If Islam is the right path, why have muslims been killing each other for 1400 years?

format_quote Originally Posted by nifurebo

If Islam is the right path, why have muslims been killing each other for 1400 years?

Not all people who call themselves or are called Muslim, follow Islam.

Muslims are getting away from the Quran thats why they are fighting each other... The splitting of Muslims into groups have caused more fights... Shias and Sunnis mainly but the Quran clearly states dividing islam into groups is forbiden.. Honestly to me.. Muslims have become bad people (not all)... I can see christians who are better "Muslims" than real muslims... I feel ashamed seeing my brothers like this... but I dunno... On the otherside... there are also good muslims... The city I live in, Toronto, I see people praying and I think they are good muslims.. but once they are outside the mosque... I see them gambling, drinking, smoking, and etc... What kinda hypocrites have these muslims become...muslims got messed up.... but Islam will never change... There is a difference between Islam and muslims... So dont let the "muslims" brainwash you about Islam...

PS... Dont take this to harsh on urself... I myself feel that I am a hypocrite too but I try my best...

format_quote Originally Posted by nifurebo

If Islam is the right path, why have muslims been killing each other for 1400 years?

Yes Islam is the right path - The fact is muslims are in the right path(way) but most of them are just standing in that chosen path(way) and not moving forward in that right path..

(They are just standing there with no improvement to reach the goal)

Actually, Muslims have not been killing each other for 1400 years. To kill a Muslim brother or sister has very, very dire consequences in the hereafter, therefore anybody who's in their right mind would not do so. But not everybody's in their right mind, are they? And just how many Muslims today or throughout history are real Muslims?

That should answer your question...

And to clarify the backbiting thing...idunno what relevance it has to the thread but whatever. "Backbiting" is a term some people use to describe talking badly about someone behind their backs (while they're not present) without the necessity to do so. Again I don't see the relevance of this, but -- there ya go!

Actually human kills each other since the Habil and Qabil (son's of Adam)

Here is the story:

Allah describes the evil end and consequence of transgression, envy and injustice in the story of the two sons of Adam, Habil and Qabil. One of them fought against the other and killed him out of envy and transgression, because of the bounty that Allah gave his brother and because the sacrifice that he sincerely offered to Allah was accepted. The murdered brother earned forgiveness for his sins and was admitted into Paradise, while the murderer failed and earned a losing deal in both the lives. Allah said,

(And recite to them the story of the two sons of Adam in truth meaning, tell these envious, unjust people, the brothers of swine and apes from the Jews and their likes among mankind, the story of the two sons of Adam, Habil and Qabil, as many scholars among the Salaf and later generations said. Allah's statement,

(in truth means, clearly and without ambiguity, alteration, confusion, change, addition or deletion. Allah said in other Ayat,

(Verily, this is the true narrative ﴿about the story of `Isa﴾,)

(We narrate unto you their story with truth, ) and,

(Such is `Isa, son of Maryam. (It is) a statement of truth.) Several scholars among the Salaf and the later generations said that Allah allowed Adam to marry his daughters to his sons because of the necessity of such action. They also said that in every pregnancy, Adam was given a twin, a male and a female, and he used to give the female of one twin, to the male of the other twin, in marriage. Habil's sister was not beautiful while Qabil's sister was beautiful, resulting in Qabil wanting her for himself, instead of his brother. Adam refused unless they both offer a sacrifice, and he whose sacrifice was accepted, would marry Qabil's sister. Habil's sacrifice was accepted, while Qabil's sacrifice was rejected, and thus what Allah told us about them occurred. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said -- that during the time of Adam -- "The woman was not allowed in marriage for her male twin, but Adam was commanded to marry her to any of her other brothers. In each pregnancy, Adam was given a twin, a male and a female. A beautiful daughter was once born for Adam and another one that was not beautiful. So the twin brother of the ugly daughter said, `Marry your sister to me and I will marry my sister to you.' He said, `No, for I have more right to my sister.' So they both offered a sacrifice. The sacrifice of the one who offered the sheep was accepted while the sacrifice of the other ﴿the twin brother of the beautiful daughter﴾, which consisted of some produce, was not accepted. So the latter killed his brother.'' This story has a better than good chain of narration. The statement,

("Verily, Allah accepts only from those who have Taqwa.) who fear Allah in their actions. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, "If I become certain that Allah has accepted even one prayer from me, it will be better for me than this life and all that in it. This is because Allah says,

(Verily, Allah accepts only from the those who have Taqwa.) The statement,

("If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear Allah; the Lord of all that exists.") Qabil's brother, the pious man whose sacrifice was accepted because of his piety, said to his brother, who threatened to kill him without justification,

(If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you,) I will not commit the same evil act that you threaten to commit, so that I will not earn the same sin as you,

(for I fear Allah; the Lord of the all that exists.) and, as a result, I will not commit the error that you threaten to commit. Rather, I will observe patience and endurance. `Abdullah bin `Amr said, "By Allah! Habil was the stronger of the two men. But, fear of Allah restricted his hand.'' The Prophet said in a Hadith recorded in the Two Sahihs,

(When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hellfire.) They said, "O Allah's Messenger! It is all right for the murderer, but what about the victim'' Allah's Messenger replied,

(He surely had the intention to kill his comrade.) Imam Ahmad recorded that, at the beginning of the calamity that `Uthman suffered from, Sa`d bin Abi Waqqas said, "I bear witness that the Messenger of Allah said,

(There will be a Fitnah, and he who sits idle during it is better than he who stands up, and he who stands up in it is better than he who walks, and he who walks is better than he who is walking at a fast pace.) When he was asked, `What if someone enters my home and stretched his hand to kill me' He said,

(Be just like (the pious) son of Adam.)'' At-Tirmidhi also recorded it this way, and said, "This Hadith is Hasan, and similar is reported on this subject from Abu Hurayrah, Khabbab bin Al-Aratt, Abu Bakr, Ibn Mas`ud, Abu Waqid and Abu Musa.'' The Qur'an continues,

("Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the wrongdoers.") Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak, As-Suddi and Qatadah said that,

("Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours...") means, the sin of murdering me, in addition to your previous sins. Ibn Jarir recorded this. Allah's statement,

(So the soul of the other encouraged him and made fair-seeming to him the murder of his brother; he murdered him and became one of the losers.) means, his conscience encouraged him to kill his brother by making it seem like a sensible thing to do, so he killed him, even after his brother admonished him. Ibn Jarir said, "When he wanted to kill his brother, he started to twist his neck. So Shaytan took an animal and placed its head on a rock, then he took another rock, and smashed its head with it until he killed it while the son of Adam was looking. So he did the same thing to his brother.'' Ibn Abi Hatim also recorded this. `Abdullah bin Wahb said that `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that his father said, "Qabil held Habil by the head to kill him, so Habil laid down for him and Qabil started twisting Habil's head, not knowing how to kill him. Shaytan came to Qabil and said, `Do you want to kill him' He said, `Yes.' Shaytan said, `Take that stone and throw it on his head.' So Qabil took the stone and threw it at his brother's head and smashed his head. Shaytan then went to Hawwa' in a hurry and said to her, `O Hawwa'! Qabil killed Habil.' She asked him, `Woe to you! What does `kill' mean' He said, `He will no longer eat, drink or move.' She said, `And that is death' He said, `Yes it is.' So she started to weep until Adam came to her while she was weeping and said, `What is the matter with you' She did not answer him. He asked her two more times, but she did not answer him. So he said, `You and your daughters will inherit the practice of weeping, while I and my sons are free of it.''' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded it. Allah's statement,

(And became one of the losers.) in this life and the Hereafter, and which loss is worse than this Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Any soul that is unjustly killed, then the first son of Adam will carry a burden of its shedding, for he was the first to practice the crime of murder.) The Group, with the exception of Abu Dawud, also recorded this Hadith. Ibn Jarir recorded that `Abdullah bin `Amr used to say, "The son of Adam, who killed his brother, will be the most miserable among men. There is no blood shed on earth since he killed his brother, until the Day of Resurrection, but he will carry a burden from it, for he was the first person to establish murder.'' Allah said,

(Then Allah sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him how to hide the dead body of his brother. He (the murderer) said, "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother'' Then he became one of those who regretted.) As-Suddi said that the Companions said, "When his brother died, Qabil left him on the bare ground and did not know how to bury him. Allah sent two crows, which fought with each other until one of them killed the other. So it dug a hole and threw sand over the dead corpse (which it placed in the hole). When Qabil saw that, he said,

("Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother'') `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "A crow came to the dead corpse of another crow and threw sand over it, until it hid it in the ground. He who killed his brother said,

(Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother)'' Al-Hasan Al-Basri commented on the statement,

(Then he became one of those who regretted.) "Allah made him feel sorrow after the loss that he earned.''

source

There are many Prophecies to explain this by the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) himself;

Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 180:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I heard the truthful and trusted by Allah (i.e., the Prophet) saying, "The destruction of my followers will be through the hands of young men from Quraish."


This hadith has been explained by the scholars, and we know that the first hereditary Khilafah/Caliphates were of Bani Umayya, then Bani Abbaas. Both these sub tribes were from the Quraish.

There was a great deal amount of turmoil and oppression during the times of these two dynasties, since each tribe wanted to get the authority and the Khilafah/Caliphate of the Muslim World. They fought against each other and there were many revolutions from both parties.




This fits the description which the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said;


I do not fear poverty for you. But, I fear that the world will become prosperous for you as it became prosperous for those before you. Then you will rush into it as those before you rushed into it It will then ruin you as it ruined those before you.

[Authentically Recorded in Sahih Muslim]

This is EXACTLY what happened, and this is one of the greatest reasons for our weakness as Muslims throughout history. Aswell as the believers in the nations before us.




The following ahadith explain the issue further in depth;

Narrated Abu Sa'id (May Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:


"Surely, you will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, in everything as one arrow resembles another, (i.e. just like them), so much so that even if they entered a hole of a sand-lizard, you would enter it."

They said, "O Allah's Messenger! Do you mean to say that we will follow the Jews and the Christians?"

He replied, "Whom else?" (meaning, of course the Jews and the Christians)."


(Recorded authentically in Sahih Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Did the Jews and Christian sects fight amongst each other? Yes they did, a great deal.

Muslim reports from Thawban (May Allah be pleased with him) that Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said:

"Allah the Most Exalted folded for me the earth, so much so that I saw its easts and wests (i.e. the extremities). The kingdom of my community will reach as far as the earth was folded for me.

The two treasures, the red (gold) and the white (silver) were bestowed on me, I prayed to my Lord that He may not destroy my community by a prevailing famine, and not give their control to an enemy who annihilates them en masse except from among themselves. My Lord said to me, 'Muhammad, if I issue a decree, it is not withdrawn; I have promised your Ummah [nation] that I will not destroy it by a prevailing famine, and I shall not give their control to an enemy -except from among themselves -who exterminates them en masse, even if they are stormed from all sides of the earth; only a section of them will destroy another section, and a section will take as prisoner another section.' "

There are a number of signs in the statement of the Prophet (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him):

• Allah folded for him (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) the east and the west (i.e. the lands under the control of Islam); the meaning of it; and that it indeed occurred as he informed; as opposed to the north and the south.

• That two treasures (i.e. treasures of Rome and Persia) were bestowed upon him.

• That two of his D'ua (invocations) on behalf of his nation have been accepted.

• That the third of his invocations was prevented.

• That the sword would be used and that it would not be lifted after that.

• That false prophets would appear among this nation (the Muslims).

• There would always be a victorious group.

• All of this occurred as he mentioned even though each one of them was far from what could have been conceived.

Al-Barqani (May Allah be pleased with him) recorded this Hadith in his Sahih and added to it the following words:

I am afraid about my community of those astray leaders who will lead astray. When the sword is used among my people, it will not be withdrawn from them till the Day of Resurrection, and the Last Hour will not come until the tribes of my people attach themselves to the polytheists and tribes of my people worship idols. There will be among my people thirty great liars each of them asserting that he is a prophet, whereas I am the Seal of the Prophets after whom (me) there will be no Prophet; and a section of my people will continue to hold to the truth and they will be victorious and they will not be harmed by those who oppose them till Allah's Command comes."

Conclusion:

- We see from the many narrations of Prophecies of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) It has been Prophecised that there will be amongst us (The Muslims) people who will fall into the exact same traps and patterns that the Jews and the Christians fell into. To the extent that even if they ran into a lizards hole, these Muslims would follow them!


- There will be factions of believers who will fight amongst each other, this started from the murder of Uthman (the 3rd Khalifah/Caliph, and companion of Allaah's Messenger.) The Messenger of Allah spoke the truth when he said the sword will not be withdrawn uptill the Day of Ressurection.

There is further proof in other ahadith where there are other sects like Al Khawaarij, and other less explicit ahadith which state that the Shi'a will follow Al-Dajjaal [the Anti Christ.] Which then proves this point further, because the Messiah/Christ, Jesus son of Mary will come near the end times to fight the Anti Christ. So we see that there will be sects among us even uptill that time (i.e. near the end times when the Anti Christ [Al Dajjaal] comes.)


- We also see from the narrations that Allaah has promised that the Muslims as a whole will never be eradicated, even if the whole world tried to eradicate Islam. Allaah will always allow some to remain upon the truth, who will be on the world to establish His religion which He has sent to us.

So we see that this is through the wisdom of Allaah, and without a doubt - He is the All Knowing, the Wise. We know that whatever He decrees is for our own good, even if we can't understand that good, since we are merely humans who are only aware of the present. Whereas Allaah knows what lies ahead of us, and what is behind us.


The Prophecies above then clarify that Islaam is the truth since the Prophecies have truly come into effect exactly as the final Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has Prophecised. This then further strengthens Islaam since the Messenger of Allaah/God warned us of these events already, instead of us feeling confused and doubting the events which were to come later, without any prior knowledge.

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

(Qur’an 17.81)

Some more Prophecies can be viewed here;
Prophecies





And Allaah Almighty knows best.






Peace.

Salaam/peace;

format_quote Originally Posted by nifurebo

If Islam is the right path, why have muslims been killing each other for 1400 years?

because Islam is more than 100 % perfect but Muslims are not

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

From the link Encolpious gave:

Going by that, you can't say that, "no true muslim would murder" is a fallacy, because, by definition, a muslim is one who follows Islam, and it is haraam (forbidden) in Islam to murder.

so what about the wars "or conflicts" mohamad acted in?

perhaps you can tell us about the 'wars' instead of dropping the famous one liners?...
even a schoolboy's imbecility is supposed to have some ascertainable point!.. do tell us of the history you know, without some cuts & pastes or referencing to talk origin as you so often do when lacking basic reason!

format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia

perhaps you can tell us about the 'wars' instead of dropping the famous one liners?...
even a schoolboy's imbecility is supposed to have some ascertainable point!.. do tell us of the history you know, without some cuts & pastes or referencing to talk origin as you so often do when lacking basic reason!

no need. they stated no "true muslim" would murder. how would the historical actions of muhammad reflect then. is he a true muslim then?

back to the true scottsman.

format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2

no need. they stated no "true muslim" would murder. how would the historical actions of muhammad reflect then. is he a true muslim then?

back to the true scottsman.

actually it is of Most relevance.. if I Killed unlawfully your mother, have you any rights? since you often contend of the high moral values of Atheists... Would renouncing 'justice' make you a true Atheist? How would the historical actions of the Atheist reflect then?

please tell me which is it, are you simply unlearned but enjoy the sight of your own SN on a web page or are you a person who professes beliefs and opinions that you truly do not hold in order to conceal your ignorance and your motives? in other words a hypocrite.. This questionnaire really has a no C choice.. I think everyone here sees through the transparency of your charade... If you don't like Islam or Muslims, then don't be a member here especially if you can't impart any impression of value!