Please Explain

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format_quote Originally Posted by believer

The videos in all that Anti-Islam sites are not Muslims... they are Shia's - (****tes)... in Iran. No real Muslim will shout the Takbeer in vain or in a hostile and angry manner... in fact - the Takbeer is holy enough that it should be - not spoken in vain.

These Iranian sect - takes joy in human suffering and killing - specially if it involves real Muslims...

I also noticed that these Jewish sites have the same trademarks... they thrive in sensationalism propaganda.

They also are big fan of Hollywood Materials... the use of colors for one... Headliners that cathes attention.... but nothing significant really coming afterward...

Also another element signature element is that the reader or viewer will feel hatred and dissillusionment afterwards without really having a clear reason why?

The fact that Guyabano is a fan of this... well, makes him no less than anything of the lower intellect.

If you really think you can infiltrate and destroy this comunity.... you are in clear error.

TRUTH WILL COME OUT even if you build a mountain of lies over it... Deception is one way... Mockery is its' Evil Twin.

A deciever will show a different face in front of the believers but when he is with his friends and cohorts - they mock us.

So how are you doing so far?

If you think I will fade away... nope... I am just getting warmed up.

Apologies to the sisters and brothers but - Islam also teaches us not to be soft in speech and not to turn our heads in the East or the West whenever we encounter such individuals or situation.

-guyabano - I don't want you to be out of this thread... in fact - I want to keep you within... Lets demonstrate to the community what you are really made of. And if you think what you have is better than what we have - let's put it to the test.

you started it - let me do the finishing touches.

Who is in error and who not, is not the point. A forum is to discuss, not to challenge. If you think so, then you are on the wrong place.

And please, stay on topic, you're about to drift and loose control too.

Oh, give me a valid reason why you want to keep me in this thread? 2 others failed already and you will just be another in the list.
My point is to have fair discussions, that's all. I didn't say bad words when you argue, I just mentionned that you are wrong and you have to accept the facts, so please leave these silly comments upon threatening me 'putting to a test' as you will blatantly fail. I'm pretty sure, I have a little bit more selfcontrol and life-experience as you do.

In the second video were cleary to see IRANIANS (not sect or whatever) who stoned a woman. This belongs to the category 'barbaric' and guess what, it happened in 2004, that is according to our time 'not so long time ago'.
There was nothing propaganda, even the TV Channel it has been sent was Iranian. So I don't know what you are trying to tell me, but instead, open your eyes and have the decency to say "Yes, it is not right what happened there" and don't start with some strange theories that they are not muslims.

In every society, there are good ones and bad ones. Christians as well as muslims contribute to these ugly parts in our history. Instead of comming closer and learn how to accept our mistakes we all made, people like you just try again to stir up some anger and hatred.

And never forget, in another's religion's point of view, you are also nothing more but ..a kuffar ! So learn to accept different-thinking and see the world from different angles!

strange! mimi and popo are sending lil ole me to Coventry

This thread has strayed very far from it's beginings. A number of posts have just been deleted. A few because they were inappropriate. Many because they referred to the inappropriate posts and some simply because the topic had been sidetracked.

Now let us all try to stay on topic and keep all replies directed to the topic and not to any member posting.

I may have missed deleting some posts that need deleting, if you see any please PM me.

format_quote Originally Posted by barney

And in times of ignorance witches were burned at the stake, their crimes were blasphemy against God.
Stoning is a prescribed islamic punishment that is carried out today.

Mankind cant progress when it is locked in thousands of year old bigotry.


What did the pre-islamic arabs do to adulterers? Stone them.
Pagan laws went unchanged. Why?
Did Pagans stumble across Gods chosen desires for adulterers?

Well ok, in these modern hip times where we dont mow down sunday shoppers for working on sunday, or immolate rock bands are we progressing? Surely we are going against Gods will!

Islamic revalations on punishment were in my opinion instituted to fit in with the society of that day and age. once they became Gods unchangable word then mankind is doomed to sit in the age of ignorance and barbarism for eternity.

First of all, i don't know what the punishment for adulterers were in pre islamic arabia, and i'm too tired to look it up. I do know that there wasn't alot of emphasis on morality and there is evidence to suggest they were sexually permissive. For example, prostitutes would wear dangly items/trinkets that would jingle to attract men. Also some of the people of pre islamic arabia used to circumambulate the Kaba naked. There was not emphasis on morality in pre islamic arabia.

The witch hunts, the spanish inquisition, the tyranny of the Hitler regime....these are all different than what we are talking about here. For example, during the salem witch hunts the leaders of the era would go out and find anybody they suspected of witch craft and burn/torture them.

But in this case the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) did not have a secret police that monitored his followers. He didn't have spys or loyal/preferred supporters who's role it was to call sinners out to the open. In fact, to accuse anybody of a adultery without 4 witnesses would mean punishment by 80 lashes. The adulterer and the adulteress both had the opportunity to walk away from punishement, but they didn't...even though they knew what the punishment for their sin would be. Unlike the Salem witch trials where they'd burn/drown/torture anybody that they *suspected* of being a witch, during the time of the prophet i believe these were the only 2 believers that were stoned to death for adultery (i know of no other hadith relating to another incident of a mu'min being stoned to death for adultery).

The prophet Muhammed (pbuh) made it clear that if we repent our sins to Allah (SWT) insha allah He will for give us. Sometimes I wonder why it is these two people turned themselves in. I do know that the followers of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) had very sensitive hearts and were very fearful of Allah (SWT). They feared the punishement in the grave far more than anything in life. They feared the punishment of hellfire far worse than anything in life. They feared incurring the anger of God far worse than anything in life. They believed that no punishment here on earth could come close to punishment in the afterlife. So these two people who committed a great sin chose their punishement on earth instead of punishment in the afterlife.

Yet today, our hearts have hardened a little bit....many people aren't as sensitive to the consequences of sinning....maybe that is why we don't quite understand the motivation of these two individuals.

Now, i have to agree with you Barney, that i don't agree with stoning in today's world. Not because i don't believe in the quran, or somehow feel that God's word needs to be changed. I believe that the Muslim leaders are corrupt and do not follow Islam as it was revealed. Most of the leaders enforce the strictest of laws while they indulge in the pleasures of the world. On the other side of the spectrum there are oppressive leaders that use bits and pieces of religion as a method of controlling the people. Also, in many parts of the world, the islamic leaders oppress the true islamic scholars and students because they know they'd lose power should muslims unite against these governments. There is no true Islamic government in existence today. How can a governing body enforce a law when they themselves are lawless?

On a final note, islam places an emphasis on the sanctity of marriage. Adultery is an extreme injustice and oppression against a spouse (ask anybody whose had a spouse cheat on them and you'll see what i mean) and is a violation of a the vow one gives in God's name to be faithful and honorable to their husband or wife. Punishing adultery is not bigotry. A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. Punishing somebody for breaking the law does not make somebody a bigot ESPECIALLY when that person turns themselves in for punishment. Now, IF the muslims only punished non believers for adultery and overlooking their own sins....you could argue bigotry...but it was just the reverse. The believers were the ones that were punished while the disbelievers were left alone. WHY? Because the believers BELIEVED in Allah (SWT) and his laws and the afterlife and the prophet knew that by facing punishement in this life, the ummah would be purified for the afterlife. The non believer do not believe in Allah (SWT) or his laws or the afterlife....so they have bigger issues to address with Allah (SWT) than the punishment of adultery.

Now, with you being non Muslim, you have the option of not believing in the laws of Allah (SWT), so if you were living in the time of the prophet and committed adultery, you would have been left alone. During the Salem witch trials, however, or any other period of human oppression, you would have been tortured and oppressed for not submitting to the laws of man.

and Allah (SWT) knows best, may he give you guidance.

Peace