather an observation/hypothesis.

You must have faith to believe in the theory gravity

If I can see gravity working directly, why do I need faith to believe its existance?

there is evidence to suggest that "morals" and behaviors have "evolved"

False, they are assumptions.

Evolution does not deal with abiogenesis.

Makes no difference.

And once again. None for god.

If the existance of matter such as universe - bound by such strict laws (especially energy), it would only be rational that somthing must exist which is not bound by this strict laws/material behaviour, for rational to be that this could exist in the first place. To me that is a great evidence, the existance of the Universe.

Evolution makes no comment on a creator

Yep, they did somthing more silly, described a process, without means, without explanation of the pre-material existance that must have existed for that process to even begin. In another words, somthing came from nothing.

Before you say "where did god come from then?" - God isn't bound by this universe/laws, who said anything about being needed to be created/transferred into existance outside this realm that we believe as Universe?

Where of where did my dino go? :rolleyes:

There are many fossil evidence for Evolution

Micro

All this monkey/neanderthal to human is not via evidence - its just by spread microevolution hypothetical macro evolution model. Its just a theory, just like some have different modules of how the Universe is - like some believe it started via big bang, other that their was no bigbang, some that their is a bubbly/cyclical etc. All of them have equal weight but none are scientific.

Where of where did my dino go?

I ate it .

I hope you don't think Dinasaurs became fish or Elephants ?

Quran is not a science book, so it won't explain and is not deemed to explain all creations. According to some people, it does reference to dinasaurs at

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise. (The Noble Quran, 2:164)"

"He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. (The Noble Quran, 31:10)"

Quran does not in detail explain how he sent us to earth - how he created dinasaur or why he made them extinct. I have heard that Dinasaurs were destroyed by Allah. It would explain it being test - One atheist was complaining in a debate that why God did not provide full details of everything? He said he was not content with the information to guide him to religion or God. However, statistics proved him wrong, seeing as majority of people do believe in God. What does he want? God to give him the answer paper to this test, life? Wouldn't that destroy the meaning of the test? Faith/openminded is a quality required indeed.

At the same time, it doesn't hide everything, alot of things are mentioned in the Quran - and statements - to challenge the readers.