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Answering Christianty

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    Answering Christianty (OP)


    I dont know if I'm allowed to do this but the following link containis a comparison of Jesus and Muhammad from a Muslim perspective. It is taken from the answering christianity website.
    http://www.answering-christianity.co...d_compared.htm
    Many of you Muslims must be familiar with it.

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    Re: Answering Christianty

    Report bad ads?

    thought you'd get a kick out of your fellow christian's perspective..

    cheers
    The Bible Led Me to Islam

    Abdul Malik LeBlanc tells how he discovered Islam within the pages of Bible

    Source: International Edition Voice of Islam - November 1998, Page 25

    During my Christian days there were many verses in the Bible that made me question the religion I was following (Christianity). There was one particular verse, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 which says; "pray without ceasing," that lingered heavily in my mind. I often wondered how a person (Christian) was supposed to pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing? Without any biblical or divine guidance, the only way I thought this to be possible was to always do good deeds and keep the remembrance of God on my tongue and in my heart.

    However, I found this to be impossible to do as a human being. But when I was introduced to Islam in 1987, and began to read and learn more about this way of life, I found that Islam provided divine guidance both from God (Allah) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by which a person could pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing, if it was the Will of God.

    Whether waking up, eating, sleeping, putting on clothes, being in the presence of a woman, looking at a woman, going shopping, going to the bathroom, looking in the mirror, traveling, visiting the sick, sitting in a non-religious meeting, taking a bath, having sexual intercourse with one’s wife, yawning, cutting you nails, sneezing, greeting people, talking, hosting guests at home, walking, exercising, fighting, entering one’s house, praying and many other acts, Islam and the guidance therein of the Quran, and the acts and sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), provided ways in which I could observe 1 Thessalonians 5:17. In addition, it allowed me to be at peace with myself and in submission to the one True God - Allah (SWT).

    This divine guidance of Islam taught me greatly about my duties, responsibilities and birthright to my Creator (Allah), and more about the religion of Christianity as a Muslim, I [By the Will of Allah (SWT)] felt it necessary to share with you how the Bible led me to Islam.

    Christianity

    Given the fact that there has never been in the history of the Torah (Old Testament) the religion of God to be named after a Prophet (i.e. Adaminity, Abrahamity, Mosanity, etc.), I hope to explain that Jesus did not preach the religion of Christianity, but a religion that gives all Praise and Worship to The One God.

    One of the questions I asked myself as I took an objective (second) look at Christianity was; where did the word Christianity come from and was the word ever mentioned to Jesus? Well, I did not find the word Christianity in the Bible, not even in a Bible dictionary. Specifically, I did not find in the Bible where Jesus called himself a Christian.

    The word Christian was first mentioned by a pagan to describe those who followed Jesus. It is mentioned one of three times in the New Testament by a pagan and Jew in Antioch about 43 AD, (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16) long after Jesus left this earth. To accept the words of pagans as having any value or association with divinity, Jesus or God is contrary to the teachings of all Prophets.

    Jesus prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9).

    "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." This verse, Matthew 15:9, is further supported by these words of the Quran:

    "And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: "Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower o fall that is hidden and unseen.

    Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world)." (Al-Ma’idah 5:116-117)

    I found that Biblical verses like John 5:30, John 12:49, John 14:28, Isaiah 42:8 and Acts 2:22 support the above mentioned verses of the Quran.

    Before leaving the subject of Christianity, I should mention one small point of observation. If Christians are Christ-like, why are they not greeting each other with the words; Peace be with you (Salamu Alaikum), as Jesus did in Luke 24:36. As you may be aware, the greeting from one Muslim to another Muslim is Assalamu Alaikum; a Christ-like saying.

    Various Holy Bibles
    It is worth mentioning that the Bible references cited might not be exactly as the Bible you are using. There are MANY Bibles on the market that are used by different Christian sects and all of these sects say that their book, though different, is the word of God. Such Bibles are: The Revised Standard Version 1952 & 1971, New American Standard Bible, The Holy Bible; New International Version, the Living Bible, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witnesses, Roman Catholic Version and the King James Version. A special note: I have not found in any of these Bibles where the "New Testament" calls itself the "New Testament," and nowhere does the "Old Testament" call itself the "Old? Testament." Also, the word "Bible" is unknown within the pages of the Bible.

    In addition to the many different Christian sects and Bibles, I have learned that there are also different men, not Prophets, who founded these sects and are using various interpretations of the Bible and/or man-made doctrines as their creed.

    I would like to share with you some thoughts that you may not have read or known about the Bible being the word of God. Briefly, let me mention that on September 8, 1957, the Jehovah’s witnesses in their "Awake" magazine carried this startling headline - 50,000 Errors in the Bible. If you ask a Jehovah’s witness about this headline, it may be said that today most of those errors have been eliminated. How many have been eliminated, 5,000? Even if 50 remain, would one attribute those errors to God?

    Let me pose another question: if a "Holy" book contained conflicting verses would you still consider it to be Holy? Most likely you will say of course not. Let me share with you some conflicting verses both in the Old and New Testaments:

    II Samuel 8:4 (vs)
    II Samuel 8:9-10
    II Kings 8:26

    II Samuel 6:23
    Genesis 6:3
    John 5:37

    John 5:31
    I Chronicles 18:4
    I Chronicles 18:9-10

    II Chronicles 22:2
    II Samuel 21:8
    Genesis 9:29

    John 14:9
    John 8:14



    Only two contradictions of the New Testament have been mentioned, but others will be referenced when the Trinity, Divinity of Jesus Christ, Divine Sonship of Jesus, Original Sin and Atonement are reviewed.

    How could the "inspired words" of God get the genealogy of Jesus incorrect (See Matthew 1:6-16 where it states 26 forefathers up to Prophet David, and Luke 3:23-31 says 41 in number). Or for that matter, give a genealogy to Jesus who had NO father? See II Kings 19:1-37, now read Isaiah 37:1-38. Why is it that the words of these verse are identical? Yet they have been attributed to two different authors, one unknown and the other is Isaiah, who are centuries apart; and yet, the Christians have claimed these books to be inspired by God.

    I looked up the word Easter in the Nelson Bible dictionary and learned that the word "Easter" (as mentioned in Acts 12:4) is a mistranslation of "pascha," the ordinary Greek word for "Passover." As, you know Passover is a Jewish celebration not a Christian holiday. I think human hands, all to human, had played havoc with the Bible.

    From the brief points mentioned above, and the fact that Biblical scholars themselves have recognized the human nature and human composition of the Bible (Curt Kuhl, The Old Testament: Its Origin and Composition, PP 47, 51, 52), there should exist in the Christian’s mind some acceptance to the fact that maybe every word of the Bible is not God’s word.

    As a side note to this subject, let me mention that some Christians believe that the Bible was dictated to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by a Christian monk, and that is why some of the biblical accounts are in the Quran. After some research, I found that this could not have happened because there were no Arabic Bible in existence in the 6th century of the Christian era when Muhammad (SAW) lived and preached. Therefore, no Arab, not even Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was absolutely unlettered and unlearned, would have had the opportunity to examine the written text of the Bible in his own language.

    The Gospels

    If you read Luke 1:2-3, you will learn, as I did, that Luke (who was not one of the 12 disciples and never met Jesus) said that he himself was not an eyewitness, and the knowledge he gathered was from eyewitnesses, and not as words inspired by God. Incidentally, why does every "Gospel" begin with the introduction According to. Why "according to?" the reason for this is because not a single one of the gospels carries its original author’s autograph! Even the internal evidence of Matthew 9:9 proves that Matthew was not the author of the first Gospel which bears his name:

    "And as Jesus passed forth thence, He (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and He (Jesus) saith unto Him (Matthew), follow me (Jesus). And he (Matthew) arose, and followed Him (Jesus)."

    Without any stretch of the imagination, one can see that the He’s and the Him’s of the above narration do not refer to Jesus or Matthew as its author, but a third person writing what he saw or heard - a hearsay account and not words inspired by God.

    It is worth noting, and well known throughout the religious world, that the choice of the present four "gospels" of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were imposed in the Council of Nicea 325 CE for political purposes under the auspices of the pagan Emperor Constantine, and not by Jesus. Constantine’s mind had not been enlightened either by study or by inspiration. He was a pagan, a tyrant and criminal who murdered his son, his wife and thousands of innocent individuals because of his lust for political power. Constantine ratified other decisions in the Nicene Creed such as the decision to call Christ "the Son of God, only begotten of the father."

    Literally, hundreds of gospels and religious writings were hidden from the people. Some of those writings were written by Jesus’ disciples, and many of them were eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ actions. The Nicea Council decided to destroy all gospels written in Hebrew, which resulted in the burning of nearly three hundred accounts. If these writings were not more authentic than the four present gospels, they were of equal authenticity. Some of them are still available such as the Gospel of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas which agree with the Quran. The Gospel of Barnabas, until now, is the only eyewitness account of the life and mission of Jesus. Even today, the whole of the Protestant word, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and other sects and denominations condemn the Roman Catholic version of the Bible because it contains seven "extra" books. The Protestant have bravely expunged seven whole books from their word of God. A few of the outcasts are the Books of Judith, Tobnias, Baruch and Esther.

    Concerning Jesus’ teachings of the Gospel (Injeel), the Gospel writers frequently mentioned Jesus preaching the Gospel: Matthew 9:35, Mark 8:35, and Luke 20:1. The word "gospel" is recurrently used in the Bible. However, in the New Testament Greek edition the word Evangeline is used in place of the word gospel, which is translated to mean good news. My question was: what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus, and only of the 27 books are known to be attributed as the Gospel of Jesus. The remaining 23 were supposedly written by Paul. Muslims do believe that Jesus was given God’s "Good News." However, they do not recognized the present four Gospels as the utterances of Jesus.

    The earliest Gospel is that of Mark’s which was written about 60-75 AD. Mark was the son of Barnabas’s sister. Matthew was a tax collector, a minor official who did not travel around with Jesus. Luke’s Gospel was written much later, and in fact, drawn from the same sources as Mark’s and Matthew’s. Luke was Paul’s physician, and like Paul, never met Jesus. By the way, did you know that the names Marks and Luke were not included in the 12 appointed disciples of Jesus as mentioned in Matthew 10:2-4?

    Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; the first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

    John’s Gospel is from a different source, and was written in about 100 AD. He (John) should not be confused with John, the disciple, who was beheaded by Agrippa I in the year 44 CE long before this gospel was written. It should be accepted as a reliable account of the life of Jesus, and whether it should be included in the scriptures.

    Christians, as I once did, boast about the Gospels according to Matthew, according to Mark, according to Luke and according to John. However, if we think about it, there is not a single Gospel according to Jesus himself. According to the preface of the KJV (King James Version) new open Bible study edition, the word "Gospel" was added (see below) to the original titles, "According to John, according to Matthew, according to Luke and according to Mark."

    The permission to call "According to" writings the Gospel was not given by Jesus nor by any other divine guidance. These writings; Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, were never originally to be the Gospel. Therefore, Mark 1:1 can not be a true statement that his writing is the gospel of Jesus.

    It should be mentioned that Muslims must believe in all Divine scriptures in their original form, their Prophets and making no distinction between them: The Suhuf (Abraham); Torah (Moses); Psalms (David); Gospel - or the Injeel (Jesus); and the Quran (Muhammad). It is clearly stated in the Quran 3:3 that Allah sent down the Torah and the Gospel. However, none of these scriptures remains in its original form now, except the Quran, which was sent for all mankind everywhere and for all times.

    In addition to other reasons why the Quran was sent to mankind, as mentioned in 18:4-5 it was sent to warn the Christians of a terrible punishment from God if they cease not in saying: "Allah has begotten a son."

    Muslims sincerely believe that everything Jesus (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) preached was from God; the Gospel (Injeel): The "good news" and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel. There is no place mentioned in the present four Gospels that Jesus wrote a single word of his Gospel, nor is it mentioned that Jesus instructed anyone to do so. What passes off, as the "Gospels" today are the works of third party human hands. The Quran 2:79 says:
    "And woe to those who write the book with their own hands and they say: "This is from Allah (God)." To traffic with it for a miserable price! So woe to them for what their hands do write, and woe to them for what they earn thereby!"

    Jesus As the Son of God
    Is Jesus the Son of God? Matthew 3:17 could be used by some Christians to support the divine Sonship of Jesus. If Matthew 3:17, "And Lo a voice for heaven, saying, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased," is used to support divine Sonship, then there should be no other verse that contradicts or gives equal divine Sonship to another person or persons in the Old or New Testament. However, many references were found in the Old and New Testaments that mentioned someone other than Jesus as having a divine Sonship to God. See Exodus 4:22:

    "Israel is my son, even my firstborn." II Samuel 7:14 and I Chronicles 22:10: "...and he shall be my son (Solomon)." Jeremiah 31:9: "...and Ephraim is my firstborn." Also, Psalm 2:7.

    The word "Son" must not be accepted literally because God addresses many of his chosen servants as son and sons. The Jews have also claimed Ezra to be the Son of God. The New Testament Greek words used for "son" (pias and paida, which mean servant or son in the sense of servant) are translated as son in reference to Jesus and as servant in reference to others in some translations of the Bible.

    Further, the term "Father" as used by Jesus corresponds more closely to the term Rabb, i.e. One who nourishes and sustains, so that in Jesus’ doctrine, God is "Father" – Nourisher and Sustainer – of all men. The New Testament also interprets "son of God" to be mystical: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14). This mystical suggestion is further supported with Jesus being called the only begotten Son of God.

    In Psalm 2:7, the Lord said to David:

    "...Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee."

    Does this mean that God had two sons? Jesus also said that God is not only his Father but also your Father (Matthew 5:45, 48). Luke 3:38 says:

    "...Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God."

    Who is mentioned in Hebrews 7:3 as like unto the Son of God? It is Melchisedec, King of Salem, as mentioned in Hebrews 7:1. He (Melchisedec) is more unique than Jesus or Adam. Why is he not preferred to be the Son of God? Moreover, Adam did not have a mother or father, but was the first human being created by God and in the likeness of God to exist in the Garden of Eden and on earth. Wouldn’t this give more rights to Adam to be called the Son of God in its truest meaning?

    I would like to share with you an obvious contradiction between John 3:16, Luke 10:25-28 and Matthew 19:16-17. John 3:16 reads:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten, Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Now let’s read Luke 10:25-28:

    And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest Thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and Thou shalt live.

    These verses tell us that the inheritance of eternal life is for anyone who believes and worships no other God, but the One True God. Luke 10:25-28 agrees with Matthew 19:16-17 which says;

    "And behold, one came and said to him (Jesus), Good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? So he (Jesus) said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? – No one is good but One that is, God. But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments."

    There is no commandment that says to worship Jesus, but there that tells us to worship God alone.

    In Luke 4:41, Jesus refused to be called the Son of God by demons. Do you think that Jesus would rebuke the demons, or anyone else for that matter, for telling the truth? Unquestionably, no! Jesus rebuked the demons because they were saying something false by calling him the Son of God. Also, if the demons knew that Jesus was the Christ, for Jesus to shut them up because they called him the Christ is a contradiction to Jesus’ mission.

    In Luke 9:20 & 21, Jesus said unto his disciples:

    "But who say ye that I am? Peter answered saying, "The Christ of God, and Jesus straightly charged them and commanded them to tell no man that thing."

    Furthermore, verses like John 3:2, John 6:14, John 7:40, Matthew 21:11, Luke 7:16 and 24:19 confirm that Jesus accepted the title of teacher, Prophet and called himself the son of man in Matthew 8:20, 12:40, 17:9 & 12, 26:24, Luke 9:26, 22:48, 22:69, and 24:7. The most conclusive verse that says Jesus is the son (servant) of man is Mark 14:26 where Jesus is mentioning the Day of Reckoning. Jesus specifically said we would see the son of man, not the Son of God, sitting in the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    The act of begetting is a physical act and such act is against God’s nature. The Qur’an 19:35 says:


    "It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is." (Maryam 19:35)

    The teachings of Jesus as the Son of God were not preached by Jesus nor accepted by Jesus, but were taught by Paul as supported in Acts 9:20:

    "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."

    Did Jesus ever claim to be God or say, "Here am I, your God, worship me"? The answer is no. For there is no single, unequivocal statement in the Bible whereby Jesus himself declares, "I am God, therefore worship me." Virtually all of the more than two thousand verses of the epistles of Paul are his own fabrications to include Romans 9:5 that says, depending upon which Bible you read:

    "...Christ came, who is overall, the eternally blessed God."

    Christians should know that Paul himself mentions his own gospel, not Jesus, in his epistle to the Romans when he says in Romans 2:16:

    "In the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."

    In face, the Pauline epistle to the Romans serves as the foundation of today’s Christianity. Thus, it is the Christians whose efforts will be wasted in this life as they think they were acquiring good by their works when they attribute partners to God, as stated in Chapter 18:103-106 of the Qur’an:


    "Say: Shall we tell you of those who lost most in respect of their deeds? Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?" they are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of judgment, give them any weight. That is their reward, Hell; because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
    (Al-Kahf 18:103-106)

    Indeed, it is so strange and ironic, knowing that none of Paul’s epistle to the Romans, more than 430 verses, were ever formulated by Jesus. Paul should have made direct reference to the pristine teachings of Jesus, if only the former claim for apostleship by divine inspiration was indeed true. Instead, large parts of his epistles’ Biblical quotations (notably those in the Epistle to the Romans) were taken from the Old Testament – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Hosea. His epistles were, indeed a product of tedious efforts, but that does not make Paul far better than any of the other men who authored the Bible, nor does it make him a Prophet.

    Other practices that were adopted under Paul included the following: the Roman sun-day as the Christian Sabbath; the traditional birthday of the Sun-god as the birthday of Jesus; the emblem of the sun-god (the cross of light) to be the emblem of Christians; and, the incorporation of all the ceremonies which were performed at the Sun-god’s birthday celebrations.

    As I come to a close concerning the position of Christ, I would like to ask my Christian reader bow down and pray earnestly to God and ask Him to invoke His curse on you, your wife, your sons, and your daughters if what you believe about Christ (Christ is God, Son of God or part of a trinity of God) are false. Likewise, I have learned that if you asked a Muslim to earnestly pray to God to invoke His curse on him, his wife, his sons, and his daughters if what he is saying about Christ (Prophet, Messenger of God, A Word from God) are false, the Muslims are firm in their faith knowing that Christ is not God, nor the Son of God and nor part of a trinity of God. This exercise of asking God to invoke His curse on you and your family may sound a bit cruel, but it would prove two points: (1) you would know that you are on the wrong path; and, (2) it would put you on the right path.

    The Crucifixion and Atonement
    A very significant event in the Christian doctrine is the Crucifixion of Jesus. Before talking about the many controversies surrounding the Crucifixion, it should be mentioned that it was a gospel of Paul’s which professed the Crucifixion/Resurrection of Jesus (II Timothy 2:8):

    "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

    In addition, the gospel of the resurrection in Mark 16:9-20 was already removed from the text by gospel writers in the 1952 edition of the Revised Standard Version and then, for some reasons, restored in the 1971 edition. In many Bibles, if not removed, it is printed in small print or between two brackets and with commentary (See the Revised Standard Version, New American Bible and New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures).

    The traditional biblical account of Jesus’ Crucifixion is that he was arrested and crucified by the orders and plans of the chief priest and Jewish elders. This account was denied in the 1960’s by the highest Catholic Christian authority, the Pope. He issued a statement in which he said the Jews had nothing to do with Jesus’ Crucifixion.

    Did any one of the disciples or the writers of the Gospel see the Crucifixion or the Resurrection? No! In Mark 14:50, it says the disciples forsook Jesus and fled. Even Peter forsook Jesus after the cock crowed three times as Jesus foretold:

    (Matthew 26:75) And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

    The most likely persons whom may have witnessed this moment in Jesus’ life were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, the mother of Zebedee’s children and other women (Matthew 27:55-56). However, there is no statement or account in the Gospels from those women as to what they saw or heard.

    The disciple(s) found the sepulchre where Jesus was laid down, empty, and made the conclusion that he was resurrected because the disciples and other witnesses saw him alive after the alleged Crucifixion. Nobody saw the moment he was resurrected. Jesus himself stated that he did not die on the cross in Luke 24:36-41, as explained in the following paragraphs.

    Early Sunday morning, Mary Magdalene went to the sepulchre, which was empty. She saw somebody standing who looked like a gardener. She recognized him after a conversation to be Jesus and wanted to touch him. Jesus said (John 20:17):

    "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father..."

    Now read Luke 24:36-41:

    "And as they (disciples) thus spoke, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are you troubled? And why so thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me end see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of boiled fish and of a honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."

    Does a spiritual or dead body have a need to eat food? Jesus eating of food was to prove to the disciples that he was not a spirit, but rather, he was still alive and not dead.

    Jesus being alive and not dead is further supported in his own prophecy (Matthew 12:40):

    "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

    Did Jesus fulfill this miracle? Christians would say "yes," because Jesus died and rose three days later according to Luke 24:36 and Matthew 20:19, to name a few verses. However, in line with the miracle of Jonah and according to the Bible, Jesus only spent one day and two nights in the sepulchre, and not three days and three nights as he prophesied.

    Jesus was put in the sepulchre just before sunset on Friday (Good Friday) and was found missing before sunrise on Sunday (Easter). If we were to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the time frame a bit, one may say that Jesus spent three days in the earth, but there is no way and I repeat, no way, that Jesus spent three nights in the earth. We must not forget that the Gospels are explicit in telling us that it was "before sunrise" on Sunday morning that Mary Magdalene went to the tomb of Jesus and found it empty.

    Consequently, there are some inconsistencies as to whether Jesus fulfilled his own prophecy. Whether he was actually crucified, or if the day (Good Friday) of his alleged Crucifixion is wrong. Another significant point to mention is that Jonah was alive in the belly of the whale. The Christians says, Jesus was dead in the belly of the earth/tomb, and this contradicts Jesus’ own prophecy. Jesus said (Luke 11:30):

    "As Jonah was...so shall the Son of man be."

    If Jonah was alive, so was Jesus.

    One critical event that took place before the alleged Crucifixion was the prayer of Jesus to God for help. Luke 22:42:

    "Saying Father if thou be willing, remove this cup (of death) from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done."

    Jesus’ prayer not to die on the cross was accepted by God according to Luke 22:43 and Hebrews 5:7. Therefore, if all of Jesus’ prayer were accepted by God, including not to die on the cross, how could he have died on the cross?

    In Matthew 27:46, it states that while Jesus was on the cross, he said:

    "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani (My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?).

    If Jesus said these words, it represents a blatant declaration of disbelief according to all theological authorities. This is a great insult as such words could only come from an unbeliever in God. Further, it is incredible that such words should come from a Prophet of God, because God never breaks His promise and His Prophets never complained against His promise, especially when the Prophet’s mission is understood. It could be said that whoever relates that this statement was said by a Prophet (Jesus), is a disbeliever.

    Muslims believe, as the Qur’an states, Jesus was not crucified. It was the intention of his enemies to put him to death on the cross, but Allah saved him from their plot. Qur’an 4:157:

    "That they (Jews) said boasting, "We killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, but they (Jews) killed him not, nor crucified him..."

    (An Nisa 4:157)
    Answering Christianty

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    Re: Answering Christianty

    I'm sorry to say. I have listened to most of those arguments before. I believe that I can give you an answer to every one of those arguments. So you still havent convinced me yet. If incase you didnt know I believee in the version that contains the whole Hebrew Bible and the 27 canonised books of the NT. Altogether 66 books by 40 different authors. It doesnt take Intelllect to know who God is. But Spiritual Wisdom which supercedes man's wisdom.
    Last edited by john316; 01-26-2008 at 03:53 AM.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    I'm sorry to say. I have listened to most of those arguments before.
    Why does that merit a sorry?

    I believe that I can give you an answer to every one of those arguments. So you still havent convinced me yet.
    I don't/won't care for excuses or plastered compositions.. further I have no interest in convincing you of anything. I'd like to believe you are here on your own discretion and not at gun point?!

    If incase you didnt know I believee in the version that contains the whole Hebrew Bible and the 27 canonised books of the NT. Altogether 66 books by 40 different authors.
    This concerns me how?

    It doesnt take Intelllect to know who God is. But Spiritual Wisdom which supercedes man's wisdom.
    I couldn't agree more.....

    cheers
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    well I am just here to share my beliefs in what I believe to be true. First and foremost you have to consider the whole Bible and not just bits and pieces of it. Not that I know the whole thing and knowing the whole thing aint critical to my salvation. The day I made Jesus my Lord and Savior, I believe the wisdom was implanted within me. Well I am going to use the Bible itself. the 66 books to show you what I believe. and not any outside source like the Quran or other apocryphal books .
    Well it's a big post so please give me some time to analyse them. Well my point is not to show you that the Bible is God's word but only to show that it's more trustworthy.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    well I am just here to share my beliefs in what I believe to be true.
    ok.. I believe the operative word here is what 'you believe', others don't share your views, I'd think you'd be most concerned with the Jews, I mean they have totally missed the boat!

    First and foremost you have to consider the whole Bible and not just bits and pieces of it.
    The bible is nonsensical to me.. parts of it are nice, but sometimes it reads like a porn novel, the other time it is discrepant, and God appears very confused in it!

    Not that I know the whole thing and knowing the whole thing aint critical to my salvation.
    I'd worry about your salavtion then and focus on that before I extend myself to others and telling them their beliefs are false!


    The day I made Jesus my Lord and Savior, I believe the wisdom was implanted within me.
    Yup... our dear member Alapiana http://www.islamicboard.com/members/...na1-11724.html
    shared your widom for many many pages.. trust me, nothing you'll chuck here will be earth shattering, we've read/seen it all before!

    Well I am going to use the Bible itself. the 66 books to show you what I believe. and not any outside source like the Quran or other apocryphal books .
    as sweet as that is, no one is interested, many here are reverts, many others attended parochial schools, attended theology courses.. people are what they are after hard work and reflection and critical analysis, not because you 'believe' you have found wisdom...


    Well it's a big post so please give me some time to analyse them. Well my point is not to show you that the Bible is God's word but only to show that it's more trustworthy.
    More trust worthy than what? Do you honestly think after reading the Quran, someone would go back to the bible? Again I pose the question, would you go follow the Torah now that you have your bible? think deep and hard about that.. to be frank, Judasim is more in concert with a religion than Christianity, which is in its entirety grossly irreverent to all that should be held sacred. From the rituals to the idolatry to the preservation and application of it nonsensical.... but I do wish you peace and contentment on the path of your choice.......
    cheers
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    I dont know if I'm allowed to do this but the following link containis a comparison of Jesus and Muhammad from a Muslim perspective. It is taken from the answering christianity website.
    http://www.answering-christianity.co...d_compared.htm
    Many of you Muslims must be familiar with it.
    Probably most of us are familiar of that site. But, I doubt if many use it for much more than idle curiosity. Personally, I believe it is in poor taste and it is an error for people of one religion to think that by proving somebody wrong means they are right by default.

    Also the reality of life is, it is impossible to proof anything is wrong. the burden is to prove what is true.

    I believe you are going to be a litle surprised at just how familiar most of us are with the Bible. I'm familiar with it in more then one language and do have several Bibles in the house. I have read and studied it more than just several times and at one time truly believed it was the word of God(swt). At one time I believed Jesus(as) was my savior and that it was only through him could I reach the Father.

    In many ways I do credit Jesus(as) to having led me to the Qur'an and to God(swt). I have been reborn into the truth and have been set free from what once led me astray.
    Last edited by Woodrow; 01-26-2008 at 05:24 AM.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    I am a Chrsitian so what do you expect me to believe.

    And I dont understand why the scholars of Islam like Deedat, Dr Naik oick verses from the Bible and claim it;s not authoratative. Jesus said you are either hot or you are not. Being lukewarm doesnt even qualify us to be his diciple. So if the Bible is made up you either believe it or you dont. Some of the arguments from Deedat also takes verses out of context so it apparently looses it's meaning. The Bible is to be considered as a whole.
    We Muslims believe in scriptures given to previous Prophets, BUT we also believe that those scriptures have NOT been protected in perfect form & there have been Omissions/Addisions/Alterations.

    So we cross-check bible(OT, NT) with Quran & Hadiees.

    If anything goes against Quran & Hadees, we take it as human alteration that made it's way into scriptures.


    So Deedat & Zakir Naik refer to what goes with Quran & point out human alterations by giving proof from bible itself.
    Last edited by sur; 01-26-2008 at 07:27 AM.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    I will answer Christianity in a few words: Jewish concoction. A religion fused in the mind of corrupt Jews with the intent and purpose of destroying civilization. For further reference, check out an article written by Savitri Devi on this subject.
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    Post Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by syed saboor View Post
    I will answer Christianity in a few words: Jewish concoction. A religion fused in the mind of corrupt Jews with the intent and purpose of destroying civilization. For further reference, check out an article written by Savitri Devi on this subject.

    Oh, those evil Jews, always spoiling everything and trying to ruin things even when they have no benefit from doing so...

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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    you can lokk back to the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. they match exactly the same as the old testament. the new testament has around 24000 old manuscripts. It doesnt contradict itself in any way only in minute details. where men wrote from different perpectives. But you have 40 different authors having the same testimony of Jesus Christ. All the 40 author validate each other.


    The Quran has just one author.

    Why would God give us just one man's testimony. the Qur'an is NOT "one man's testimony", it is the revealed word of the LORD God Almighty! so it has the BEST author, the Author of Life itself!


    Muhammad contradicted every prophet. see below
    Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

    here's a little excerpt of a previous post:

    the VAST MAJORITY of Prophets that we have knowledge of ALL descendants of Abraham, Alaihe Salaam, and are now generally[though not always correctly] called Jews. so if we want to determine what "their" message was, Jewish sources would be pretty reliable. here's a snippet from Rabbi Nosson Scherman in his "An Overview/ Ezra - Molder of a New Era" which serves as an introduction to The Book Ezra / A New Translation With A Commentary Anthologized From Talmudic, Midrashic And Rabbinic Sources with Translation and Commentary by Rabbi Yosef Rabinowitz:

    The First Temple and the Jewish nation - both the Ten Tribes of Samaria and the Kingdom of Judah - had crumbled spiritually because of the sin of idolatry. ALL THE PROPHETS FROM MOSES ONWARD HAD WARNED ELOQUENTLY AND STRENUOUSLY ABOUT THE PITFALLS OF THIS CARDINAL SIN. Nevertheless, Israel succumbed, with the result that it was banished from it land and nearly destroyed as a people.
    ...why should there have been such an obsessive passion for [idolatry] that even the Prophets were ignored and murdered in the people's headlong passion to choose strange gods and pagan ceremonies over the ONE GOD and His Torah?
    (emphasis mine)


    so, the Prophets came to "RE-ESTABLISH THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD AND THE OBEYANCE OF HIS LAW"; which is EXACTLY what Islam is!! AND this message is for ALL TIMES!! which by the way is ne single proof of existence of islam before Muhammed's times."

    to recap: ALL THE PROPHETS FROM MOSES ONWARD HAD WARNED ELOQUENTLY AND STRENUOUSLY ABOUT THE PITFALLS OF [IDOLATRY] thus the Prophets came to "RE-ESTABLISH THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD AND THE OBEYANCE OF HIS LAW"; which is EXACTLY what Islam is!!

    now, YOU WROTE:

    Well I am going to use the Bible itself. the 66 books to show you what I believe
    So i ask, show me which of the Prophets in the Tanakh came to Israel and said, "I am God, worship me!" Take your time and look. We'll wait...

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    Re: Answering Christianty

    you can lokk back to the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. they match exactly the same as the old testament. the new testament has around 24000 old manuscripts. It doesnt contradict itself in any way only in minute details. where men wrote from different perpectives. But you have 40 different authors having the same testimony of Jesus Christ. All the 40 author validate each other
    You have to remember that no original manuscripts exist. There is probably not one book that reads anything like its original. You mention the Dead Sea Scrolls and the oldest manuscripts, but you neglect to mention there are hundreds of differences between the oldest manuscripts of any one book, as well as no 2 "oldest manuscripts" are exactly alike. These differences make it obvious that numerous additions and alterations, were made to the originals by different authors, editors, translators and copyists. In some cases this was due to error but in some it was intentional.

    Most biblical authors are unknown. The names were chosen by religious men of the time and not by the author. The four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are perfect examples of this. These names were given long after these four books were written. Biblical scholars are now almost unanimously agreed that none of these authors was a disciple of Jesus nor even an eyewitness to his teachings.

    How can you claim all 40 authors validate each other, when they clearly do not. Paul's writings are completely different, and in some cases, completely opposite, to the ministry of Jesus. There are errors you claim are minute and is due to different perceptions. Have you ever asked yourself what would happen if Paul's perception was the one that differed? Considering a lot of his writings are completely different and stand alone...your entire salvation is also in question.

    John, even your nic is in question. John 3:16, as it is written in the KJV and NJKV is not how it was written in the oldest known manuscripts and has been corrected in almost all modern versions of the Bible.

    Take the blinders off, John, and learn with an open mind. Don't blindly follow. It doesn't mean you will lose your faith or even change it...but at the very least it will give you a better understanding of exactly what it is you are following.

    As a former Christian, I know it's not an easy task and I remember how difficult it was. I was angry, very angry but because of my desire for truth, I studied the scripture and it led me directly to Islam. I questioned scripture since I was a little kid, but no one could or would answer and many times I would get in trouble for asking because "my faith wasn't strong enough". Strangely my faith was VERY strong, I was simply looking for clarification to have a better understanding. Much later I started reading about this "Islam" and within 5 minutes I was shocked to realize this was what I had always believed! Did I immediately revert? Absolutely not. It took about 3 more years of study and trying desperately to hold on to the faith I grew up with, the faith I dedicated a large portion of my life to. But, Alhamdulillah, in the end, I was guided to the truth of Islam.

    So, be open enough to take a closer look and human enough to admit when you don't know or understand why something is the way it is.

    We are not God to know everything, but He gave us the mind and the ability to use logic...use it.

    As a side note Deedat and Naik only claim the way the bible is TODAY is not authoritative, but in its original form is the truth. Some of that truth still remains in pages of the Bible which is why Muslims are suppose to respect it. Of course, the determination of where it is accurate is in the places where it agrees with the Qur'an.

    With peace,
    Hana
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    Can I ask any one of you why you were Christians? First of all I do not expect people to think exactly the way I do. And I do not believe in any organised religion as such. but a relationship with God. as most Christians may believe. I do not believe God is weak enough to get his word distorted by men. And idolatory is has a whole different meaning.

    to be continued...........
    Last edited by john316; 01-26-2008 at 06:48 PM.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by syed saboor View Post
    I will answer Christianity in a few words: Jewish concoction. A religion fused in the mind of corrupt Jews with the intent and purpose of destroying civilization. For further reference, check out an article written by Savitri Devi on this subject.
    what a brilliant and insightful post! thank you for enlightening me!
    i guess that explains why christians spent so much of their time and energy slaughtering jews century after century.
    and here i thought christianity was foreign to the semitic world!
    only on islamicboard....
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by john316 View Post
    no i am just curious so i dont think it is a reliable source then. in knowing abt Islam. glad to hear that. I dont think you claim all of it to be true. But one thing I dont understand is why would you try to demonize Jesus in this site saying that he is a child killer. Wasnt he a pious man according to Islam
    I would like to return to this point John is making.

    The website he has posted a link to seems to compare Muhammed's bahaviour with Jesus' - thereby indeed seeming to demonise Jesus as a man who did not care for his fellow man, did not respect Gentiles, promoted the killing of children ... oh:

    Surely this is not how Islam sees Jesus??!
    I always thought he was seen as a highly respected and revered prophet in Islam.
    Why would an Islamic refutation site present him in such a way?
    I find it quite upsetting ...

    Peace
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    I would like to return to this point John is making.

    The website he has posted a link to seems to compare Muhammed's bahaviour with Jesus' - thereby indeed seeming to demonise Jesus as a man who did not care for his fellow man, did not respect Gentiles, promoted the killing of children ... oh:

    Surely this is not how Islam sees Jesus??!
    I always thought he was seen as a highly respected and revered prophet in Islam.
    Why would an Islamic refutation site present him in such a way?
    I find it quite upsetting ...

    Peace
    Why would an Islamic refutation site present him in such a way?
    Because first and for most it is a hate sight.
    It is just the flip side of Answering Islam.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    I would like to return to this point John is making.

    The website he has posted a link to seems to compare Muhammed's bahaviour with Jesus' - thereby indeed seeming to demonise Jesus as a man who did not care for his fellow man, did not respect Gentiles, promoted the killing of children ... oh:

    Surely this is not how Islam sees Jesus??!
    I always thought he was seen as a highly respected and revered prophet in Islam.
    Why would an Islamic refutation site present him in such a way?
    I find it quite upsetting ...

    Peace

    I believe the site is simply quoting from the bible, the way the same counter site does against Islam..
    I mean that is how both make their points correct?
    they take excerpts that are '****ing' and augment them for all to see..

    peace
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    Well to set the record straight
    I am no respector of persons. Promoting hate sites and forcing beliefs is unbiblical. Christianity was never a religion to begin with. There were Jews who were still Jews and accepted Jesus Chrsit as Lord and Savior. There are Muslims who accpet Jesus as Lord and Savior. I respect the Islamic way of life. in only certain aspects where it agrees with the Bible. I dont believe every muslim is like Osama bin ladin. I believe there are some sincere muslims whom I really want to talk to. But I believe in relationship with my creator, redeemer, and comforter and I want to glorify Him in the best way I can. I am not here to may fun of Muslims or insult. As far as my belief goes, without Christ I am worthy of insult. I dont take pride in what I believe. I like people who are humble. And I want to talk to the humble muslims and share my beliefs with them.
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    I believe the site is simply quoting from the bible, the way the same counter site does against Islam..
    I mean that is how both make their points correct?
    they take excerpts that are '****ing' and augment them for all to see..

    peace
    As I mentioned in a previous post, possibly in another thread, I don't visit such refutation sites - neither those against Islam nor those against Christianity.
    On this occasion, however, I followed the link John gave, because I was intrigued as to why any Islamic site would want to present their prophet Isa (PBUH) in such a negative light.

    As you say, the quotes given from the Bible to support the argument, are completely out of context and say nothing of the sort, as suggested by the article ...
    And yes, I take your point that the sited against Islam probably use the very same tactics.
    All the more reason to stay clear of such sites.

    On a more personal note, how do you feel as a Muslim, to see Jesus described in such a way?

    Peace, sister.
    Answering Christianty

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    glo's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    Why would an Islamic refutation site present him in such a way?
    Because first and for most it is a hate sight.
    It is just the flip side of Answering Islam.
    My point is that the people who run 'Answering Christianity' may very well hate the Christian faith. They may even hate Christians.
    But they should not hate Jesus! Being Muslims, how can they?? oh:
    Answering Christianty

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    جوري's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Answering Christianty

    format_quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    As I mentioned in a previous post, possibly in another thread, I don't visit such refutation sites - neither those against Islam nor those against Christianity.
    On this occasion, however, I followed the link John gave, because I was intrigued as to why any Islamic site would want to present their prophet Isa (PBUH) in such a negative light.

    As you say, the quotes given from the Bible to support the argument, are completely out of context and say nothing of the sort, as suggested by the article ...
    And yes, I take your point that the sited against Islam probably use the very same tactics.
    All the more reason to stay clear of such sites.

    On a more personal note, how do you feel as a Muslim, to see Jesus described in such a way?

    Peace, sister.
    this is how the bible describes Jesus not the Quran or the hadiths.. the folks of the site can only work with what is available from biblical literature.. and agreed out of context-- isn't that exactly what they do with Quran and hadith? I am grateful someone answers back because frankly I am so sick of the church's antics for centuries and the people who commission such sites, it is only befitting they get a taste of their medicine.. and pls glo don't quote me some biblical passage about 'love thy neighbor' frankly the fact that such sites exist is a testament to the hypocrisy preached by christians, who are indeed anything but loving.. it isn't enough to have it written down.. perhaps they should practice what they preach?
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