Seems pretty clear to me, but if you feel like my understanding is flawed then provide the "proper" explination
That is relative isn't it? Seems pretty clear?
This is a longterm problem, as you know, of people interepreting Hadiths, maybe even division of muslims on the issue. Like hadiths, Quran must be taken with care. If something doesn't seem right, its probably because it isn't - and its better to get the opinion of a scholar on the matter - you most likely got the wrong meaning - even so because its a translation. Unlike hadith, Quran 1 ruling for the whole Quran.
If you arn't mutjahid/with itjihaad - you really don't have the right to it. Its a different matter if you asked scholars and seen the tafsir on matter and had a disagreement. But if you just present text, translated, say its wrong - and expect this to be respected grounds to falsify Islam...
If you want the right - ask a scholar or look up tafsir of it. I can guarantee you won't be dissapointed with answer. Im not a scholar - but since im tired now I can probably try look for some tafsir on it later :P
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
One could say gravity means God's love isnt holding as from floating off the earth lol
Huh?
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
This is a longterm problem, as you know, of people interepreting Hadiths, maybe even division of muslims on the issue. Like hadiths, Quran must be taken with care. If something doesn't seem right, its probably because it isn't - and its better to get the opinion of a scholar on the matter - you most likely got the wrong meaning - even so because its a translation. Unlike hadith, Quran 1 ruling for the whole Quran.
If you arn't mutjahid/with itjihaad - you really don't have the right to it. Its a different matter if you asked scholars and seen the tafsir on matter and had a disagreement. But if you just present text, translated, say its wrong - and expect this to be respected grounds to falsify Islam...
If you want the right - ask a scholar or look up tafsir of it. I can guarantee you won't be dissapointed with answer. Im not a scholar - but since im tired now I can probably try look for some tafsir on it later :P
I posted this in another thread but never really got an answer.
[67.5] YUSUF ALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
[15.16] YUSUF ALI: It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders;
[15.17] And (moreover) We have guarded them from every cursed devil:
[15.18] But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see).
[37.6] YUSUF ALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
[37.7] (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
[37.8] (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
[37.9] Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
[37.10] Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Anyways. If you go to a christian apologetics site they'll tell you what you are telling me, that surely any inconsistancies and absurdities are 'misunderstandings' on my part no matter what the text may say.
Unless I use circular logic, why should I believe either of you more than the other?
That said, Id like to re-dirct my post back to the original offer, what are some of the general problems in evolution?
A scientist shows that the world is round, everyone ignores him
A scientist claims the earth travels around the sun, people threaten to kill him
A scientist demonstrates electricity, he is called a witch
A scientist explains evolution, people come out with poorly researched halfassed arguments from googled websites that have been refuted time and time again and then attempt to get evolution taken out of science classes.
Why is it that despite scientists spending their lives in meticulous research, and open experimentation and documentation their theories are constantly ignored?
Evolution is an excellent theory spanning many disciplines, it has moved far from the realm of the Origin of Species into actual living examples, DNA models and mathematical proofs. People make arguments against it without even knowing what they are arguing about, this is equivalent to a bunch of people who know nothing about mechanics debating that a car cant work because its clearly impossible to make petrol turn into motion.
Well i've got news for you, the Koran does not refute the internal combustion engine, neither does it refute the theory of evolution.
It is a basic, in Islam. Even muslims, do not attempt to do what you do - that is read translation and make somthing of it. It is not an "excuse", their is Quran's over 1000 years - still available - showing Quran with tafsir of the texts, why would that exist if we could all just read and interperet?
As for christianity, I see what you mean about the bible. However, do christians have one original message of bible from the beginning? Was this ever created? Quran texts, to people as incapable as us, would just be a ambigious game of find 10 meanings per sentence. Tafsir was made once, at the start, for a reason - so people do not do this.
Most people are unaware as to what exactly Quran states about evolution.
Well i've got news for you, the Koran does not refute the internal combustion engine, neither does it refute the theory of evolution.
It denies macroevolution of humans.
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
How is God the "agent of evolution" when agency is given natural selection and trail and error. If God is responsible for this then he would be incredibly wasteful not to mention you are using God as being synonymus to chance.
That said, here is some evidence for human evolution (thus proof the Qur'an contradicts science)
How is God the "agent of evolution" when agency is given natural selection and trail and error.
You have made evolution its own agent - it came from nothing and formed everything?
I can't see how those websites can show Quran contradicts science. I mean, you can make it that those hominid fossils are of those of the human lineage - but really you can't say that for definite - its not just religious people who disagree but many atheist/agnostic scientists, so for fair play, its wrong to say Quran contradicts science. I have seen both sides on the evolution, I only wish I had a pHD in Microbiology, in hope that I could understand the complex science a bit more...
Some of the main issues is that, some of the different fossils - would appear that they cannot be linked with eachother and hence would mean they spiral out to different species - if they was to evolve - hard to explain but - maybe you know what I mean. It makes you wonder if truly one of the strands, did completly exist in full - and reach to the human lineage.
But assumptions aside, its hard to call it the be all and end for evolution - it depends how you look at the glass...
Last edited by Md Mashud; 09-23-2007 at 07:25 PM.
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
Don't get me wrong here but I wonder about how constructive all these threads concerning evolution are. It seems like the non-muslims are not inclined to change their position on that point and neither are the muslims. So what's the use of having threads that will end undoubtly by being closed???
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