well through Christ you already know you are saved no one can take that away not even satan can take it away.. you might slip away of course..
If that is true, than what is the purpose of satan? and what is the purpose for you living here in this world?
then to answer your first question.. it was intent that Jesus died on the cross just like it was needed for adam and eve to sin God knew they would sin thus they lost their perfect relationship with God after they did but.. so God intended to show His love for us by dying on the cross.. if you love someone and that someone treated you wrong what would you do? forgive them or not?
if Allah wasn't a liar then it sure sounds like He lied by making judas the replacement of Jesus...
basically by this u are belittling God, you are saying that He had to change himself from a superior into a weak human form, call himself Jesus so basically he also changed his name from God to Jesus?, and then have people who didnt have faith in him, kill him all so that He can forgive you for your sins correct?
Also, i would like to ask, do you believe that the Bible has been changed over the years to comply with the Christain's requests and have it be more lenient to their sinning? or basically just changed at all?
004.171O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
This ayah in the Holy Quran, clearly states that Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) was the son of Mary (peace and blessings be upon her) and a messenger of Allah's, nothing more. Also it is said that the Trinity does not exist, so we should refrain from such a belief because Allah is ONE and ONE only and He is much superior from having a son.
005.110 Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
Here it is said, ONLY by the Will of Allah's can something be what it is. And only by the Will of Allah, would Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) be able to perform the miracles and use the powers he was granted.
005.116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
Here it says that Allah will ask Jesus (peace and blessings upon him) about saying that he is supposed to be worshiped and he will reply that he has no right to say anything that Allah did not know of. I believe this will occur on the Day of Ressurection where all the nonbelievers will hear this statement.
I already basicly said it.. satans purpose is to try and pull the followers of God away from God and to him, he tempts us with sin
NO... not exactly.... God came to earth by showing us how loving He is... He died on the cross with the nails punksured in His hands and feet ( that is painful ) and then the biggest of flieghts that he showed was the ressurections telling us that DEATH has no power over him..
well people who were blinded by the darkness killed him...which there was a purpose in all that
are you asking how do I know the Bible is divine rather than Human in Origin?...
:SL:
bEFORE WE MOVE ON can u tell us where in bible word TRINITY IS MENTIOED?? Or where jesus said "OUR god is one in 3 god"
Famous verse of bible says : 4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Now y didnt jesus answer : "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one in THREE LORD:"?
And what does OUR god suppose to mean other than the fact jesus is saying ISRAEL ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNND my god is one god
Beside all biblical evidence, TRINITY is a mystery (confessed by most born-again christians), trinity is illogical. Islam is absolutely logical
the word "Trinity"--like "incarnation"-- is not found in scripture; however, it aptly codifies what God has condescended to reveal to us about his nature and being. In short, the Trinitarian platform contains three planks: (1) there is but one God; (2) the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; (3) Father, Son and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct.
The first plank underscores that there is only one God. Christianity is not polytheistic but fiercely monotheistic. "you are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" (isaiah 43:10).
The second plank emphasizes that in the hundreds of scripture passages the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are declared to be fully and completely God. as a case in point, the Apostle Paul says that, "there is but one God, the Father" (1 corinthians 8:6). The Father, speaking of the Son, says," Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever" ( Hebrews 1:8 ) . and when Ananias "Lied to the Holy Spirit," Peter points out that he had " not lied to me but to God" (Acts 5:3-4)
The third plank of the Trinitarian platform asserts that the Father, SOn, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct. Scripture clearly portrays subject/object relationships between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For example, the Father and Son love one another, speak to each other ( John 17:1-6), and together send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26 ). Additionally, Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges (John 8:14-18). If Jesus were himself the Father, his argument would not only have been irrelevent but it would have been fatally flawed; and if such were the case, he could not have been fully God.
It is important to note that when Trinitarians speak of one God they are referring to the nature or essence of God.Moreover, when they speak of persons they are referring to personal self-distinction within the Godhead. Put another way, we believe one what and three who's.
Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O isreal: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
Matthew 28:19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
I already basicly said it.. satans purpose is to try and pull the followers of God away from God and to him, he tempts us with sin
NO... not exactly.... God came to earth by showing us how loving He is... He died on the cross with the nails punksured in His hands and feet ( that is painful ) and then the biggest of flieghts that he showed was the ressurections telling us that DEATH has no power over him..
well people who were blinded by the darkness killed him...which there was a purpose in all that
are you asking how do I know the Bible is divine rather than Human in Origin?...
So you believe that Jesus is God. And above you have stated that Jesus is dead? How come God is dead?
If God is dead then how come the sun rises?
how come the plants grow?
How come the wind blows?
How come there is life on Earth?
U believe that Jesus is God, So U must believe that God is the creator of everything! So how come the creator is dead and the creations are alive?
By the way why does the bible keep on changing?
But no one can or could ever bring any chages to Quran?
BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN HE WHOM THE APOSTLES FOLLOWED:
1- Where, specifically, in the Gospel does Jesus (PBUH!) mention the Trinity?
(If you find no such reference from his lips to a god residing in three persons -- and you will not -- then perhaps you will be moved to consider the following questions)
2- How could Jesus (PBUH!) possibly have omitted to mention something of such extraordinary importance?
* How could the authors of the four Gospels have made the same extraordinary omission?
(For no direct reference to the Trinity appears in any chapter or verse of any of the four Gospels. It is a patching-on from a later era.)
3- Why does Jesus (PBUH!) in the Lord's prayer address the Lord as "Father" and then refer to the Father's children throughout as "Us" and "We," instead of separating himself from the rest of the children of God, as the Trinity would seem to demand?
4- (And here, brothers and sisters, is the big question, the question that takes no small degree of courage to address honestly) If redemption through the blood of Christ, that one member of the Trinity, is all that is necessary for salvation, how are we to explain the many, many occasions in the Gospel that Jesus (PBUH!) details the necessity of submitting directly to the One God -- without ever mentioning the role of his (Jesus', PBUH!) redeeming blood?
Brothers and sisters: Are these not extraordinary teachings? Are they not central to the ministry of Jesus (PBUH!)? And must we not confront dozens of them in order to defend the Trinity and the notion of the sacrificial Christ?
I am thinking, specifically, of:
1. His instruction to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind." (Matthew 22:27.) -- Jesus [PBUH!] identifies this submission to the One God as the *supreme* commandment, and yet for some reason he makes no mention within it of the sacrificial Christ or to one god in three persons, which are supposedly central to his ministry! Quite an oversight! Or are we to assume that Jesus [PBUH!] never actually uttered these words about the supreme commandment?
2. His parable of the Prodigal Son. This contains no reference whatsoever to the sacrificial Christ, or to any intermediary whatsoever for salvation. And the parable certainly makes no reference to the repentant son returning from his sinful journey to a father who takes the form of three persons. He returns to ONE father, not three. Surely we must either conclude that this, the most celebrated of the parables, has nothing to do with the Trinity or with the notion of a sacrificial Christ -- or, if we wish to retain the Trinity and the notion of a sacrificial Christ, we must conclude that this is not an authentic teaching of Jesus [PBUH!]. Brothers and sisters, fellow Christians -- which is it to be?
3. His instruction to become as children (humble, trusting, submitting to the Lord) in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. (See Matthew 18:3.) There is no mention here of the sacrificial Christ as necessary to this entry to the Kingdom, and certainly no mention of one god in three persons! Again: Are we to believe that this is not an authentic teaching of Jesus [PBUH!]? We must assume such a position if we wish to support the Trinity and the notion of a sacrificial Christ.
4. His insistence on the importance of the individual's development of personal faith, without intermediaries, in the One God. This, my brothers and sisters, is Islam! If that word frightens us, or if we wish to make ourselves feel more comfortable with the actual content of this divine ministry, sidestepping for the moment its verbal labels, we may call it "Jesus' ministry" or "Jesus' teachings." (PBUH!) But his ministry is manifestly one of submission to the One God, and we must think long and hard about the consequences of rejecting it in its true form. There are dozens of examples of such Gospel teachings about the development of STRONG individual faith WITHOUT INTERMEDIARIES, among them Matthew 6:23, 7:7, 17:20, Mark 11:23, Luke 9: 61-62, Luke 15:8, etc. etc. -- and yet there is no mention in any of these or the many other such passages of the sacrificial Christ or of one god in three persons! Is not this a remarkable fact? How are we to account for it?
Brothers and sisters, I ask you as one who has closely studied the Gospel of Jesus (PBUH!) for thirty years: What kind of faith can we claim to be developing through the religion that bears this man's name, if such faith is at variance with what he actually taught? Why, in other words, did Jesus (PBUH!) bother to teach his followers -- you and I, brothers and sisters -- of the growth of the mustard seed, of the woman who seeks for the ten silver pieces, of the impossibility of being fit for the Kingdom of God for one who sets his hand to the plough and then keeps looking back -- why did he pronounce all these extraordinary exhortations to PERSONAL, UNMEDIATED faith in the One God, if all of them are to be superseded by his own unique personal role as a member of the Trinity and his personal blood-sacrifice for a sinful humanity? Again, we must choose whether we are to accept the Trinity and the notion of a sacrificial Christ, or we must choose to accepts the teachings of Jesus (PBUH!) concerning personal faith in the One God.
It is not a difficult choice, brothers and sisters.
There are, we would all agree, many corruptions in the New Testament. There are many points where the various texts contradict themselves or send strange messages patched on in later years. Yet if we read the texts carefully, we can identify those portions of the text that illuminate Jesus' actual ministry on earth. It is clearly a ministry that preaches submission to the One God.
Brothers and sisters -- seek carefully out the words of the man we have for so long called the Lord, and remember his words to us: "Why do you say Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?"
6- Conclusion:
Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God.
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Israel ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' "
Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, ..."
well through Christ you already know you are saved no one can take that away not even satan can take it away.. you might slip away of course..
then to answer your first question.. it was intent that Jesus died on the cross just like it was needed for adam and eve to sin God knew they would sin thus they lost their perfect relationship with God after they did but.. so God intended to show His love for us by dying on the cross.. if you love someone and that someone treated you wrong what would you do? forgive them or not?
if Allah wasn't a liar then it sure sounds like He lied by making judas the replacement of Jesus...
Allah is God, the same God you pray to, though you also pray to the prophet Jesus, please refrain from calling God a lier, its extreemly offencive, as i explained before Allah is
Al which means The
and Lah which means God so the word Allah means The God, its not a special word used only by muslims, arabic speaking christians use the word Allah too.
Allah replaced caused another man to look like Jesus, as a punishment for his sin of disloyalty and God knows best why he was caused to die on the cross, Jesus as never said he was the son of God or was God, he always said worship God but never claimed divinity for himself ever,
The trinity is not mentioned in the bible, so where did the idea of the trinity come from, ??
(7) And will make him (Iesa (Jesus)) a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allahs Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allahs Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. (Chapter #3, Verse #49)
we believe Jesus as performed miricles by the will of God, not because he was divine himself, by Gods will he cured the sick and raised the dead, just as the prophet moses parted the sea, by Gods will, not because he had any special powers himself.
So you believe that Jesus is God. And above you have stated that Jesus is dead? How come God is dead?
If God is dead then how come the sun rises?
how come the plants grow?
How come the wind blows?
How come there is life on Earth?
U believe that Jesus is God, So U must believe that God is the creator of everything! So how come the creator is dead and the creations are alive?
By the way why does the bible keep on changing?
But no one can or could ever bring any chages to Quran?
how about you read what I said about the trinity
John 12:23 Jesus Predicts His Death..
23Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
27"Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28Father, glorify your name!"
Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and will glorify it again." 29The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
John 8:20
"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
you ever read the passions of the Christ ( good movie )anyone?
I listened to that radio talk show last night it was alright. but we worship different God then what he said we did
In (Mathew 12:18): "Here is my servant whom i have chosen,..."
Is it reasonable that god call another god "my servant"?! Choosing this particular word indicates that God doesnt consider Jesus as an equal god or even a son, but rather a human servant.
Besides, even if J. was called son of god in the Gospels, this doesnt make him necessarily a god because Jacob or Israel was called son of god too in the Bible. Plz read (Exodus 4:22): "Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."
King David was called son of god too in the Bible: (psalm 2:7)
Solomon too: (II Sam. 7:13-14)
Even Ephraim: (Jermiah 31:9)
Common People: (Deut. 14:1); (Romans 8:29); (Mathew 5:45-48); and (II Connthians 6:18)
So to be called son of god in the Bible this doesnt prove that J. is a god.
In (Luke 13:33) Jesus himself said:
" I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day - for surely no "PROPHET" can die outside Jeusalem."
Jesus called himself a prophet and he never called himself a god.
Can you give me just one text from the Bible in which J. said frankly that he is god or asked his followers to worship him?
'The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers the like of whom had passed away before him . . . O people of the Book - stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of a people who went astray before you.' (Surat al-Ma'ida, 75)
And again:
'O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, nor utter anything concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say 'Three'. Desist, it will be better for you. God is only One God. . . . The Messiah would never have scorned to be a slave of God.' (Surat al-Nisa, 171-2)
Jusus was not God, nor did he ever claim to be God!
The Father, speaking of the Son, says," Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever" ( Hebrews 1:8 ) .
and in the new testiment: 22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son.
firstborn son. a figure of speech indicating isreal's special relationship with God ( see jer 31:9; Hos 11:1)
Luke 3:38
"the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the Son of God"
If you accept one part of the Bible as literally meaning 'son of god' you must accept the other parts as well.
There is nothing about Jesus, from the miracle birth, to his life, to his death, that indicates he is the son of God. His birth is like Adam's - no father. His miracles were not unique - Prophets had peformed them before him. His death did not indicate his divinity - in fact he said that he is 'flesh' to Mary after the crucifixion took place.
And when he talked about himself, he considered himself as a prophet who was sent from God, not a a god who has a freewill to do what he likes.
He said in (John 8:26-29):
".... But He Who sent me is Reliable, and what i have heard from Him I tell the world ... and that i do nothing on my own but speak just what the father has taught me. The One Who sent me is with me, He has not left me alone, for i always do what pleases Him."
I think that if you thought deeply in this quote you will find the truth by yourself, but i will try to help u.
From this quote we can conclude that J. doesnt have a freewill to say to the people what he wants, but rather what God wants him to say. And this is the mission of prophets: "to convey God's message to the world".
That's why he used to say "who sent me", gods dont send each other, God sends humans or angels or any of His creatures.
As in the quote mentioned above, Jesus affirmed that he did nothing on his own but spoke JUST what God taught him.
I think that this sentence tells everything, J. couldnt say a word on his own but only what God taught him.
Even the word "taught" that Jesus used has many implications, god doesnt need to be taught, he should know everything. Who needs to be taught? Humans or creatures in general.
God teaches not be taught.
If you applied God's characteristics on Jesus and applied them on J., the notion of divinity wont be applicable on him.
Instead Humans' characteristics could be easily applied on him.
"the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the Son of God"
If you accept one part of the Bible as literally meaning 'son of god' you must accept the other parts as well.
There is nothing about Jesus, from the miracle birth, to his life, to his death, that indicates he is the son of God. His birth is like Adam's - no father. His miracles were not unique - Prophets had peformed them before him. His death did not indicate his divinity - in fact he said that he is 'flesh' to Mary after the crucifixion took place.
yes but the difference between adam and seth is the fact Jesus contained all the attributes of God... Jesus woke the dead did moses do the same?
moses seperated water with what? a staff...1 cor. 12:12-13
"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
Ephesians 1:15-18 "He[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him... And he is the head of the body, the church...
IN THE WILL OF THE ONE AND ONLY GOD I CHALLENGE YOU FOR THIS!!!
You claim that you love Jesus and bible.
I'll give you a little example for you to workout. You are telling that God
came to Earth to show his love. For example maybe tomorrow If I were to
be beaten and crucified would you start worshippping me? It might be
that God once again came to Earth in the form of a human. Did the
people who were there to crucify your God knew that they were killing God?
I wonder? Maybe they might not know that, because if they knew
they wouldn't kill the God because God gives his creations food,
shelter, wealth and everything they desire. For example a person won't
kill his friend if he helps him, if he gives money to him, if he cares about him.
So the people who killed your God might not know that it was God.
So my question is " How do you know that Jesus is God?" In the
bible Jesus never claimed that he is God! But he only tried to tell
you not to do wrong and to worship the one and only God! If you
only try to understand the bible more you may come across this.
I'll tell you one thing, we Muslims Love Jesus more than
Christians!!!!
We respect him more than Christians. And we believe Jesus was
given a book which shows right and wrong. But our Quran came
to us from that God who created Jesus and all that exist. Allah has
informed us that a book was given to Jesus, but the book was changed!
(by your preists in general). We love Muhammed (p.b.u.h) but we will never
ever worship him,Insha Allah ( by the will of Allah ) as a Muslim.
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Re: Why don't Muslims believe in the Trinity?
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