What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

Witness is Shaahid, and martyr is Shaheed.

asalam alaikum wr wb

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

In reading your reply, a thought came to my mind. Those who are knowledgeable of Arabic, isn't "witness" one of the meanings of shaheed in addition to it meaning martyr?

As far as I know, yes it is. Unfortunately, I lost the verse relating to it. Sorry.


When I quoted shahadah as meaning testimony is my last post, I deliberately didn't want to mention that it also means witness until later - just to see Venogopal's response. So as well as meaning martyr and testimony it also means witness and can be understood in which context by simply reading the verse. In the part of verse, '..And hide not testimony' it's clear that the meaning isn't 'witness' as in one who sees. That wouldn't make sense.

Yet the same word also means 'witness' as seen in:

Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 106, the Glorious Qur’an says:

"Oh you who believe!
When death approaches any of you,
(take) witnesses among yourself when making bequests."
[Al-Qur’an 5:106]

(edited: .......Yaaa -'ayyu-hallaziina 'aamanuu shahadatu..........)

@Venugopal

If you still insist that shahadah means 'witness' then please look here at the English definition for 'witness' in it's five senses. It will still be include testification of one's faith.

WITNESS
Pronunciation (US):


• WITNESS (noun)
The noun WITNESS has 5 senses:

1. someone who sees an event and reports what happened
2. a close observer; someone who looks at something (such as an exhibition of some kind)
3. testimony by word or deed to your religious faith
4. (law) a person who attests to the genuineness of a document or signature by adding their own signature
5. (law) a person who testifies under oath in a court of law

Peace.









.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

Thank you. Are the 2 words derived from the same root?

Yes, they do, the word sha-hi-da.

It is defined as (in my arabic-english dictionary):
to witness, see (personally or for oneself), to attend to be present at, to testify, to give evidence, witness, bear witness, to depose, to certify, confirm, authenticate, to witness, testify to, attest to, to betoken, evidence, prove, demonstrate, furnish proof of, serve as evidence of.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah

Surah Al-Bakarah (Chapter Two - Verse 283)

Wa in-kuntum a'laa safarin-wa lam taji-duu kaatiban fari-haanum-maqbuuzah. Fa-'in a-mina ba' zukum ba-zan-fal-yu-'addil-lazi-tuminu ' 'amaanatahuu wal-yatta-qillaha Rabba. Waa laa taktumush-shahaadah; wa many-yaktumhaa fa-'innahuuu 'aa-simun-qalbuh. Wallaahu bimaa ta-'maluuna' Aliim.

Translation:
If you be on a journey and cannot find a scribe, then a pledge in hand (shall suffice). And if one of you entrusts to another let him who is trusted deliver up that which is entrusted to him (according to the pact between them) and let them observe his duty to Allah. Hide not testimony. He who hides it, verily his heart is sinful. Allah is ware of what you do.



Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

The usage of the word ‘testimony’ in this surah and the surah before this clearly indicates that the testifier should be in the know of things first hand. This and the surah before this are spoken of by Allah, if I am correct, with regard to monetary transactions and the need to be clear about it. One, says Allah, should not hide (or fabricate) the testimony because if one does so, then on what basis can the transaction be vouched for? We cannot have a testimony that is not genuine, that comes from our imagination or is fabricated. This is precisely what I have been saying in this thread.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

The statement is, "I bear witness" which means to testify. I used the definition of "bear" to qualify the use of the word witness which you can't seem to connect. So technically if one uses only the word witness, your point is well taken. As a noun witness 1. One who has seen or heard something..., but as a verb witness ... 3. To testify to: to bear witness. The obvious use in the shahada is this definition of the word.

The translators may have made a hash of their job here. The correct phrase would simply have been “I believe” or “I have faith”. May I add here that in my mother tongue (Malayalam), the word for witness is ‘sakshi’. There is also the word ‘manasakshi’ (literally, witness of the heart), which in English is rendered ‘conscience’. Probably the Arabic word is nearer the meaning of ‘conscience’ than ‘witness’.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine

why do we testify that There is no God but Allah, well because there is no God but Allah, if you and I quote, are not asking for proof of Allah, and haven't brought us that which is better to satisfy one both heart and mind, then give it a rest!

To whom are you testifying that there is no god but Allah? To Allah? But why would Allah need your testimony to be convinced of His own existence? To fellow Muslims? But they are themselves testifying, so why would they need to hear your testimony? To the rest of mankind who are not Muslims? Well, that is when one of them, yours truly, wanted to know the competence of the testifier to make such a testimony. Maybe you are testifying to your own self. Then it becomes rhetoric and as invariably happens, we begin to believe in our own rhetoric.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah

If you still insist that shahadah means 'witness' then please look here at the English definition for 'witness' in it's five senses. It will still be include testification of one's faith.

I agree with you if ‘bearing witness’ only means that you are testifying to your religious faith. This means there is no element of direct experience in the Shahada. What is being recited is only a belief, not a fact. No one would, for example, say that he believes that the earth is peopled by humans. He knows it for a fact because he has experienced it. Therefore he would simply say, “The earth is peopled by humans.” But would anyone say, “There are humans living in solar systems far away from our solar system?” He can only say, “I believe there are humans living . . .” Therefore if there is no element of direct experience in the Shahada, the cornerstone of Islam, then the claims about Allah in the Quran are only a belief, a faith and not a fact. This contradicts with what Dr. Zakir Naik, the most famous commentator on Islam, says. He says that “Islam is confirmed, just like 2 + 2 = 4.”

format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

To whom are you testifying that there is no god but Allah? To Allah? But why would Allah need your testimony to be convinced of His own existence? To fellow Muslims? But they are themselves testifying, so why would they need to hear your testimony? To the rest of mankind who are not Muslims? Well, that is when one of them, yours truly, wanted to know the competence of the testifier to make such a testimony. Maybe you are testifying to your own self. Then it becomes rhetoric and as invariably happens, we begin to believe in our own rhetoric.

I don't see how testfying to Allah swt that I bear witness that there are no Gods beside him supports his existence? care to eleborate on that? It is my own covenant with Allah swt.. that is one of the major tenets of Islam, it is as if questioning why do we pray, or fast, or give Alms.. people can sit there and speak of the moral/social and health benefits of each, but the fact of the matter is and remains, this is what we are asked to do by Allah swt a part of his commandments... once you have determined something is true in part, then you'll have to expect that it is true in whole-- 3+X=4 there can only be one answer for X once you have satisfied in your heart and mind that this is the true religion, you'll have to pledge that you'll uphold its tenets..
No different than taking an oath after graduating medical school, to uphold the best of your ability not only the clinical but the ethical aspects that come from having consecrated yourself to that field of study..

and that covers everything, up to and including what to many appears utterly non-sensical..
ex.
If I am to perform a surgical procedure on a patient.. I am to scrub with betadine before hand.. I need to scrub a total of 30 times each finger on all its four planes work my way to the elbow.. one might question why not 28, or 25 or 32? considering I still need to glove afterwards? You'll never be satisfied with the answer.. this is simply the protocol to follow before you are let anywhere near a patient!


as for believing ones own rhetoric.. isn't that in a way what you are doing here? posing a non-question and expecting that it should make sense to everyone else?

on a separate note... I speak Arabic fluently .. and Ash'had, is indeed, 'I attest'.. there is no deviation of the terms to suit the desires of paganists.. Islam is uncorrupted, and it shall so remain insha'Allah, until such a time when Allah swt sees it fit to remove it from this world!

cheers

[QUOTE]

format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

I agree with you if ‘bearing witness’ only means that you are testifying to your religious faith. This means there is no element of direct experience in the Shahada. What is being recited is only a belief, not a fact.

Well of course it means testifying to belief. Did a single muslim ever claim to have seen God? If that was so, don't you think Islamic texts would have been full of descriptions of Him? But you won't find even a mere hint. And since when does belief in something negate the fact that it exists? It only doesn't exist in your perception. That doesn't make you right.

Therefore if there is no element of direct experience in the Shahada, the cornerstone of Islam, then the claims about Allah in the Quran are only a belief, a faith and not a fact. This contradicts with what Dr. Zakir Naik, the most famous commentator on Islam, says. He says that “Islam is confirmed, just like 2 + 2 = 4.”

If facts were based on direct experience then, why have you accepted the fact that I exist without seeing me? You noted responsive characteristics that only a human can transmit and knew that you are engaging with a person and not some bot designed to response to a sequence of words and phrases. You knew from signs, not from direct experience. Therefore the absence of direct experience does not negate the fact that I exist.


Claims about Allah in the Quran...

If you wrote an autobiography, you wouldn't base it on beliefs about yourself, but facts. Since God is the Author of the Quran, the claims in the Quran are facts, not someone else's beliefs. His signs confirm His existence. Amongst His signs is the scientific content in the Quran. The accuracy of scientific facts which scientists have agreed upon, could not have come from man, since man had no knowledge of them at the time. If a man had produced a Book over 1400 years ago, stating scientific details, then at least a few of those details would have been disproved. Yet none has! Therefore the Quran can be trusted and followed as the Divine Book of Allah.


In fact, it is Hinduism that is based on beliefs and not facts. It's origins unknown. There are only suggestions that they were written by Brahmin priests sometime between 1500 and 1200 B.C

According to the Brhadāranyaka Upanishad the Vedas was transmitted by Brahma breathing it out.

As clouds of smoke billow from a fire lit with damp fuel, so indeed this Immense Being has exhaled all this: Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sāma Veda, the Atharva-Āngirasa, histories, ancient tales, sciences, hidden teachings (Upanishads), verses, aphorisms, explanations, and glosses – it is that Immense Being who has exhaled all this (2.4.10).

Who saw Brahma breathing out the Vedas? It is just your belief. You can't prove it. The Vedas also states earth is static. The claim is then verified in the Rig Vedas by stating that the sun moves around the earth.

The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)

Sun is full of light and knows all the human beings, so his horses take him to sky to look at the world” (Rig Ved 1/50/1)

Surely a god would know better than that? I sincerely suggest you use logic to research the so called facts of your religion instead of blindly following what your parents have taught you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah

Well of course it means testifying to belief. Did a single muslim ever claiming to have seen God? If that was so, don't you think Islamic texts would have been full of descriptions of Him? But you won't find even a mere hint. And since when does belief in something negate the fact that it exists? It only doesn't exist in your perception. That doesn't make you right.




If facts were based on direct experience then, why have you accepted the fact that I exist without seeing me? You noted responsive characteristics that only a human can transmit and knew that you are engaging with a person and not some bot designed to response to a sequence of words and phrases. You knew from signs, not from direct experience. Therefore the absence of direct experience does not negate the fact that I exist.


Claims about Allah in the Quran...

If you wrote an autobiography, you wouldn't base it on beliefs about yourself, but facts. Since God is the Author of the Quran, the claims in the Quran are facts, not someone else's beliefs. His signs confirm His existence. Amongst His signs is the scientific content in the Quran. The accuracy of scientific facts which scientists have agreed upon, could not have come from man, since man had no knowledge of them at the time. If a man had produced a Book over 1400 years ago, stating scientific details, then at least a few of those details would have been disproved. Yet none has! Therefore the Quran can be trusted and followed as the Divine Book of Allah.


In fact, it is Hinduism that is based on beliefs and not facts. It's origins unknown. There are only suggestions that they were written by Brahmin priests sometime between 1500 and 1200 B.C

According to the Brhadāranyaka Upanishad the Vedas was transmitted by Brahma breathing it out.



Who saw Brahma breathing out the Vedas? It is just your belief. You can't prove it. The Vedas also states earth is static. The claim is then verified in the Rig Vedas by stating that the sun moves around the earth.



Surely a god would know better than that? I sincerely suggest you use logic to research the so called facts of your religion instead of blindly following what your parents have taught you.

Masha'Allah what a brilliant post.. I didn't really take the time to read all the replies to this fellow on this thread.. I certainly appreciate yours it is pithy and very to the point...

Baraka Allah feeki

[QUOTE=Scents of Jannah;960359]

Well of course it means testifying to belief. Did a single muslim ever claiming to have seen God? If that was so, don't you think Islamic texts would have been full of descriptions of Him? But you won't find even a mere hint.

I think you have touched on the core of the lack (as I see it) in Islam. Not a single Muslim, as you say, has ever claimed to have seen God. This is inevitable because Islam believes that God the Creator is separate from his creation. This is not the case in Hinduism. Hinduism at its core espouses the fact that the Creator and his creation are not separate. Therefore in Islam the destiny of man is to be a slave of Allah whereas in Hinduism man’s destiny is to discover the divine in him. Hinduism is full of descriptions of God because Hindus who have realized the divine have the freedom to express the divine in various ways. In Islam the question of expressing the divine does not arise, there is only praise of Allah, who created man to test his loyalty.
[QUOTE=Scents of Jannah;960359]

And since when does belief in something negate the fact that it exists? It only doesn't exist in your perception. That doesn't make you right.

Once you know that something exists, then belief becomes redundant. (Having faith in something or someone you know exists in another matter.)
[QUOTE=Scents of Jannah;960359]

If facts were based on direct experience then, why have you accepted the fact that I exist without seeing me? You noted responsive characteristics that only a human can transmit and knew that you are engaging with a person and not some bot designed to response to a sequence of words and phrases. You knew from signs, not from direct experience. Therefore the absence of direct experience does not negate the fact that I exist.

For the simple reason, to the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of anything except a human who can respond like a human. I know you very much exist as a human just like me and therefore I strive to be very careful not to hurt your sensitivity while at the same time trying to get across my feelings anyhow. These are all in the realm of direct experience. But if you claim that you are corresponding to me from planet Saturn, I would simply call your bluff. [QUOTE=Scents of Jannah;960359]

Claims about Allah in the Quran...If you wrote an autobiography, you wouldn't base it on beliefs about yourself, but facts. Since God is the Author of the Quran, the claims in the Quran are facts, not someone else's beliefs. His signs confirm His existence. Amongst His signs is the scientific content in the Quran. The accuracy of scientific facts which scientists have agreed upon, could not have come from man, since man had no knowledge of them at the time. If a man had produced a Book over 1400 years ago, stating scientific details, then at least a few of those details would have been disproved. Yet none has! Therefore the Quran can be trusted and followed as the Divine Book of Allah. In fact, it is Hinduism that is based on beliefs and not facts. It's origins unknown. There are only suggestions that they were written by Brahmin priests sometime between 1500 and 1200 B.C According to the Brhadāranyaka Upanishad the Vedas was transmitted by Brahma breathing it out. Who saw Brahma breathing out the Vedas? It is just your belief. You can't prove it.

Hinduism is based on the expressions of experiences of man. Hinduism does not claim that its scriptures are written by a God sitting in heaven and sent as guidance for mankind.

[QUOTE=Scents of Jannah;960359]

The Vedas also states earth is static. The claim is then verified in the Rig Vedas by stating that the sun moves around the earth. Surely a god would know better than that? I sincerely suggest you use logic to research the so called facts of your religion instead of blindly following what your parents have taught you.

Unlike the Quran, most of the Hindu scriptures are in the form of poetry, including the Vedas. Hindus have always known that much of it is not to be taken merely literally but the spirit behind the expressions is to be grasped. Quran, on the other hand, has to be taken literally. Events like the splitting of the moon, the flowing of water from the fingers Mohammad and his satisfying the thirst of a whole army with that water, and the grieving of the dry wooden pole–against which the Prophet used to lean while delivering sermons–because of its separation from him, and its being heard by a whole congregation etc. are taken literally by Muslims and consider them miracles.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine

I don't see how testfying to Allah swt that I bear witness that there are no Gods beside him supports his existence? care to eleborate on that? It is my own covenant with Allah swt.. that is one of the major tenets of Islam, it is as if questioning why do we pray, or fast, or give Alms.. people can sit there and speak of the moral/social and health benefits of each, but the fact of the matter is and remains, this is what we are asked to do by Allah swt a part of his commandments... once you have determined something is true in part, then you'll have to expect that it is true in whole-- 3+X=4 there can only be one answer for X once you have satisfied in your heart and mind that this is the true religion, you'll have to pledge that you'll uphold its tenets..
No different than taking an oath after graduating medical school, to uphold the best of your ability not only the clinical but the ethical aspects that come from having consecrated yourself to that field of study..

and that covers everything, up to and including what to many appears utterly non-sensical..
ex.
If I am to perform a surgical procedure on a patient.. I am to scrub with betadine before hand.. I need to scrub a total of 30 times each finger on all its four planes work my way to the elbow.. one might question why not 28, or 25 or 32? considering I still need to glove afterwards? You'll never be satisfied with the answer.. this is simply the protocol to follow before you are let anywhere near a patient!


as for believing ones own rhetoric.. isn't that in a way what you are doing here? posing a non-question and expecting that it should make sense to everyone else?

on a separate note... I speak Arabic fluently .. and Ash'had, is indeed, 'I attest'.. there is no deviation of the terms to suit the desires of paganists.. Islam is uncorrupted, and it shall so remain insha'Allah, until such a time when Allah swt sees it fit to remove it from this world!

cheers

You have not answered my question. To whom are you testifying when you recite the Shahada?

format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

You have not answered my question. To whom are you testifying when you recite the Shahada?

perhaps you have a reading impediment?

Let's ask you this to spare repeating myself..
To whom and why are you testfying, when you get a marriage certificate?
Does 'your love' require a ceremony, a piece of paper and witnesses?

If a declaration of love, denotes only that two people simply love each other, then why do the majority of moral folks go through the trouble of getting married as opposed to just living together and having b*****d children?

format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine

perhaps you have a reading impediment?

Let's ask you this to spare repeating myself..
To whom and why are you testfying, when you get a marriage certificate?
Does 'your love' require a ceremony, a piece of paper and witnesses?

If a declaration of love, denotes only that two people simply love each other, then why do the majority of moral folks go through the trouble of getting married as opposed to just living together and having b*****d children?

Perhaps you have a problem in answering questions directly. I ask again, whom are you testifying to when you pronounce the Shahada?

format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

Perhaps you have a problem in answering questions directly. I ask again, whom are you testifying to when you pronounce the Shahada?

I am starting to get a little annoyed of your prosaic style...
I responded above!