Do christians worship God and Jesus both equally etc?,
or just Jesus on his own? Or do some christians only worship God?
Seriously I don't have a clue!
Well I've seen boards outside churches saying 'Your Lord is Jesus, Come worship him here' it sounded as if worshipping the Creator himself doesn't matter
Also when you 'thank God' do you thank Jesus or God ? the same with other situations
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Matthew 16:16-20
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
You need to do a lot of reading.
Jesus did not say in this passage that he was the Son of God, he tiold the disciples not to tell that he was the Christ, or Messiah, he did not say he was the Son of God.
Lol i'm glad you found it funny, because I find it funny when someone says 'thank the lord' And I think to myself which one? Just like how when hindus say thank god, I'm like which one?
So could you just give me a simple answer to who you're referring to when you say 'Praise the Lord'
thanks
Whoever we thank we thank the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.That's the only God we know.
Jesus did not say in this passage that he was the Son of God, he tiold the disciples not to tell that he was the Christ, or Messiah, he did not say he was the Son of God.
Why did Jesus not correct him but on the contrary bless upon his confession that He was the Christ, Son of the ever living God.
Jesus did not say in this passage that he was the Son of God, he tiold the disciples not to tell that he was the Christ, or Messiah, he did not say he was the Son of God.
You keep ignoring the question "Is Jesus Good?" I understand from your perspective that He is not God and that is what you answered me. But that still does not answer my question. "Is Jesus good?" It's just a simple yes or no.
I'd say on balance from the little we know of him, He was pretty basically good, whith a few off days where he was inciting violence and hatred. (If you take the gospels as an accurate account)
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This is called "hyperbole"—a statement of extremes, contrasting love with hate for emphasis’ sake. The Bible often does this (Proverbs 13:24; 29:24). Jesus tells us that the first and greatest Commandment is to love God with all of our heart, soul, and mind (Matthew 22:37,38). As much as we treasure our spouse and family, and even our own life, there should be no one whom we love and value more than God, no one who takes precedence in our life. To place love for another (including ourselves) above God is idolatry.
I'd say on balance from the little we know of him, He was pretty basically good, whith a few off days where he was inciting violence and hatred. (If you take the gospels as an accurate account)
Jesus never incited violence.
With all due respect this seems like Hitchens hyperbole
Just how inspired is it! You can write what you just wrote the first and greatest Commandment is to love God with all of our heart, soul, and mind without resorting to hyperbole.
Were the Miracles Hyperbole. Was the water turned into wine, or did Jesus just get a round of drinks in? Did the Red Sea Split, or did the Egyptian fleet get caught in a storm and have to turn back? Did Jesus in his God-mode slaughter every first born of Egypt, or did a Jewish terrorist group like an ancient Stern Gang, simply kill a few thousand people in the city who hadnt marked their doors to avoid the ethnic cleansing?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
With all due respect this seems like Hitchens hyperbole
Matthew 10:34
'Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth.'
Matthew 10:34
'I have not come to bring peace but a sword.'
Luke 12:49
'I have come to bring fire to the earth.'
Luke 12:49
'And how I wish it were blazing already
Luke 12:51
'Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but hostility!'
Matthew 10:35
'I have come to set son against father...
Matthew 10:35
'...daughter against mother...'
Matthew 10:35
'...and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law
Luke 14:26
'If anyone does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple
As a postscript to this, Jesus has himself tortured and killed in order to save Mankind from his own wrath.:enough!:
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Why did Jesus not correct him but on the contrary bless upon his confession that He was the Christ, Son of the ever living God.
...and why did you select the Matthew version of Peter's answer to this question?
Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mark 8:29 ...And Peter answered and said unto him, You are the Christ.
Luke9:20 ...Peter answering said, The Christ of God
Don't you think that this is important enough of a quote that there should be 100% agreement between the three? Which version is correct? Are any of them accurate? Which have deletions and which have additions? Why would all three not include the most important part - "the Son of the living God"?
You keep ignoring the question "Is Jesus Good?" I understand from your perspective that He is not God and that is what you answered me. But that still does not answer my question. "Is Jesus good?" It's just a simple yes or no.
I know of no sin or error that Jesus commited; however, I am in no position to judge whether any human being (including Jesus) was, is, or will be absolutely good.
Whoever we thank we thank the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.That's the only God we know.
You obviosly aren't from Mississippi because around here Christians say "Thank you, Jesus" or "Lord help me, Jesus".
Did Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, or David have any knowledge of Jesus being God incarnate before he was even born? Did Jesus cast Adam out of the Garden? Did Jesus tell Noah to build the ark? Did Jesus tell Abraham to kill his son? Did Jesus speak to Moses through the burning bush? Did Jesus pray to himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
What about the Holy Spirit? Tell me a single instance where the Holy Spirit spoke to anyone. John 16:13 ...for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak... Now if the Holy Spirit is inferred here, why would he not speak of his own, but what he heard?
The One that Jesus prayed to is none other than the "Father" referred to in the NT, Who is the One God. It is as simple as that.
Originally Posted by john316 View Post
You keep ignoring the question "Is Jesus Good?" I understand from your perspective that He is not God and that is what you answered me. But that still does not answer my question. "Is Jesus good?" It's just a simple yes or no.
It depends how you interpret the word "good". If you speak of morals and piety, then yes, Jesus was certainly a righteous servant of his Lord. I've seen this 'trick question' posed by Christians in the past.
I personally think Jesus was practicing modesty here, if the verse is reliable. One of the major problems Christians have is that they interpret their texts without Guidance; they do not and will not ever know the full context of the sayings and events in the Bible.
It depends how you interpret the word "good". If you speak of morals and piety, then yes, Jesus was certainly a righteous servant of his Lord. I've seen this 'trick question' posed by Christians in the past.
I personally think Jesus was practicing modesty here, if the verse is reliable. One of the major problems Christians have is that they interpret their texts without Guidance; they do not and will not ever know the full context of the sayings and events in the Bible.
Well, actually they get their Guidance from their Clergy, just as Muslims look to the scholars to interprete for them.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
I have not really followed this thread, but I will try to comment briefly.
Yes, I believe that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine.
I suppose whether it 'violates God's oneness' depends on how God defines his oneness ...
We agree that there is only one God.
Do you think it would be outside his ability to be born man, if he so chose?
The dual nature of Jesus is a mystery. I don't think anybody can fully and clearly explain it.
People arrived at the conclusion that Jesus was human and divine by studying the scripture and discussing their findings.
Peace glo,
I'm not questioning the omnipotence of God. An all-powerful God is able to accomplish anything; the Qur'an does not reveal that the Lord cannot incarnate, rather it says that incarnation is contrary to the Majesty of God.
Getting back to my question. Was Jesus (whose physical body was made of flesh, blood and bones) created?
Now I acknowledge your belief that he, as God, was preexistent. But was his physicality uncreated?
With all due respect mimicking Hitchens poor intelectual integrity is a profoundly poor idea, it is very good for selling books, but rarely will it stand up to scrutiney.
Though it is an ad hominem I would mention that it is strange that given this "clear" demonstration of what a violent fellow Jesus was the early Christians were markedly pacefist, in fact Christianity was a fairly non-violence crowed untill it's institutionalization in the Roman and Augustine, even then Christians have rarely interpreted any of these verses as inciting violence, though this is clearly not a logical proof, this should give pause, to say the least, to your claims.
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Matthew 10:34
'Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth.'
The context of this verse, and this contextual meaning is so clear I am suprised you would use it. The verse is saying that he has not come to instill universal tranquility, but is imparting a message that will cause discontent, simply saying you have not come to bring a universal age of tranquility, as the Jews of the time would have expected, is not saying you intend to incur violence, never ONCE in the entire chapter does Jesus EVER command violence.
Matthew 10:34
'I have not come to bring peace but a sword.'
Sword represents the word of God, CLEARLY it is not refering to a physical weapon, hence Christ ordering Peter to put his sword away when the guards seized him.
Luke 12:49
'I have come to bring fire to the earth.'
clensing fire
Luke 12:49
'And how I wish it were blazing already
Luke 12:51
'Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but hostility!'
Matthew 10:35
'I have come to set son against father...
Matthew 10:35
'...daughter against mother...'
Matthew 10:35
'...and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law
Luke 14:26
'If anyone does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple
These are all in the same vein.
With all due respect this is such a rediculous case it is difficult to articulate and simply haveing to refute this non-sense is highly annoying.
As a postscript to this, Jesus has himself tortured and killed in order to save Mankind from his own wrath.:enough!:
Well, actually they get their Guidance from their Clergy, just as Muslims look to the scholars to interprete for them.
But these scholars rely on the interpretation of the companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and their descendants, as well as the great scholars of that time. In addition, the Qur'an gets extra support from hadiths. Christians on the other hand have nothing to rely upon in defense of their anagogy.
But these scholars rely on the interpretation of the companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and their descendants, as well as the great scholars of that time. In addition, the Qur'an gets extra support from hadiths. Christians on the other hand have nothing to rely upon in defense of their anagogy.
Church Fathers
Something of their(or at least the oldest ones) equivalent of Hadiths
WTH, You can interprete the verses as you will, and sure, early christianity hadnt a great deal of violence, although Christianity found plenty to justify its aggression as time marched on.
The New testement is a pretty sound book as regards sending a message of peace. The problem is Jesus is God.
Yahweh/ Jehovah=Jesus.
So the man who played with the children and loved them so much was thirteen hundred years before sending bears to rip them to bits for laughing at Elisha, and one thousand five hundred years before that slaughtering newborns of a entire nation, fivehundred years prior to that wiped out the entire population of the earth bar one family and ten million animals on a boat, then had nearly eight million of them killed in the desert from polar bears to duck-billed platypuses. (Quite a lengthy task for a 600 year old man with just a stone axe).
A full 700 years before this, he was telling a guy on a hill to slaughter his own son to please him. This is apparently Jesus?
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Matthew 16:16-20
, because I find it funny when someone says 'thank the lord' And I think to myself which one? Just like how when hindus say thank god, I'm like which one?
That's the only God we know.
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