Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!) (OP)
Peace be upon those who Follow the truth.
may Guidance be to those who search the Truth
In-sha'-Allah in this Thread Atheists, Will be exposed..Those among them who really search the truth will say nothing but confess Allah's existence. and those whom their hearts are full of arrogance haughtiness will just appear that they are just arguing.
This is an invitation to the greatest Atheists ( no Atheist is great ) in the world to debate here in this thread
this is a serious Challenge
I want the Mods. here to keep an eye on these thread
My Requests are :
1- Stopping All the side debates and the tree-arguments.
2- (if needed) Stopping comments of the forum members who are not involved in the debate (again if needed).
3-deleting posts that might crowd the thread.
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I will start in the name of Allah by posting Few photos and asking Atheists few questions.
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the questions are clear and simple so i wish the answers will be the same..
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Camouflage
Camouflage became an essential part of modern military tactics after the increase in accuracy and rate of fire of weapons at the end of the 19th century.In nature it was found that some living things have the ability to blend into their environment or conceal their shape; for prey animals to avoid predators and for predators to be able to sneak up on prey.
one of the amazing differences between Camouflage as a modern military tactic and Camouflage in nature is that human being use camouflage to blend into the surrounding, while in nature some animals and insects bodies are already camouflaged..
The leaf insect is our first example:
Look at this leaf!!! Look at those red spots and areas as if its a drying leaf
what about this dry leaf
could you imagine that this is an insect
a ribbed leaf?!?!
Sub7an Allah
Questions 1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shap of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?
Atheists!...Answer!
Last edited by Makky; 07-21-2007 at 03:18 PM.
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by Nerd
People accept evolution without solid evidence. "Millions of years" of evidence which should have cumulated is simply not there... Well if scientist can rest in peace after merely speculating that all species evolved from a single cell and stating its impossible to show each step through which they passed through cause its happened over millions of years... Why is it so hard of us to believe that a God created them?
well than again some people would be happier saying the chair they are sitting on did indeed came to being without a creator (carpenter)
People accept evolution because there is a ton of evidence. Fossils and dna being the primary ones. Please read about evolution. I have recommended this site many a time so please go to berkley and read about evolution.
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by Nerd
would you you be kind enough to give the evolutionary steps through which this creature came to being?
You ask me this question knowing well, I cannot answer it to you. I'm not an expert in this domain. Anyway, whatever I will show you up, you would not believe it and dig deeper and deeper till I would give up.
I guess it is so hard to proove you the geneologicial tree from this insect as much as you will be able to proove me the existance of God, because both of us have already made up our minds. Isn't it?
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nature cant function without a controller...
errmmm, Nature can exist without humans, but humans cannot exist without Nature, so all in all, a God is also not needed. Nature can still exist, same as the rest of the universe
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nature cant function without a controller...
evidence? and what do you mean by function and controller?
Last i checked nature works quite nicely without any guide. Or did you mean the IPU? well we all know IPU is actually behind the lines controlling everything.
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
You ask me this question knowing well, I cannot answer it to you. I'm not an expert in this domain. Anyway, whatever I will show you up, you would not believe it and dig deeper and deeper till I would give up.
I am only seeking Solid evidence for your claim that the creature we are discussing did in fact evolve
Because its really hard for Atheists, Muslims and let's say Human beings to accept things without EMPIRICAL PROOF, especially in this age and time of Science
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by Nerd
I think we have all side-tracked from the topic, let me restate the questions..
1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shape of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?
I think the questions quoted above have been ignored as they are irrelevant to the issue Makky raised before presenting them, but the answers are, of course, 'no', 'no' and 'no'. But neither evolution or creationism, or anything in between, requires them to be 'yes'.
Its either God or Nature which made this fantastic creature... if it is indeed evolution: would someone care to give exact details as from which insect this creature evolved from? even better if someone would be kind enough to trail it back to the first insect or cell from which it evolved and give a detailed description of the steps involved
Nobody knows the 'exact details', as every evolutionary scientist will happily admit. Unfortunately fossil evidence, by its very nature, is not available regarding every one of millions of species that evolved into millions of other species, and even if it was it would take centuries of time and effort to piece it all together. The thing is, though, that doesn't weaken the case for evolution in the slightest. The basic mechanism is understood (or at least we have a strong theory that fits the vast amount of evidence that is available, with no plausible scientific alternatives at present) and filling in the gaps (especially with God - which is what ID does) is not required.
You say that "its either God or Nature which made this fantastic creature". Why are you so quick to assume them to be mutually exclusive.. if there is a God surely He would be responsible for 'nature'? What would you consider wrong with this argument, for example:
(assumed for sake of argument); God created the universe.
(ditto); God was responsible for the first spark of life.
God designed the mechanism of evolution. Being omniscient and omnipotent he designed that mechanism to produce exactly what he wanted produced when he wanted it. From that first microbobe, evolution, designed by God, has been happily chuntering along with God (obviously) knowing the results.. including the creation of man, from the word go.
Why is that somehow less acceptable than the idea either that evolution doesn't exist (creationism) or that it does, but God - presumably not having managed to get it right in the first place - has to tinker with it from time to time (intelligent design)? It seems to come down to no more than some 19th century revulsion at the idea our ancestors may have been monkeys! Evolution/natural selection and theism are NOT incompatible, but it seems to me the false assumption that they are is why we see the persistent refusal by some to reject the vast balance of scientific evidence for the former in favour of the latter which is supported by no scientific evidence at all. "Irreducable complexity" has been pretty much shot-down completely, but creationist websites won't tell you that. 'God of the gaps' is feeble, both as philosophy and as science.
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
why do people rely so much on the tangible..
do you not realise that when killing an innocent human being a deep feeling strikes the heart,
do you not realise that when stealing/fornicating etc for the first time causes such huge displeasure to the heart.
the one who controls these feelings controls nature...
whats IPU
1. what do you mean?
2. not everyone. but in general i would say that "feeling" deals with empathy.
3. not everyone. once again empathy for the stealing. and i never had any displeasure of the heart when i had sex for the first time.
4. IPU=Invisible Pink Unicorn.
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ Ranma, your telling me you felt no stinging in the heart whatso ever?
tell me how was your lifestyle before you did it the first time ?
was it full of sin?
perhaps your heart was already stone... to feel such things..
Why should i have a "stinging in my heart" from having sex?
I felt something but it wasnt a stinging.
I myself have led a very "good" life. As for sin, i dont believe in it and it is in general a very vauge concept. For clarity on my part. I in general describe good actions as being selfless and bad as being selfish. Typical mono theists gods seem to be very selfish beings.
Good fosters thinking and understanding, bad doesnt.
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
Brothers and sisters! we need to pause secondary arguments
Jazakum Allahu khairan and thanks in advance for your help in organizing this thread.
I'm just reminding you with the origional post and questions :
Questions 1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shap of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?
ranma1/2 ,Trumble ,Dave2 and guyabano and any other Atheists are welcome to answer,comment and ask
...
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Re: Allah and Camouflage...(Atheists!!,Agnostics!! and seculars!!)
format_quote Originally Posted by Makky
Brothers and sisters! we need to pause secondary arguments
Jazakum Allahu khairan and thanks in advance for your help in organizing this thread.
I'm just reminding you with the origional post and questions :
ranma1/2 ,Trumble ,Dave2 and guyabano and any other Atheists are welcome to answer,comment and ask
...
these questions have been answered.
1- Did this insect look at the mirror when it was born?
no
2-Does it know what the word camouflage means?
no
3-Even if it knows, could it draw a shap of leaf on its back a full detailed leaf even with ribs and dry spots?
no.
These questions have nothing to do with evolution.
Evolution does not have a goal. these creatures were evolved over time and i answered you question in my initial posts i believe. Could you please reply to our posts?
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