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This may sound stupid!
Do christians worship God and Jesus both equally etc?,
or just Jesus on his own? Or do some christians only worship God?
Seriously I don't have a clue!
Well I've seen boards outside churches saying 'Your Lord is Jesus, Come worship him here' it sounded as if worshipping the Creator himself doesn't matter
Also when you 'thank God' do you thank Jesus or God ? the same with other situations
LOL!! yes I saw that some one had already mentioned the math issue on page 3!!
Thanks!
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
And if one does the math equation in words, rather than with symbols, you will see how I think it is better to understand it:format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
One God praised three times (that is, raised to the third power) is still one God.
I don't know how to write in superscript in this forum, but it would be rendered by something like: 1 <sup>3</sup> = 3.
I remain baffled why it makes such a difference having the oneness.
I suppose that because we live in 2008AD and 5000 years ago the idea of having one god in order to stop all the followers of hundreds of gods stabbing each other with spears over "bestest God" was a good one.
Congratulation to the Christians that at least they dont all run about stabbing each other over weather the Holy Ghost is better than Jesus or God. They found much more important things to stab each other for...like just exactly how God gets to jump into the biscuits, or weather it should be called "Jehova" or not. Infinatly more sensible.
But now, outside of Africa and Ulster that dosnt tend to happen, Christians accept the threeness of the oneinity.
As far as I can tell, here are the reasons there is 3 aspects or entities or manifestations.
1) There has to be a God, because failing other infomation it's easiest to default to that idea.
2)There has to be a son of god, because Jesus himself said he was him. Aparrently. Or at least his best mate said he said that when he was in his eighties. (A bit like the octogenarian guy who waves his stick and says when he was in his thirties he was the guy who shot Hitler)
3) Jesus surprised everyone by dying, and that kinda threw the whole God-man thing out of whack. (Gods dont tend to die, unless theyre Pharoh or Hirohito or Achillies or Travasser or Sung or Ill or....you get my drift). He needed to still be about and present on earth, but just in an invisible inaudible intangable unolfactableway, a bit like a ghost, but with non-working superhero powers. This leaves the actual physical jesus avalible to return at some unspecified future point to make the world happy.
Glad you got it all figured out, Barney.
I Did??!!????format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Whoo! Thats been puzzling me for years that one.
Fancy Joining my Agnostic Club?
Even I, a former christian is confuse at all this. So many confusing and contradicting verses in the bible written by people who isnt even a disciple or companion of Jesus. My question is, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is the last Messenger of ALLAH (SWT), why is it that it is difficult for the christians and other denominations to accept this?
Salaam to all!
I think the main reason is that we are warned to beware of false prophets.
Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Well, if you are a genuine Christian then you will find that there is really nothing that Islam or any other faith for that matter can offer you. Here's some scriptures for you to consider.format_quote Originally Posted by Khadijah0529
'Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.'
John 8: 34-36.
'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound.
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans: 6: 1-2
'Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destory the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'I John 3: 7-9
'All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
We know that whosever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.'
I John 5: 17-19
So when you accept Christ he gives you power over your lifestyle (no matter what you were bound with) and you can begin to live a holy, victorious life. There's no lifestyle on earth equal to the one that a Christian can live.
Last edited by mkh4JC; 11-01-2008 at 12:54 AM.
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Do you consider Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) as a false prophet?
I have a theory that I have been formulating for some time now. I started studying the Quran about 4 years ago, I don't hold any value with hadith. Hadith is "history" not supposed to be followed as a message from GOD.
The Holy Spirit- not Gabriel is guiding me.
LOL!! I don't want to get banned my first day!!
The mods and admins are quite tolerant here. I haven't been banned as yet, just got a few hundred posts deleted now and then.
But yeah, I consider the holy spirit as either Gabriel or another angel. Not God in action.
My answer is slightly different than those given above:format_quote Originally Posted by Khadijah0529
As best I understand the message contained in the New Testament regarding Jesus it includes the testimony that he suffered, died, was buried and rose again. Since this is specifically declared to be false by the Qur'an, it becomes impossible to hold to both at the same time. And as I hold the witness of the Christian scriptures to be true, it follows that I cannot accept the teaching of the Qur'an.
Grace- Yes, that is huge. We know by GOD's Holy Scripture and history that Jesus was crucified, but it might be that the verse in the Quran has not been translated correctly!!
Oh, I forgot to add 1x1x1=3 is, 1 to the 3rd power. Is that what you meant?
I don't see how that's possible.format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا
Transliteration: Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
Literal: And their saying: "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, God's messenger, and they have not killed him, and they have not crucified him/placed him on a cross, and but (it) resembled/was vague/was doubtful to them, and that those who disagreed/disputed in (about) him (are) in (E) doubt/suspicion from him, (there is) no knowledge for them with (about) him, except following the assumption , and they have not killed him surely/certainly.
Yusuf_Ali: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Shakir: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
Pickthal: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
Arberry: and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God' -- yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him; they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they slew him not of a certainty -- no indeed;
George_Sale: and have said, verily we have slain Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God; yet they slew him not, neither crucified him, but he was represented by one in his likeness; and verily they who disagreed concerning him, were in a doubt as to this matter, and had no sure knowledge thereof, but followed only an uncertain opinion. They did not really kill him;
Hilali_Khan: And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ):
Malik: They even say: "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah." Whereas in fact, neither did they kill him nor did they crucify him but they thought they did because the matter was made dubious for them. Those who differ therein are only in doubt. They have no real knowledge, they follow nothing but merely a conjecture, certainly they did not kill him (Jesus).
Maulana_Ali: And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for certain:
QXP: And for claiming, "We killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's Messenger." They never killed him and never crucified him. But it appeared so to them and the matter remained dubious to them. Those who hold conflicting views on this issue are indeed confused. They have no real knowledge but they are following mere conjecture. Very certainly, they never killed him.
Sarwar: and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.
Free_Minds: And their saying: "We have killed the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of God!" And they had not murdered him, nor killed him by crucifixion, but it appeared to them as if they had. Those who dispute are in doubt of him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty.
Khalifa: And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
You don't see how what is possible? Follower made two statements, which of those is it that you don't see as possible?format_quote Originally Posted by The Khan
Do christians worship God and Jesus both equally etc?,
or just Jesus on his own? Or do some christians only worship God?
Seriously I don't have a clue!
you are right to ask about this as lots of people are unsure of this and how it supposed to work
To Christians, when you speak of Christ you are speaking of God.format_quote Originally Posted by barrio79
Who are they that say, claim or boast? It is the Jews.format_quote Originally Posted by The Khan
Who killed/crucified Jesus? It appears to all to be the Jews, some say Pontius Pilate, some say the Roman soldiers. GOD crucified Jesus. It was always His plan. GOD sacrificed His WORS that was LAW for us the sinners of the world, past, present and future sinners, me and you!
004.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
When reading the Quran you are given a condensed version of the story. Go back to the earlier scripture to get the full story.
Eventually reading through the Bible story we get to the fact that yes, GOD took Jesus up to be at GOD's right hand.
The Quran has confirmed the GOSPEL!!
005.046
YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
PICKTHAL: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
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