Hey Agnostics & Atheists: Do you ever worry?

God needing a book centers on the arguement of does God need provability?

A book is clearly a highly flawed method of spreading Gods word. The bible has thousands of translations all different, yet as a catholic argued with me today the message stays the same. well, no it dosnt. The message is warped and twisted into a parody of what it originally meant, and a good thing that is too, lest we still stoned the flippant child to death or slaughtered a pair of doves in pennace for menstruating.
Islam has a greater claim to the actual words not being changed for several hundred years, although the initial collection and transcription to pen and ink is based on differing interpretations of what thousands of early muslims thought had been said.

Regardless, even this changes with humanitys growth. The verses that modern "moderate" muslims trip over in efforts to justify, needed no justification in earlier morally bankrupt days. Kill an apostate? What would be the problem with that? Evolution? it's all there if you "correctly interprate" the words in their "true context"
Hence the Korans words do not change but the religions message does.
Christianity has always vented lyrical on the godhood of jesus, but the messages that once sent the Templar Knights into reckless charges are now simply "correctly interpreted" as fighting sin within the heart.
Jihad we are assured isnt about killing the infidel until all submit. It's about the inner struggle with your own emotions and ego.

So if God wanted to write a book, he would have to write it in an ever updated printrun to move along with mans needs. It wouldnt require such laughable contortions by slightly embarrassed apologists. The word apologist would not stem from apology.

God would be quite able to simply carve the sky with his message so it can be seen. He isnt shy of interacting with us. He "answers prayers" every day, he sent angels with 900 mile wide wings, he parted seas and split the moon,(then stuck it back together). He clearly wants us to know just who built this rock and who stuck the dust together into bipedal shapes.

So is it that he is hiding in order to give us free choice? As I think Hitchens said once, if he met St Peter on the day of judgement and was asked why he diddnt beleive, he would say , "But you diddnt give enough evidence". And thats fair play. Science now provides us with measurable factual hard evidence that Yahweh and all the manifestations and interpretations of "him", simply dosnt exist. Would god plant evidence against his existance? So that the less gullible are doomed to hell by their own intelligence?

Jesus is supposed to have said "you have seen me and have beleived, more blessed art those who havnt seen me and beleived", which when you think about it, you have to hand it to the scriptwriter as a really neat peice of recruiting jargon.

Athiests
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format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi

Well, contrary to Islam, Christianity does not make the claim that God writes books. .

& That is exactly why christians are rather content and busy making up fanciful assertion of the nature of God, while selling 'God' dolls at walmart and borders!


on a separate note:
Why would God write a book was adequately answered with semantics as is usually the case when one is presented with the fixed question fallacy aka non-questions!..

a simple answer to why.. is really why not? what would you propose an appropriate method?--
Why do we approach any science with books and applications of what lies therein?

Why not just wing it or have the preceptors give us the answers in advance?
Then we can all be equally teachers, doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, computer programmers without study or effort!

No problem with the idea of God writing books. I do have a big one with the absence of regular updates when, despite claims to the contrary, they clearly seem to be necessary (things have changed rather since the 7th century). The reason for their absence is, I'm afraid, obvious. To me, at least.

Foundation of what is right and wrong is set.. any new issues that arise, is why we have scholars.. if you know the etiology of something you'll be good to go as to how to proceed.. Every people have experienced what is right for them.. During Prophet Mohammed's time, people were still asking him for miracles.. as they have asked of those before.. the fact is with or without 'supernatural acts', there will always be nonbelievers.. The Quran is transcendent.. there is nothing beyond that, that needs be addressed!

cheers

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

Did you tie my shoelaces together when I wasn't looking?

No!

but look?!
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)

this is what i was refering to

my signature

format_quote Originally Posted by Makky

No!

but look?!
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)

this is what i was refering to

my signature

That is what you believe and in your eyes that would be a true assessment of atheists/agnostics. Of course I could very well say that you are wrong so the verse doesn't have an effect.

As for the topic, I don't worry even if a certain religion is true because there are just so many religions out there (a lot I've probably never heard of) that by playing the percentages, I'd most definitely pick the wrong one anyways.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado

That is what you believe and in your eyes that would be a true assessment of atheists/agnostics. Of course I could very well say that you are wrong so the verse doesn't have an effect.

As for the topic, I don't worry even if a certain religion is true because there are just so many religions out there (a lot I've probably never heard of) that by playing the percentages, I'd most definitely pick the wrong one anyways.

in your city where you live, you have thousnads of people living around.. but when you decide to go to the doctor , you don't pick any person walking in the street.. you foll0w another procedure..

anyway this is a special invitation for you

challenge

ignore this invitation if you need more time to read and to open your mind.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado

Except that these "thousands of people" all claim to be "doctors". Ultimately, chances are that if I did choose a religion, the percentages would be against me so I don't worry about it.

If you don't worry about it then why are you here on an islamic forum , what is the main purpose of being here.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado

Except that these "thousands of people" all claim to be "doctors". Ultimately, chances are that if I did choose a religion, the percentages would be against me so I don't worry about it.

Logically that is wrong assumption. Lets say if there are 2000 religions on one of them is correct then chances still are better to choose anyone of the religion rather than none. (Probability of choosing one would be 1/2000 vs 0/2000.... 1/2000 > 0.)

^ Ha .

format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck

Logically that is wrong assumption. Lets say if there are 2000 religions on one of them is correct then chances still are better to choose anyone of the religion rather than none. (Probability of choosing one would be 1/2000 vs 0/2000.... 1/2000 > 0.)

Indeed. However, I don't believe in a god and don't believe in an afterlife. If I HAD to choose, then I'd still be against the numbers. Even so, a true god would know that if I was actually sincere. Thus, honesty is the reason I don't have a particular religion because I'd be lying to myself.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

The written word exists due to limitations between humans that an all powerful being would not have to work under. An all powerful being would not need a "method" to transfer what he wishes us to know to us. We would simply know it inately. After all, he did create us right?

Given that you are not 'an all powerful being' I propose you don't speak on his behalf... and indeed it is innate in all of us, I suspect that is why an atheist such as yourself is so preoccupied with comparative religion.. I suspect if you were content with 'No God' you wouldn't spend the latter half of your life trying to enforce your beliefs on a religious forum!

Because we are not Gods. We can't just magically obtain perfect knowledge, so we need science to make our best estimations.

indeed and science comes in many different forms.. there is a science to art, and a science to religion... all sciences start with a book...
God's first creation was a pen.. and the first sura to descend started with the word Read!

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

Perhaps god prefers people who don't believe at all or don't know what to believe than those who believe in the wrong version.

A lot of holy texts seem to hint at exactly this. I've seen many more stories (bible included) of God(s) punishing their people for worshiping false gods, but much fewer of God(s) punishing those who don't believe at all.

And really, can you MAKE yourself believe in a particular God even if it makes no sense to you?

And is a cost / benefits analysis of heaven and hell really a good and sincere motivation to worship?

And even if you decide a particular god exists, don't you then have to make another decision as to whether you consider him/her/it/them worthy of your worship? And would you deem worthy and just a God who places belief in him without evidence as more important than good works? I think the moral thing to do would be to rebel against such a being.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

And even if you decide a particular god exists, don't you then have to make another decision as to whether you consider him/her/it/them worthy of your worship?

Well, if that God is telling you to worship him and threatening you with hell if you don't, then you'd better get started!