Islam Is Here, Islam Is Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Md Mashud

Are those rights, those extra rights you have - good for society - which say Islamic sharia may remove? Don't forget, democracy removes alot of rights from you - for the better of society. Theocracy just has more restrictions - which could only be seen as positive. But, people do usually like whats more comfortable/better for them as individuals, rather than a community - hence why we have the current system.

You are confusing negative rights and positive rights. In a democracy I have much more negative rights than I would ever have under a theocracy and being a non-muslim, I also have more positive rights under a liberal democracy.

As a community, liberal democracy is better than sharia simply because sharia favors muslims and the majority are not muslims. (This also ignores sect related sharia)

format_quote Originally Posted by tarek29

Liberal Democracy PROVED its failure when compared to Islamic Sharia beside that if we make general comparison:

1- Sharia: Is made for All Man Kind and not Muslims only!

Liberal Democracy: Made for specific group and dont care about others even if this means waging wars or killing others for money and power and stealing fortunes!

No, Sharia does favor muslims. Under sharia, I cant question the Qur'an or Muhammed, or even vote to change aspects of the constitution. I also cant promote my faith and evangelize (assuming I had one). If I were gay, I would be stonned. I would not be able to have a quiet lunch outside with my female friends in casual wear etc.

Plz point out what aspect of liberal democracy favors one group over another.

2- Sharia: Solves all social problems from roots!

Liberal Democracy: failed to solve a lot of social problems, but actually it gave a good space for those problems to grow!

Except for economic problems such as business cycles, financial contagion, FDI leverage, Tragedy of the commons, disgruntled minorities etc.

At its best, a sharia state would be like a much less flexible Keynesian state. The Keynesian state ultimately failed because of stagflation. Sharia state would be less flexible and the global economics conditions are even more accelerated so there is no real to believe it happen again to a Sharia state only faster.

Please tell me which social problem a liberal democracy model hlped grow. If you mean women's rights, minority rights, ending slavery etc, you are correct. How dare these non-men and whites think they are ppl?laying:

3-Sharia: Is made by GOD (I know this you dont believe) and it were given to us by ONE Illiterate man living in Desert!

Liberal Democracy: Is made by HUMANS a lot of them!

And a non-muslim would argue Sharia is made by a human (muhammed) or a small group of them. Better the combined minds of intellectuals as opposed to the a small group of minds of ancient theologians.

4-Sharia: CONTAIN EVIL inside and outside!

Liberal Democracy: cannot contain EVIL!


I assume you mean "moral evils" because I have shown that real nasty stuff is actually fanned under a wholly shariah state.

The moral assumption is entirely subjective and as I said, most states are non-muslim so this doesnt hold water either.

5- Sharia: gives freedom and protection for all man kind (women before men) with balance between personal freedom and general freedom of the community!

Liberal Democracy: only give FAKE Personal freedom!

What is "fake personal freedom"? If you mean right to vote, education, freedom from persecution, freedom to practise religion etc. Then thats entirely a liberal democracies doing.

Those are some General comparisons,

but we can also compare Islamic Laws comparing it to all other systems now and in History, and you will find that all MAJOR EVIL didnt come from MUSLIM communities but from non Muslim communities whether they are religious or not!

Actually if you TEST what I mentioned above you will end to one conclusion that Islam is the best way for all Man Kind!

May Allah (swt) guide us all!

Peace

Except of course for reality where all attempts at Muslim states have failed, miserably. And I dont particularly want to risk what I have just "God says its best".

format_quote Originally Posted by tarek29

1- During soviet union try to say you are communist and this is the best way to live.

2-Present times try to say for example you don’t believe in Holo cost that it happened, and see what will happen to you, like Europeans who said such things!

Except we now have proof as well as strong evidence that it is superior.

3-You Missed the whole point and the main point that I wanted to tell you and that when I said ISLAM For ALL MAN KIND it means for all Man Kind and Not for West countries only, or you didn’t notice that western countries FORCE Democarcy to the whole world.

If by force to the whole world, you mean US to Iraq, thats a strawman arguement. The US itself (ironically) isnt a true democracy but a representative republic. This still has nothing to do with a Liberal Democracy model and as I have shown (and you ahvent refuted) Sharia favors Muslims

When we will have Islamic Caliphate Again there will be different results in all aspects of life like BEFORE, see you are talking about Muslims now forgetting the History that gives good example in all aspects of life that Islam gave!

Yes, they will be worse off than in a liberal democracy.

Socially Islam gives the best solution and this we can find now because even our governments are not governing and following Islam (which is changing by time) and they under the pressure and force of your governments, beside that there is traitors and there is more then two hundred years of Invasions of your democratic countries, and till today our fortunes are stolen.

Following Islamic laws LEADS to structual problems. Precisely because it was meant for a very different time period and no longer holds any sort of bearing today. If you disagree, using Sharia, fix the problems I named. Aside from the US (which as I pointed out isnt a true democracy to begin with) which countries have invaded and plundered? Are they more than the Ottoman Empire plundered? Or more horrible than the islamic countries of today who (for the msot part) have a terrible record when it comes to human rights?

And all this because Authmanic Rulers at the end forgot Islam!

So we cannot Judge Islam in the section oif economics because you cannot find Muslim countries who follow Islamic system in this aspect!

Other points will be answered in next posts!

Of course they dont. An Islamic economy is absolutely terrible. It would fail within the first decade. (I am being generous)

format_quote Originally Posted by tarek29

First of all do you know to put LAWS in all aspects of life and to make those Laws fit all man kind and for all times what this needs from effort and experts!?

Now days if you change one Law in inheritance you bring experts and they search and research a lot, so that at the end they decide what to do!

And the claim of Prophet Mohamed having group with him is the most funny, do you know how many Muslims from them women, old people, children immigrated to Madina after 13 years Islam came!?

About 70 persons!

So those 70 from whom there were children and old people etc…. they made all this !?

By the way Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) would need not only specialists in all aspects of life, but he will need also translators so that he can read the Greek scriptures and books!

And tell me why there is things in Quran that ancient theologians did talk about!?

And he must be very clever that as he choose only the right things from ancient theologies that proved by science and experts in all fields!

See it is impossible that a man who were known as the Honest before Islam and were known to be Illiterate which means write and read (not scientist and expert in all fields) to write something like that, beside that you say group with him, they were living in Tribes in desert and if he had group of experts in all aspects of life and scientist in different fields plus translators this would be known easlly and exposed and ruin all what he said!

Other religions have their holy texts as well. Guess what, they also have "incredibly advanced concepts and grasps of science!" *gasp!* Muhammed is just the 'Philosopher King' that Plto describes. Hell, the state he formed is incredibily similar to Kallipolis.

And after all this he puts all this information in a way that no one can write even ONE VERSE like in Quran, and not only that He challenge anyone to find one Mistake or contradiction there, which is till today with ALLAH’s WILL PROVEN FACTS!

Next Post I will answer other points ensha2 Allah (swt)

Of course not, aside from the Qur'an, how many "great works" are written in Arabic? Or even old Arabic?

How come the Qur'an is vastly inferior when translated?

Exactly

format_quote Originally Posted by tarek29

For example you you say women in your countries free while your system FAILED to protect women and give her freedom except freedom of Cloths:

FBI report that you can read link below says about 100 000 women RAPED and ABUSED per year in AMERICA alone please enter this link and be sure of what I say:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/...blerape04.html

Is this is Freedom!?

Now compare that to the crimes that go unreported in the Middle_east. Whats that you say? Despite the enourmous number of unreported crmes, the Middle-east still has a high crime rate?!

Nice Strawman

When I think about it and watch someone who talks about women in west talks about freedom of women, I am amazed from people who say such thing!

You are right. Women are naturally weak both physically and mentally. Its why men HAVE to protect them right? O wait, you claimed Isam and Shariah are promoting equality of the sexes.

Seperate but equal eh? Well it was totally fair when While used that philosophy on blacks so it must be totally fair to use agaisnt women

This system of Freedom made Women very cheap, this system of freedom allows crimes to grow, China is about 1500 Million, America (freedom) are 300 Million, people in Prison in America more then in China if not two times as far as I remember this statistics!

I doubt your stats...thou even if tru, count the number of recoreded and non-recorded executions in China vs the US.

Are freedom is tyo allow crimes to expand!?

etc....

If you think deeply in things, you will find that freedom that you all defend are not freedom at all!

May Allah (swt) guide us all!

Peace

Actually it is, you are just scewing data for you're own benefit.

format_quote Originally Posted by tarek29

See all what you can talk about is Material things, see Material things when it comes from Invading others and killing humans this is called BLOODY MONEY, this is EVIL and like Jesus may peace be upon him said in the Bible, wolf in cloths of sheep!

See you are defending Evil, and it is Ironically and amazingly to see Christians defend a system that have nothing to do with Christianity in any way!

And you cannot compare what you called Muslim countries when they just came from more then 200 years of Invasions and stealing their fortunes till today and then say give us example, beside there is no Islamic countries now days, the most close is Saudi Arabia little close!

You are right, Muslims were always a happy bunch and never hurt anyone. Moore invasion? Nah. The Spanish wanted to be conquered.

Sarcasim aside, what does this have at all have to do with liberal democratic framework

But on the level on Muslims there is revolution because they begin to return to Islam, and as Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) said Islam Begin strange and will return strange!

See when you talk about Islam you talk about Islam and not Muslims, because if I talk about Christianity I don’t talk about Christians, and although I do that sometimes it is only to remind Christians and show them their mistake by Judging Islam with this or that incident happened by Muslims!

And In general Islam make people better and all Major Evil in the world came from non Muslim community!

May Allah (swt) guide us all!

Peace!

Unless of course you look at prison populations and history. The majority of wars as well as majority of criminals are theists.

One last pt and I promise to refrain from spamming

How does wishing Shariah on others any different from the idea of the Aryian Master Race?

In both cases you assume you know better than another groups thus making the silent assumption that you are inherently better than you're neighbour.

format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard

Of course they dont. An Islamic economy is absolutely terrible. It would fail within the first decade. (I am being generous)

1-During soviet union try to say you are communist and this is the best way to live.

2-Present times try to say for example you don’t believe in Holo cost that it happened, and see what will happen to you, like Europeans who said such things!

Except we now have proof as well as strong evidence that it is superior.

Sorry I didn’t understand what you want to say, superior or not superior, if you have opinion about this matter why cannot you just say it in democratic supposed free countries!?

3-You Missed the whole point and the main point that I wanted to tell you and that when I said ISLAM For ALL MAN KIND it means for all Man Kind and Not for West countries only, or you didn’t notice that western countries FORCE Democarcy to the whole world.

If by force to the whole world, you mean US to Iraq, thats a strawman arguement. The US itself (ironically) isnt a true democracy but a representative republic. This still has nothing to do with a Liberal Democracy model and as I have shown (and you ahvent refuted) Sharia favors Muslims

America is not alone in those crimes nor in forcing other countires in the word either by threatening or wars to force them what they want, and they do that with Muslims or non Muslims,

and sorry what did I dint refute !?

And where is that Liberal Democracy Model!?

When we will have Islamic Caliphate Again there will be different results in all aspects of life like BEFORE, see you are talking about Muslims now forgetting the History that gives good example in all aspects of life that Islam

gave!

Yes, they will be worse off than in a liberal democracy.

This is your opinion, if you notice in my threads I give you facts from present time and history, anyway It will be good to see you example of Liberal Democracy!

Socially Islam gives the best solution and this we can find now because even our governments are not governing and following Islam (which is changing by time) and they under the pressure and force of your governments, beside that there is traitors and there is more then two hundred years of Invasions of your democratic countries, and till today our fortunes are stolen.

Following Islamic laws LEADS to structual problems. Precisely because it was meant for a very different time period and no longer holds any sort of bearing today. If you disagree, using Sharia, fix the problems I named. Aside from the US (which as I pointed out isnt a true democracy to begin with) which countries have invaded and plundered? Are they more than the Ottoman Empire plundered? Or more horrible than the islamic countries of today who (for the msot part) have a terrible record when it comes to human rights?

I have two friends they resigned from UN because the reports coming from Darfur are and go to Geneva are fabricated and not what they send!

present time there is no ISLAMIC country as I told you in other posts, so why you keep bringing examples that Islam have nothing to do with!?

Beside if you read carefuly you will see that I wrote SOCIALLY and this works in present time!

and this because Muslims themselves follow Sharia even in those countries that you keep mentioning as Muslims governments!

See there is revolution in Islam on the level of nations!

And by the way Islam Proved as you will read in other posts that it gives solution for all aspects of life for PRESENT time, and the results in Muslim communities NOW you can see!

On the other hand you couldnt (for example) protect your women from Rape like I wrote in another post as example of social failure in present time, and still you dont have solution for such problems while Islam already gave Practical PROVED solution more then 1400 year ago!

May Allah (swt) guide us all!

Peace