The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

as salam alikum, Peace

in the name of God, Most merciful, Most kind.

Now, im not a scholar, nor do i know everything there is to know about islam.

But i do know that the prophet peace be upon him, was not a paedophile. He possessed no qualities of a paedophile. Majority of his marriages were to older women. His intentions were pure, his actions were pure, and he was pure!
I think that we have to remember, this was decreed by Allah subhanawatha allah.

People say history is like a different planet, well yes it is. It wasn't uncomman for girls' to be married after puberty. After all, this was the most beloved of all creation, the blessed prophet, the merciful prophet, the seal of the prophets.

Instead of thinking of this a 'morally disgusting', think back to the time the prophet peace be upon him, was alive. He came with miracles, blessing, teachings.He was kind, gentle and generous. He form this empire, built on faith. It was an honour for ANY girl to be married to him. This was the last of all the prophets!!!

a lack of love and understanding for the prophet peace be upon him, leads to ignorance. We must try not to go there. This marriage had no negative result, Only good came from it. Allah wanted this to happen, and it did!

:sunny:

allah knows best

wa alikum as salaam

I hope ppl arent saying that sayidna muhammad is a paedophile.:mad:

Allah ma3akum

well, that sum1 ought to get his/her facts right.:mad:
Sayidna muhammad was not a........He was a truely loving person. He would never have done such a....horrid thing to any child.


If u give the Prophet of Allah a bad name...u are giving the rest of the Muslims a bad name and that INCLUDES me....so, I suggest....u watch ur mouth!!!!

Peace!

format_quote Originally Posted by bin direnken

In order to have sex with a 9 year old girl, don't you have to be "sexually attracted" to her?

Unfortunately, the prophet grew up as an orphan, jumping around from home to home, never really feeling the love or attachments to a real family. He grew up almost powerless as he watched others come and go out of his life. And this lack of family stability was a tragic strike to his emotional well being. Quite possibly he used the innocence and naivity of young girls as a crutch of such, in order to regain some stability, control and comfort in his life. After all, this young girl was someone who truly needed him, as all young girls need adults for guidance in their lives. As was the other virgin minor that the prophet married later on.

But that need for "dependence" doesn't excuse transgressing the boundaries of moral integrity by engaging the young child in sexual relations. A nine year old and a fifty three year old simply have nothing in common and putting the title of 'marriage' on their relationship still categories this whole scenario as pedophilia in any light. It was nothing but a dangerous health risk for little Aisha.

Istighfarillah brother don't be brainwashed,

I am sure the prophet wasn't a sex freak, I think he was more experienced than anyone of you and I and I can tell you he isn't depressed about it and the prophet probably had his wisdom of marrying the 9 year old girl and a 9 year old girl wouldnt be given to the man if he wasn't well trusted by her father.

Life now is depressing for a virgin yet years ago it was a normal thing to be a virgin but today you look around and you see the temptations and perceptions are different now from decades ago.

Why is sex the first thing that pops in a man's mind before even sex there is sexual stimulation of the mind with through the sweet talking, romance and company of the married couple together is satisfying enough. Who knows when the prophet first had sex with Aishah (RA) and don't make assumptions, you don't gotta marry someone first night and get her laid that shows how horny a dog you are and it shows that you probably weren't virgin in the first place. Come on, you wait or your life until you get married say 22 or 25 years and you can't wait the first night without nailing your wife, oh maybe your answer is like I gotta breathe again man, breathe what. I don't think a 9 year old wants sex anyway and they say she consummated marriage a 9 but she really married at 13 or 14 don't question the prophet he is wiser than you so and even after Aishah grew and she related the hadiths and she never complained of the prophet taking her at 9 or 13.

Hello,

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson

Ansar, you mentioned Islamic law as saying that after a girl has had her menses she is considered to be a young woman. Is that law current?

Islamic law indeed places physical changes as the limit for marriage and once someone is past puberty they are considered a young man or a young woman. This concept is medically accurate in comparison to setting artificial limits. As far as marriage is cocnerned, then in previous times, even in the west, it was typical for marriage to occur early as children needed to take an active part in helping out around the house, farm, etc. It was not like today where people usually wait until after completeting their education.

I know different countries have different laws, but what I'm getting at is this: could a Muslim man have sex with a nine-year old girl today and use that law to justify himself?

As I repeatedly emphasized this is not about just 'sex' it is about marriage. Marriage is a life-long commitment that needs approval from both partners. See here for the conditions of marriage:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546572

Customs or 'urf plays a role as well. Depending on the society, in some cases marriage is done earlier than in others. But the bottom line is that it is done after puberty with the consent of both parties.

I've made my point and I still find this situation disturbing

What is disturbing about a girl being married after puberty by consent and being happy with her marriage as well? Just because today people get married later, why are historical customs 'disturbing'? Do you have any medical evidence to support your view?

And don't feel that you have to withdraw from the discussion at the risk of offending others. It is better to discuss these issues and research them properly, rather than let them fester within and create more misunderstandings. I have always been an advocate of evidence-based and respectful dialogue.

bin direnken,

Oh I'm sorry for not citing my sources. As a physicians assistant I speak from a scientific standpoint almost daily, and sometimes I forget that others do not have this kind of foundation to build upon.

That's not what I'm criticising you for. I am criticising you for building your claims on fallacious arguments such as red-herrings and strawmen and blatantly ignoring the evidence that has already been presented.

Let's deal with the claim of central precocious puberty first.

There is also condition called central precocious puberty and can affect young girls as young as four. These girls develop genital hair, budding breasts, active sweat glands and active menstrual cycles. In no way should they be considered sexually mature at this young age. In my professional opinion, the same can be said for menstruating nine year olds. If you want to verify this, please google the condition. There are a plethora of active links to help you in your search.

For someone who should be educated on this issue, you shall a remarkable lack of understanding. As per the Medline plus Medical Encyclopedia:

Precocious puberty is premature development of body characteristics that normally occur during puberty. (Puberty is the period in life when the body changes rapidly and develops reproductive capability). Puberty normally occurs between 13 and 15 years old in boys, and between 9 and 16 years old in girls.

In girls, precocious puberty is when any of the following develop before 8 years of age:

Breasts
Armpit or pubic hair
Mature external genitalia
First menstruation

(SOURCE, emphasis added)

The Nemours Foundation concurrs with the description as well:

Precocious puberty - the onset of signs of puberty before age 7 or 8 in girls and age 9 in boys - can be physically and emotionally difficult for children and can sometimes be the sign of an underlying health problem. (SOURCE)

So our Medical references confirm that it is normal for girls to attain puberty at the age of nine, and it is only abnormal if it occurs before the age of 7/8. As we know from the hadith, Aisha was certainly passed the age of nine!

Furthermore, the medical encyclopedia also notes:

Children of both sexes with early sexual development are more likely to have psycho-social problems. Children and adolescents generally want to be the same as their peers, and early sexual development can make them appear "different". This can result in self-esteem problems, depression, acting out at school and home, and alcohol and illegal substance abuse.(SOURCE)

Now we also know that Aisha rd did not fit these characteristics in the slightest way possible. She was then and remained since a confident, in fact very bold young women who took an active part in her community later assuming the role of leadership on a military level as well as an educational level.

And the major part that demonstrates that you didn't do your homework is the fact that this is an abnormality. But we have already established that the marriage was absolutely normal then. In fact Aisha was engaged to someone else before the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Please read the following links as you still have not addressed any of the points that were previously mentioned, and you continue to use red-herrings as your primary method of argumentation:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...e_of_Aishah/#6
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...e_of_Aishah/#8

When I spoke of fistulas, you may verify these early childbirth dangers on the following webpage:
www.endfistula.org

Did you even read what I wrote in response?! I said it was a red-herring. In other words fistulas have nothing to do with the marriage of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is all related to prepubescent brides and the Prophet saws married Aisha rd after puberty!

Bin direnken, I highly suggest that you review the material posted here and provide evidence to support your conclusions about the Prophet's marriage as opposed to building your arguments on conjecture.

Regards

Again bin direnken, you failed to provide any evidence to support your claims.

Not only did you make a blunder by bringing up precocious puberty which doesn't apply to Aisha since she was past 9 years of age, but you failed to respond to the major points mentioned. The following two points have been established:

- it is normal for a girl to achieve puberty anywhere between nine and sixteen years of age (as per the medical references quoted previously)
- Aisha rd consummated her marriage after the age of nine
->therefore there is no reason to believe that Aisha was prepubescent, especially since many of the physical milestones of puberty such as menses, were recorded as happening before consummation of the marriage

For your case aginst the Prophet's marriage you would have to refute these points. If you cannot refute these points then your case is destroyed. So, no more evasions, no more red-herrings. I challenge you to respond to these points.

format_quote Originally Posted by bin direnken

My point for bringing up precocious puberty was to emphasize that even children of four years of age have reached menses.

But the point is erroneous because precocious puberty is a specific condition that Aisha did not have, since she was past the age of nine. You ahve only demonstarted to us that you have no understanding of what you're talking abotu since precocious puberty only applies before the age of eight!!

You were associating females menstrual cycles with puberty and sexual readiness. And this is simply not the case as illustrated by the before mentioned.

As I pointed out before Aisha married the Prophet after the age of nine after the physical changes indicating puberty, one of which was her menses. Can you prove to me that the other changes did not occur? Your argument is the fallacy known as appeal to probability. Your argument can be expressed as follows:

1-it is possible that she did not go through puberty completely at the age of nine and only went through menses
2-therefore she did not go through puberty completely at the age of nine and only went through menses

Quite clearly 1 does not necessitate 2. So as I already demonstrated that it is normal for a girl to go through puberty at the age of nine (as per the medical references) especially in hot climates, then there is no reason to believe that she did not go through puberty.

Sexual activity should only occur after a child has passed all of the 'milestones' of adulthood, and to do so prematurely is child endangerment.

Can you prove to me that Aisha did not pass all the milestones of adulthood? You seem to have a difficult time comprehending the clear quote from the encyclopedia which demonstartes that it is perfectly normal for a girl to go through puberty at the age of nine.

And technically, because of this fact, Aisha was still a child and still socially considered a prepubescent.

Which fact? You've been arguing on the basis of fallacies, biased opinions and remote possibilites all along! Prove to me that Aisha was prepubescent.

If you review the material posted on the fistula webpage, you will see that this condition can occur in teens as well.

Then if fistulas can occur in post-pubescent women as well what does it prove?! Anyone in the world could be alleged to have had a fistula! Provide evidence.

Until a body is ready mature enough to handle all the demands that pregnancy brings, sexual intercourse should be avoided and frowned upon.

Prove that Aisha was not mature enough to handle all the demnads that pregancy brings. I have already provided the references that show that it is perfectly normal for a nine-year old girl to attain puberty. Refute the medical references I have provided.

Peace

Hello bin diorenken,
I gave you a very simple and basic challenge and that was to respond to the two points I gave.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

- it is normal for a girl to achieve puberty anywhere between nine and sixteen years of age (as per the medical references quoted previously)
- Aisha rd consummated her marriage after the age of nine
->therefore there is no reason to believe that Aisha was prepubescent, especially since many of the physical milestones of puberty such as menses, were recorded as happening before consummation of the marriage

Unfortunately, it seems that either you didn't understand the challenge, or you have stubbornly refused to answer it. Again and again I have exposed the fallacious arguments you emplyed, yet you persist in completely ignoring the points made and bringing up more irrelevant issues. And simply feigning knowledge or authority is not going to work either. You need to provide accurate and relevant evidence to support your claims. So the following is not an example of relevant evidence:

format_quote Originally Posted by bin direnken

Vesicovaginal fistulas happen for a reason. They are medically defined as an abnormal passage from an internal organ to the outside body surface and do not spontaneously occur in healthy individuals. Something is required to tear the opening and in this case it's too small of a passage that ruptures the upper reaches of the vagina during childbirth. According to a World Health Organization study conducted over 16 years ago, over two million women were living with obstetric fistulas. And most of these women were living in sub-Saharan Africa where early marriage and child pregnancy are the culprits of shame.

Fistulas have absolutely no relevance here. As I pointed out in my very first post on the issue, what causes a fistula or who gets a fistula has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Aisha was past puberty when she married the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. You need to provide evidence that she had not reached puberty at that age even though medical texts affirm that is perfectly normal for such a thing to occur.

I am failing to understand why this obvious evidence is so elusive to you but I really wish that you would put as much effort into women's studies and the safety of an entire gender as you do into prepubescent sex validation. Try Amnesty International if you would like specifics.

I already demonstrated that Aisha was post-pubescent. Thus, we have another example of a strawman fallacy.

While it is true that menses is the textbook start of puberty, you cannot forget the other facets that have to be considered when speaking of a childs well being. Some young girls have one period and then it stops for a year or so. And others do not have "regular" menstrual cycles for quite a while. There are natural stages in this process such as prepuberty, where sexual development begins and lasts for about two years or so. And then there is postpuberty in which a person is first able to create offspring.

Again you refuse to accept the fact that all medical encyclopedias have classified attaining puberty at the age of nine as NORMAL. Hence, there is no reason for us to believe that Aisha attained puberty any later.

I am offering you a final opportunity - either refute the following or admit your incapability to do so:

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

- it is normal for a girl to achieve puberty anywhere between nine and sixteen years of age (as per the medical references quoted previously)
- Aisha rd consummated her marriage after the age of nine
->therefore there is no reason to believe that Aisha was prepubescent, especially since many of the physical milestones of puberty such as menses, were recorded as happening before consummation of the marriage

No more red-herrings about fistulas, etc. Prove that Aisha could not have been post-pubescent when she consummated her marriage with the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. No more off-topic rants will be tolerated; they will be deleted.

nice one brother. I like the ending to ur post.

Allah ma3ak

as salam alaikum,
sista i totally agree, this was a command from allah subhana watha allah. who are we to question His intelligence? allah is the most knowledgble. That is, knowledge of the past, present and future. asthagirullah indeed!