Taqlid in the time of Sahaba.

https://islamqa.info/en/23280

Imitation (taqleed), following the evidence (daleel) – and was Ibn Hazm a Hanbali? - islamqa.info How can a person not make taqleed and still at the same time follow the teachings of one of the imams hanafimaalikishaafi and ahmad bin hanbalmay allahs.w have ...

I believe its one of the tests to his righteous believers which had been even to the sahabas as Allah 's words http://legacy.quran.com/67/2 anyhow ought & will happen to see what did they do , did they follow the Calipha or their own ego etc

Some hadith like this has further info about this

ADVICE OF PROPHET TO BE KEPT IN MIND ALWAYS AND TO FOLLOW IT.

Dawud :: Book 40 : Hadith 4590
Narrated Irbad ibn Sariyah:

AbdurRahman ibn Amr as-Sulami and Hujr ibn Hujr said: We came to Irbad ibn Sariyah who was among those about whom the following verse was revealed: "Nor (is there blame) on those who come to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou saidst: "I can find no mounts for you."

We greeted him and said: We have come to see you to give healing and obtain benefit from you.

Al-Irbad said: One day the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) led us in prayer, then faced us and gave us a lengthy exhortation at which the eyes shed tears and the hearts were afraid.

A man said: Apostle of Allah! It seems as if it were a farewell exhortation, so what injunction do you give us?

He then said: I enjoin you to fear Allah, and to hear and obey even if it be an Abyssinian slave, for those of you who live after me will see great disagreement. You must then follow my sunnah and that of the rightly-guided caliphs. Hold to it and stick fast to it. Avoid novelties, for every novelty is an innovation, and every innovation is an error.


INCIDENT OF SALAH ITSELF

Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4374 It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah who said: On the day he returned from the Battle of Ahzab, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made for us an announcement that nobody would say his Zuhr prayer but in the quarters of Banu Quraiza (Some) people, being afraid that the time for prayer would expire, said their prayers before reaching the street of Banu Quraiza. The others said: We will not say our prayer except where the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has ordered us to say it even if the time expires. (When he learned of the difference in the view of the two groups of the people, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did not blame anyone from the two groups.



SAME ISSUE but DIFFERENT order OF NABI


Dawud :: Book 13 : Hadith 2381 Narrated AbuHurayrah: A man asked the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) whether one who was fasting could embrace (his wife) and he gave him permission; but when another man came to him, and asked him, he forbade him. The one to whom he gave permission was an old man and the one whom he forbade was a youth.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

What I quoted is involvement of people of madina in taqlid shaykhsi of Hz zaid bin thabit ra.

So question arise why they were involved in taqlid shakhsi..?

Although the q was adressed to another member, i intend no disrespect or rudeness by interjecting and believe it's best to answer if one believes they can shed light on a topic and is allowed to speak -

the simplest and most truthful to best of knowledge answer is usually best, though it's sometimes good to elaborate. Hence fuzzy logic is required.


Why use logic?


Allah informed the angels who trusted Him that His knowledge overwhelmed their God-given logical conclusions, they then bowed to Adam after a knowledge (plus logic?) presentation, iblis the ignorant racial supremacist disagreed and used flawed and unstable logic proving that Allah does not suffer purposeful and selectively ignorant fools too well. Hence TRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE and it's application is what sustains logic, with Wisdom being the actual resultant measure from the human perspective. Also access to truthful (accurate) data and efficient sandboxing and defining of doubtful and false data (like a good and wholesome virus definitions database) is required for good conclusions and decisions. That's why sound minded, knowledgeable, experienced, and truthful adults are usually consulted about affairs of moment where wisdom is required instead of consulting less knowledgeable children who work on high binary logic, (although a truthful and innocent child is more reliable than a deceitful, greedy, corrupt and unwise adult (e.g the boy who heard ibn ubay and was confirmed by Allah).
......Therefore - truthfulness, wisdom, and good judgement (logic) are sought and must somehow be combined and complicated decisions must be made - especially where both consultants are trustworthy - sometimes FUZZY.

The video embedded below is a presentation of situational apparent fuzzy logic reasoning in contrast to easy clear-branching binary logic.
(The human brain which also receives inspiration takes many shady variables into account hence processes them in a different manner to computers).-
Still all of this data is being regularly calculated and re-calculated at lightning fast speeds and that's what those people's brains were doing regularly.



- these respected people were not practising taqleed of abu jahl or abu lahab or any dead person -but were the type who were prepared (purposefully so) to stand against themselves if necessary, and since they trusted that the opinion of zayd was the most knowledgeable and sound opinion, better than their own and anybody elses, they accepted it in a wise manner.
The system they had built with Allah's messenger and only with Allah's help was a just, truthful, and well functioning leadership structure, and the best method of resolving differences and uniting on issues was by delegating decisions where disputes were taking place to accepted wise leaders whom they trusted and valued as having good intellect and judgement and the ability to argue with their counterparts in an amicable manner and to unite sincerely on the best choice whilst taking possible and probable outcomes into consideration. The people who sincerely and justly accepted zayd 's reasoning did not prevent or hinder ibn abbass from appealing and arguing his opinion against that of zayd's and it seems from their curiousity and questioning that they were eager to learn.
Also the opinion/ruling of zaid was already standing, and the opinion of ibn Abbas (they didn't usually do contrary rulings but heard and obeyed unless they believed that the new opinion was better and worthy of being accepted as a ruling IN ALLAH'S OPINION.
The people of the sabbath were not suffered well for their illogical disputes and foolish egotistic arguments - the new breed knew better and took responsibility and solved things in a dignified and just manner.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Were they ignorant of knowledge of deen...?

Absolutely not. Some had more knowledge, intellect, and judgement than others, and since these people were trained in deduction and wisdom via the Quran and the Messenger, they knew better than to practice anarchy - the system wasn't broken and didn't need to be fixed - a smooth and sound decision i would say.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

And what you are saying is related to 4 madhab. IslahaALlah I'll discuss it later.

They lived and died in their age in a generation that is now past, they will be responsible for their deeds and us for ours, these ages come under the umbrella of the final messenger's age which continues. Allah, the truth, and the situation, do not come under their umbrella, they were wise students and then accepted guides who had their eyes, ears, minds, and hearts open whilst they were alive and were dwelling on earth and people were able to consult them. Their problems, methods, and judgements are available to us for study, but they have no governmental enforcement authority over us (as they had during their tenures) and to say that they do would be shirk even if their judgements were being enforced today by SOMEONE ELSE who is alive.
We cannot lay consultation on their shoulders, nor responsibility for implementation of any decision since they will deny anybody's worship of them on the day when the truthful will benifit from their truth therefore our reference points may be many but the focal point must be Allah - the Author of truth and the laws which govern our universe.

The paths previously walked upon are many and some are very blurry where much grass has grown, the Prophet drew it, it's the straight, humble and truthful one and the only way we're going to get safely to the end is by looking for it instead of following another dead (albeit wise) person's footsteps regardless of where they went wrong or meandered, a person who themself sought the straight path in their day, maybe it was a park then and now it's a barracks.

Allah who is most wise knows best, i believe that's where our hearts and minds should looking when measuring and deciding the location of the path, looking at the 4 imams' maps should be helpful, but no guarantee we'll find it drawn perfectly accurately though since they didn't have the blueprint then and definitely don't have it now.


ANNUIT COEPTIS???
Who is HE???

I have often seen the hadith in question used in explanation of Quran 9:31.

9:31 They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Once while Allah's Messenger was reciting this verse, 'Adi bin Hatim said, "O Allah's Messenger! They do not worship them." Allah's Messenger said, "They certainly do. The scholars and monks have made lawful things as unlawful and unlawful things as lawful, and the Jews and Christians followed them; and by doing so they worshipped them."
While searching for the source of this hadith, I came across a different narration (Jami' Tirmidhi 3106, graded hasan by Albani) of apparently the same situation, which states,

…He also said, "They did not worship them, but if they made anything lawful for them, they adopted it as lawful. And when they made anything unlawful, they adopted it as unlawful for themselves."
How authentic is this first hadith? Also, any references to which compilations it can be found in, and if it was ever narrated in any other forms (be they weaker or stronger), would be appreciated.
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This is my amateur research. Ibn Kathir says in his book Tafsir ibn Kathir in the chapter on Surat Taubah:

[ وَقَوْلُهُ ] ( اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ ) رَوَى الْإِمَامُ أَحْمَدُ ، وَالتِّرْمِذِيُّ ، وَابْنُ جَرِيرٍ مِنْ طُرُقٍ ، عَنْ عَدِيِّ بْنِ حَاتِمٍ - رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ - أَنَّهُ لَمَّا بَلَغَتْهُ دَعْوَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - فَرَّ إِلَى الشَّامِ ، وَكَانَ قَدْ تَنَصَّرَ فِي الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ ، فَأُسِرَتْ أُخْتُهُ وَجَمَاعَةٌ مِنْ قَوْمِهِ ، ثُمَّ مَنَّ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - عَلَى أُخْتِهِ وَأَعْطَاهَا ، فَرَجَعَتْ إِلَى أَخِيهَا ، وَرَغَّبَتْهُ فِي الْإِسْلَامِ وَفِي الْقُدُومِ عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - فَقَدِمَ عَدِيٌّ الْمَدِينَةَ ، وَكَانَ رَئِيسًا فِي قَوْمِهِ طَيِّئٍ ، وَأَبُوهُ حَاتِمٌ الطَّائِيُّ الْمَشْهُورُ بِالْكَرَمِ ، فَتَحَدَّثَ النَّاسُ بِقُدُومِهِ ، فَدَخَلَ عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - وَفِي عُنُقِ عَدِيٍّ صَلِيبٌ مِنْ فِضَّةٍ ، فَقَرَأَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - هَذِهِ الْآيَةَ : ( اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ) قَالَ : فَقُلْتُ : إِنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَعْبُدُوهُمْ . فَقَالَ : بَلَى ، إِنَّهُمْ حَرَّمُوا عَلَيْهِمُ الْحَلَالَ ، وَأَحَلُّوا لَهُمُ الْحَرَامَ ، فَاتَّبَعُوهُمْ ، فَذَلِكَ عِبَادَتُهُمْ إِيَّاهُمْ . وَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - : يَا عَدِيُّ ، مَا تَقُولُ ؟ أَيُفِرُّكَ أَنْ يُقَالَ : اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ ؟ فَهَلْ تَعْلَمُ شَيْئًا أَكْبَرَ مِنَ اللَّهِ ؟ مَا يُفِرُّكَ ؟ أَيُفِرُّكَ أَنْ يُقَالَ : لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ؟ فَهَلْ تَعْلَمُ مِنْ إِلَهٍ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ؟ ثُمَّ دَعَاهُ إِلَى الْإِسْلَامِ فَأَسْلَمَ ، وَشَهِدَ شَهَادَةَ الْحَقِّ ، قَالَ : فَلَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ وَجْهَهُ اسْتَبْشَرَ ثُمَّ قَالَ : إِنَّ الْيَهُودَ مَغْضُوبٌ عَلَيْهِمْ ، وَالنَّصَارَى ضَالُّونَ . (source)
So we learn that this hadith is in Musnad Ahmad, Jami' at-Tirmidhi and ibn Jarir at-Tabari's book.

I was able to locate the hadith in Jami' at-Tirmidhi (number 3095):

عَنْ عَدِيِّ بْنِ حَاتِمٍ قَالَ أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَفِي عُنُقِي صَلِيبٌ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ فَقَالَ يَا عَدِيُّ اطْرَحْ عَنْكَ هَذَا الْوَثَنَ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقْرَأُ فِي سُورَةِ بَرَاءَةٌ اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ قَالَ أَمَا إِنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَكُونُوا يَعْبُدُونَهُمْ وَلَكِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا إِذَا أَحَلُّوا لَهُمْ شَيْئًا اسْتَحَلُّوهُ وَإِذَا حَرَّمُوا عَلَيْهِمْ شَيْئًا حَرَّمُوهُ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ غَرِيبٌ لَا نَعْرِفُهُ إِلَّا مِنْ حَدِيثِ عَ

https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...worship-hadith

When the Messenger of Allah died, Hazrat Abu Bakr was in his house in Sunh. They gave him the bad news. Hazrat Abu Bakr, who felt as if one part of his part broke off, went to the house of the Messenger of Allah quickly.

He lifted the cloth that covered the blessed face of the Messenger of Allah in terror and astonishment. His face was in the form of embodied light. He bowed down and kissed the Prophet’s bright and luminous forehead three times. He uttered the following words in tears:

“O Messenger of Allah! Your death is as clean and graceful as your life.”[2]

Then, he consoled the household of the Prophet.

Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar

After leaving the house of the Prophet, Hazrat Abu Bakr went to the Mosque. He heard Hazrat Umar say, “The Messenger of Allah did not die.” Thereupon, he said,

“Whoever worships Muhammad (pbuh) should know that Muhammad (pbuh) died. Whoever worships Allah should know that Allah is Hayy (immortal).”[3]

Then, he recited the following verse:

“Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before Him. If he died or was slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude”

https://questionsonislam.com/article...h-prophet-pbuh

115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118. "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
119. Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).
120. To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.

From Quran, Chapter 5, The table spread.





Here's a practical demo of how such logic sometimes works:

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

@Abz2000 :

Do you know that authenticity of hadith depends on blind taqlid of muhaddisin...?

And all of us are involved in it.

I haven't a clue as to who might have told you that.
Truth is truth and error is error, the Muhadditheen were human and subject to error, so truth will always override error. This is not a way of life where your priests tell you that god has one eye or multiple arms and legs (and some might say it's probably a woman with two dudes hiding behind her or sumfing shifty like that ) and you just accept it out of respect for your ancestors in case you belie them and "hence" call them stupid and then be made to wear a dunce hat in the corner of the classroom. You seek the truth, and the truth is what sets you free no matter what your background and who your scholars are - since scholars are students and not the authors of truth.

According to the munaafiq jews and sellout scholars subject to rome who were accustomed to switching words and names from their correct places, and who also had an addiction to perverting rulings of muhadditheen and rebelling against Allah whilst attempting to deceive Allah and the believers by pretending to please Him with song from their mouths, Mary should have been stoned, however, according to God who revealed the scripture and knew what they disclosed as well as what they hid, they themselves were in the process of making themselves worthy of stoning for their perversive lies, deceptions, corruption, and pretended appeasement of God for the sake of unjust exploitation and diversion of the masses.

How would you react if it happened today?
Flogging perhaps? Or maybe a more contextual and just holistic view of the situation and an attempt to understand our situation and what Allah wants and is warning us about?


Intentionally in this context means believing it to be untrue/highly doubtful, therefore if someone with a muhaddith certificate tells me something which i believe or know to be a lie, i will not be able to shift the burden of blame of my consequent wrong actions on him/her based on that lie unless i am under some sort of compulsion beyond what i can reasonably bear in Allah's sight.

Hadith No: 109
From: Sahih Bukhari. Chapter 3, Knowledge
Narrated/Authority of Salama
I heard the Prophet saying, "Whoever (intentionally) ascribes to me what I have not said then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire."
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Hadith No: 108
From: Sahih Bukhari. Chapter 3, Knowledge
Narrated/Authority of Anas
The fact which stops me from narrating a great number of Hadiths to you is that the Prophet said: "Whoever tells a lie against me intentionally, then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire."
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Hadith No: 110
From: Sahih Bukhari. Chapter 3, Knowledge
Narrated/Authority of Abu Huraira
The Prophet said, "Name yourselves with my name (use my name) but do not name yourselves with my Kunya name (i.e. Abu-l Qasim). And whoever sees me in a dream then surely he has seen me for Satan cannot impersonate me. And whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally), then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire."
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Hadith No: 107
From: Sahih Bukhari. Chapter 3, Knowledge
Narrated/Authority of Abdullah bin Az-Zubair
I said to my father, 'I do not hear from you any narration (Hadith) of Allah s Apostle as I hear (his narrations) from so and so?" Az-Zubair replied. l was always with him (the Prophet) and I heard him saying "Whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then (surely) let him occupy, his seat in Hell-fire.

@azc i must've edited my post as u were typing, there is a small update there that should explain what i meant.