First of all, I’d like to state that Almighty Allah chose Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) even though he had grown up as an orphan and was totally illiterate. All good qualities and virtues reached ultimate perfection and were firmly established in him, which no one else can attain except the prophets whom Allah has protected and guided. This combination of perfect qualities is one of the greatest proofs of the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings be upon him). He acquired his knowledge direct from Allah. He was not taught by any human being, but he was the "City of Knowledge".
Almighty Allah says: (And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.) (Al-`Ankabut 29: 48) He also says: (Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them …) (Al-A`raf 7: 157)
Why is that?
Quran is not that long of a book and it doesn't seem to be hard to remember, there's a topic about a guy who needed two months or so. How long did it take for the entire Quran to be revealed?
I'm sure you're gonna say, there's miracles in the Quran.... the only thing I perceive as "miracles" are the numerical oddities, which given the amount of time Muhammad had for the creation of the Quran and obvious intelligence he possessed, can't have been that hard to incorporate in a book, regardless of his (il)literracy. The human mind is an extraordinary thing.
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
there are 114 chapters 6236 verses in the Quran whilst there are 260 chapters 7958 verses in the NT... go ahead and confirm that for yourself... So I fail to see why it should take years to read the NT whereas the Quran or the OT can be covered in a shorter span of time say a (month)?... it is also one thing to read the book and a whole other thing to discern and understand what you are reading...
I can cover Marker a 672 page book by Robin Cook in as much time as it took me to board from London Heathrow to New York JFK, and it will be satisfactory read--whereas a comparable book in thickness--like Wheater's Functional Histology (413 pages) slightly less page wise ( would take me 3 months to read-- & a life time's experience to implement and become familiar with its contents as relates to my every day needs-- and maybe even supplement it with Robbins Review of Pathology) for the whole picture to be adequate!
that is from another post of mine
Now, I have nine volumes right here in my library of bukhari and Muslim.. they are the sayings of the prophet (could possibly be compared to the bible) writing wise.. until you can reconcile the difference in style/language/content/poetry of the Quran with that of hadith, it will remain the last and only existing 'miracle' to modern day!...
peace
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Honest question: How was Muhammad (pbuh) able to conduct trading and business transactions being illiterate? Anyone know specifically how he or arabs in general did business back then? Were they done verbally? Thanks.
Last edited by NYCmuslim; 02-01-2008 at 12:11 AM.
Allah never changes a Blessing that He has bestowed upon a nation until they first change themselves. And, certainly, God it is Who is Hearer, Knower. -The Holy Quran 8:53
----------------------------------------------
Serve Allah by serving humanity.
Honest question: How was Muhammad (pbuh) able to conduct trading and business transactions being illiterate? Anyone know specifically how he or arabs in general did business back then? Were they done verbally? Thanks.
i don't know the answer to your specific question - altho i think you could learn how to write numbers and still be illiterate.
the vast majority of people were illiterate - but they had a rich oral culture, including poetry - and they had it all in their memory!
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
you can't have oral transactions?
I have seen many illitrate women, who could still go to the market place and do shopping, and tell numbers and distinguish between currencies by look.. can you tell the difference between a nickle and a dime without reading the numbers on them?
people possess the ability for visual object recognition.. people who fail to recognize objects have various types of agnosia, they have damage to the temporal/parietal/occipital lobes in part or in whole.. we have object recognition on many levels (Visual/apperceptive/associative/integrative/category specific) the majority don't require that you be literate for the process..
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I think unlearned is more disrespectful than illiterate
i disagree. there is nothing negative about being illiterate - it just means you don't know how to read. you can be learned and illiterate at the same time. there were illiterate people who had a rich body of "literature" - all shared orally and stored in their memory.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
that is from another post of mine
Now, I have nine volumes right here in my library of bukhari and Muslim.. they are the sayings of the prophet (could possibly be compared to the bible) writing wise.. until you can reconcile the difference in style/language/content/poetry of the Quran with that of hadith, it will remain the last and only existing 'miracle' to modern day!...
peace
Is Muhammad's style the same in all collections of hadiths?
Is Muhammad's style the same in all collections of hadiths?
And of course, how are the styles (Quran : ahdiths) different?
Do you think it is unuasual for someone to use different sytles in creating a work of literature and common communication?
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 02-01-2008 at 01:46 PM.
And of course, how are the styles different?
Do you think it is unuasual for someone to use different sytles in creating a work of literature and common communication?
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
first of all, i believe the word we are all trying to remember is unlettered!
with that out of the way, i wanted to address Whatsthepoint. while not directly answering that quote above, check out this if you have the wherewithall:
Mufti Ismail Menk does a Tafseer after Taraweh every year and it is sent out live to 120 countries and is recorded as well. Mufti Menk's Tafseer that year was on Asbab un Nazool, or Reasons of Revelation. the 23 years of revelation are covered and Mufti Menk is SPECTACULAR in these lectures. one of the things you will note and Menk points out as well is that there is a DIFFERENCE between Qur'an and Hadeeth! you can HEAR IT! as unlettered as the Prophet, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam was, his speech was very good if not the best, just not as good as the Qur'an. you'll hear lots of both in these lectures. i highly recommend that you and every one else listen to these.
another point that i don't have time to make [gotta get ready for prayer] is that the Prophet ,Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam is REBUKED in the Qur'an and there are instances of the Qur'an CONTRADICTING him! you REALLY should listen to this!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
first of all, i believe the word we are all trying to remember is unlettered!
with that out of the way, i wanted to address Whatsthepoint. while not directly answering that quote above, check out this if you have the wherewithall:
Mufti Ismail Menk does a Tafseer after Taraweh every year and it is sent out live to 120 countries and is recorded as well. Mufti Menk's Tafseer that year was on Asbab un Nazool, or Reasons of Revelation. the 23 years of revelation are covered and Mufti Menk is SPECTACULAR in these lectures. one of the things you will note and Menk points out as well is that there is a DIFFERENCE between Qur'an and Hadeeth! you can HEAR IT! as unlettered as the Prophet, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam was, his speech was very good if not the best, just not as good as the Qur'an. you'll hear lots of both in these lectures. i highly recommend that you and every one else listen to these.
I don't have time right now, and I don't think I'm ever gonna listen the entire lecture, so could you please summarize it? After you've done your praying, of course.
another point that i don't have time to make [gotta get ready for prayer] is that the Prophet ,Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam is REBUKED in the Qur'an and there are instances of the Qur'an CONTRADICTING him! you REALLY should listen to this!
So?
This could be a way of saying God is superior to Muhammad, that Muhammadad is a mere human and therefore fallible whereas Allah isn't. Or it could be his way of dealing with mistakes.
Muhammad may have believed what he was preachign so he could have percieved his internal spiritual/moral changes to come from God.
Etc etc.
IMHO we should always seek explanations other than supernatural ones.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 02-01-2008 at 02:27 PM.
The prophet (pbuh) was indeed illiterate, this makes the revalation a miracle in its self. In 610 AD he was visited in the cave during his sleep by the archangel Gabriel with a paper in his hand. Gabriel demanded, "read". Muhammad responded, "I don't read". Gabriel choked Muhammad for an instant then repeated his demand and Muhammad repeated his response. Gabriel choked Muhammad again for an instant and repeated his demand. Fearing to be choked for a third time, Muhammad asked, "Read what?" Gabriel responded, "Read in the name of your Lord who created... [Qur'an 96 :1]"
How can something so beautiful sent from God, choke someone and demand him to do anything? obsered, unbelieveable, not true...
But a for the rest of the story besides the choking and demanding, it's all a true story.
I don't have time right now, and I don't think I'm ever gonna listen the entire lecture, so could you please summarize it? After you've done your praying, of course.
It's best to seek knowledge from a higher more educated person that studies these things, not just what someone might just say because they heard it one day.
I think if you don't have time, then perhaps one day you will make time, summerizing only cause's confusion.
There are some great speeches by Yusif Estes, A Christian Preacher Convert. @
I don't have time right now, and I don't think I'm ever gonna listen the entire lecture, so could you please summarize it? After you've done your praying, of course.
it's 30 lectures, only about 17 or 18 hours. why not learn something about the Qur'an, Prophet, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam or Religion before making all of your judgements? you'll be better equipped to make your points. and actually, i know a Hafz who was totally blown away by the first couple of cds[i have it on cd, mp3 as well]; he said he learned more about the Qur'an in 3 hours than he learned in his entire life! so instead of spamming for a while, don't be afraid to listen...
So?
This could be a way of saying God is superior to Muhammad, that Muhammadad is a mere human and therefore fallible whereas Allah isn't. Or it could be his way of dealing with mistakes.
Muhammad may have believed what he was preachign so he could have percieved his internal spiritual/moral changes to come from God.
Etc etc.
IMHO we should always seek explanations other than supernatural ones.
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance
He Frowned Surah 80
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[80.1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[80.2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[80.3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[80.4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
the Prophet Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam was trying to convert the leaders of Quraish and literally turned his back on the blind man who was trying to ask him some questions about Islam. this blind man became Muslim and would be the Imam when the Prophet Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam was away on campaign. he later died a martyr in battle [he held the banner.]
[80.5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[80.6] To him do you address yourself.
[80.7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[80.8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[80.9] And he fears,
[80.10] From him will you divert yourself.
[80.11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.
[80.12] So let him who pleases mind it.
[80.13] In honored books,
[80.14] Exalted, purified,
[80.15] In the hands of scribes
[80.16] Noble, virtuous.
[80.17] Cursed be man! how ungrateful is he!
[80.18] Of what thing did He create him?
[80.19] Of a small seed; He created him, then He made him according to a measure,
[80.20] Then (as for) the way-- He has made it easy (for him)
[80.21] Then He causes him to die, then assigns to him a grave,
[80.22] Then when He pleases, He will raise him to life again.
[80.23] Nay; but he has not done what He bade him.
[80.24] Then let man look to his food,
[80.25] That We pour down the water, pouring (it) down in abundance,
[80.26] Then We cleave the earth, cleaving (it) asunder,
[80.27] Then We cause to grow therein the grain,
[80.28] And grapes and clover,
[80.29] And the olive and the palm,
[80.30] And thick gardens,
[80.31] And fruits and herbage
[80.32] A provision for you and for your cattle.
[80.33] But when the deafening cry comes,
[80.34] The day on which a man shall fly from his brother,
[80.35] And his mother and his father,
[80.36] And his spouse and his son--
[80.37] Every man of them shall on that day have an affair which will occupy him.
[80.38] (Many) faces on that day shall be bright,
[80.39] Laughing, joyous.
[80.40] And (many) faces on that day, on them shall be dust,
[80.41] Darkness shall cover them.
[80.42] These are they who are unbelievers, the wicked.
sorry after prayer, there's work!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
Honest question: How was Muhammad (pbuh) able to conduct trading and business transactions being illiterate? Anyone know specifically how he or arabs in general did business back then? Were they done verbally? Thanks.
u might not believe, but we have in my country businessmen who r billionires who r "angoothaa-chaap" = "can't even sign so use thumb print instead, for dealings" = "totally illiterate"
don't think 1400+ years back businesses were done with all those paper works/banks etc we have now.
I am confused about this because I have heard a couple different opinions. Does anyone have a definitive answer?
these r evidences that site uses:-
"Read! In the name of your Lord who creates...." (96:1)
don't u know what Prophet replied to this, "I can't read"
Bukhari:1:3:-
Narated By 'Aisha : (The mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read."
"Tales from the past that he wrote down; they were dictated to him day and night," Quran 25:4-5
these were allegations of his opponants.
Like Quran says "they say God has taken a son," so would u believe that God has a son??? NO. It's just an allegation of those who don't know.
As far as letters that prophet wrote r concerned, when a head of state writes letter to another, he doesn't type it himself, he dictates & his assistant writes it down. Still we say "President wrote a letter". Same way Ahadees use word that Prophet wrote to so & so.
If prophet could write why would he have so many Khutabs who use to write revelation for him!!! Like this one:- Bukhari:56:814:-
There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write for the Prophet
It's best to seek knowledge from a higher more educated person that studies these things, not just what someone might just say because they heard it one day.
I think if you don't have time, then perhaps one day you will make time, summerizing only cause's confusion.
There are some great speeches by Yusif Estes, A Christian Preacher Convert. @
and the korans in english/arabic are always free, get one today...
you know she has a point:
Originally posted by ummsara1108
What no bithdays?
Would it make it ok, if we celebrated it in our birth place?
Don't muslims make a point to goto Muhammads birth place, Madina? Isn't it part of Hajj to pay visit to Madina as well as other places like Mecca?
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
for the record the Prophet, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam was born in Makkah, he MAY have been conceived in Madinah; and unless i missed the news, we go to Makkah for Hajj!
back to work!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
How can something so beautiful sent from God, choke someone and demand him to do anything? obsered, unbelieveable, not true...
But a for the rest of the story besides the choking and demanding, it's all a true story.
peace be upon you
The word choke is not taken from the quran, it was word of man. I can across it on an islamic website in which i believe shouldnt be taken literaly. so basicly my bad!! lol kay:
In the name of (Allah) God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
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