Hey guys, recently I was wondering about this and am looking for your opinions ( or references from the Quran). Let me start, when I see.. lets say a Hindu who says they feel one with God. I am absolutely unsure about what to think here. Allah has specifically forbidden paganism and yet here who is claiming to have a strong connection with him. I often regard these people with a mix of amusement and annoyance. They sit down with lies and smile at us and say " to each his own religion". I wondered if they would really tell Allah... " O I thought I could choose whichever I wanted as long as I felt that "connection".
What am I supposed to think about Jews, Christians, Hindus etc who claim that they have a bond with Allah when their very beliefs and ways of life contradict his prescribed ones?
I'm glad you've asked this question. It shows that you understand that other people can hold a deeply contradictory belief system to your own and believe it sincerely.
Hey guys, recently I was wondering about this and am looking for your opinions ( or references from the Quran). Let me start, when I see.. lets say a Hindu who says they feel one with God. I am absolutely unsure about what to think here. Allah has specifically forbidden paganism and yet here who is claiming to have a strong connection with him. I often regard these people with a mix of amusement and annoyance. They sit down with lies and smile at us and say " to each his own religion". I wondered if they would really tell Allah... " O I thought I could choose whichever I wanted as long as I felt that "connection".
What am I supposed to think about Jews, Christians, Hindus etc who claim that they have a bond with Allah when their very beliefs and ways of life contradict his prescribed ones?
Allah gives the answer:
Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight. Qur’an 18:103-105
As you can see, they maybe happy with what they have, but that doesn’t make them right at all. Plus, if we analyze the Hindu scriptures carefully, or the Christian Bible, you will clearly see that the followers of these religions are not really “following” the teachings prescribed in their own ‘books of authority’, almost 90% of their practices are based on traditional beliefs and not on “God’s alleged books”.
Hope this answers your question and make sense insh a Allah.
Plus, if we analyze the Hindu scriptures carefully, or the Christian Bible, you will clearly see that the followers of these religions are not really “following” the teachings prescribed in their own ‘books of authority’, almost 90% of their practices are based on traditional beliefs and not on “God’s alleged books”.
Be careful making statements like that:
1) Be careful, I might ask you to defend your "90%" figure. Are you well enough aware of all the practices of those your are referring to so that you can number them off in order to do that math you have proposed? Are you so familiar with "God's alleged books" so that you know which of these practices are based on them and which are based on "traditional beliefs". Have you factored in the very real possibility that many "traditional beliefs" may have become traditions incorporating practices originally based on "God's alleged books", so that practices based on those "traditional beliefs" are also in fact historically based on "God's alleged books"?
2) It is a common for all people to have practices based simply on how they were raised. Why for instance, do Americans drive on the right side of the road and the British drive on the left? Muslims, no less than other people, have many such practices that are just traditions they have probably never even thought about. Be careful, in casting dispersions on the practices of Hindus and Christians, you might just be throwing stones in a glass house.
3) Gross generalizations and stereotypes tend to tell us relatively little about flesh and blood human beings. It is tempting to see people who are different from us as somehow inferior as well. But, be careful, that type of building one's self up by putting others down is, in the long run, actually more demeaning to the character of the person who does the belittling of others based on preconcieved prejudices than to anyone else.
Hey guys, recently I was wondering about this and am looking for your opinions ( or references from the Quran). Let me start, when I see.. lets say a Hindu who says they feel one with God. I am absolutely unsure about what to think here. Allah has specifically forbidden paganism and yet here who is claiming to have a strong connection with him. I often regard these people with a mix of amusement and annoyance. They sit down with lies and smile at us and say " to each his own religion". I wondered if they would really tell Allah... " O I thought I could choose whichever I wanted as long as I felt that "connection".
What am I supposed to think about Jews, Christians, Hindus etc who claim that they have a bond with Allah when their very beliefs and ways of life contradict his prescribed ones?
One is still able to have a connection with Allah. The religion is merely the path towards God. It's like a mobile phone connection; Allah is the thing being called but you can use different networks (or religions) to contact Him.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
One is still able to have a connection with Allah. The religion is merely the path towards God. It's like a mobile phone connection; Allah is the thing being called but you can use different networks (or religions) to contact Him.
That is a very open-minded approach. One I tend to hold as well.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
One is still able to have a connection with Allah. The religion is merely the path towards God. It's like a mobile phone connection; Allah is the thing being called but you can use different networks (or religions) to contact Him.
Hmmmmm. I agree with Keltoi, you show great acceptance of others with such a viewpoint. I think that is the first time I've heard such a view expressed so straightforwardly on this board. Would you mind fleshing it out a little more. For instance, how does the attitude you expressed relate to the view generally expressed by other Muslims here that Christians (for just one example) commit shirk in their worship of Jesus?
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 08-21-2008 at 08:43 PM.
Perhaps aamirsaab sees it as I do, which is that seeking a relationship with God is seeking a relationship with God. The different ways we go about it may be in disagreement, to say the least, but the seeking of God is still there and is very important.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
.... Would you mind fleshing it out a little more. For instance, how does the attitude you expressed relate to the view generally expressed by other Muslims here that Christians (for just one example) commit shirk in their worship of Jesus?
Whilst I believe they are committing shirk (by worshipping Jesus), they still have a connection to God, ultimately. One of the things that made me realise this was actually reading some of Glo's and Eric H's posts on this forum; some of their replies indicate that they have/had felt a connection with God in a similar manner to the connection I myself have/had. After some further thought on religion and the concept of God throughout history (as Avar Allah Noor stated; people were worshipping Allah long before Islam came to this world) I came to the conclusion that God's presence can be (and is) felt by anyone. The religion is really just the methodology of (or the map one uses when) obeying Allah
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Perhaps aamirsaab sees it as I do, which is that seeking a relationship with God is seeking a relationship with God. The different ways we go about it may be in disagreement, to say the least, but the seeking of God is still there and is very important.
That's pretty much the core of it. Personally I believe that Islam is the best way to connect with God but not everyone sees Islam in the same light as I do so they choose a different path; one that they understand (not neccessarily better or worse - just different)
Last edited by aamirsaab; 08-22-2008 at 10:52 AM.
Reason: whoops, got his name wrong :p.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Yes I am careful, and what I said is just obvious, you may go to Philippines, Mexico, Egypt, Italy, UK, India, Hong Kong and China etc and at the same times, study the religions/Scriptures of those nations and you can easily figure out that they are not really following their scriptures, but rather traditions.
Are you well enough aware of all the practices of those your are referring to so that you can number them off in order to do that math you have proposed?
Yes I am.
Are you so familiar with "God's alleged books" so that you know which of these practices are based on them and which are based on "traditional beliefs".
Yes I am very well aware of the Bible, Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Ramayana, Gitas and many other Scriptures.
Have you factored in the very real possibility that many "traditional beliefs" may have become traditions incorporating practices originally based on "God's alleged books", so that practices based on those "traditional beliefs" are also in fact historically based on "God's alleged books"?
I know the differences already, since I have spent quite sometimes in studying those scriptures, lived with Christians, married from them, attended their mass and Bible classes, and many more...
It is a common for all people to have practices based simply on how they were raised. Why for instance, do Americans drive on the right side of the road and the British drive on the left? Muslims, no less than other people, have many such practices that are just traditions they have probably never even thought about. Be careful, in casting dispersions on the practices of Hindus and Christians, you might just be throwing stones in a glass house.
I am not against traditions of other nations; I am only speaking of those traditions that go against the religion or religious scriptures. Like for example, the Catholic Christians in Philippines do worship a little image called “Santo Nino”/ “Baby saint” , referring to Jesus when he was a child, every year on a particular day, they hold that image of Santo Nino and walk around in the street praising this little child, bow down to him, touch him etc and at the end of the day they take the image to the Church and start praying to him all night. If you can show me where does the Bible encourage such practices, I will really appreciate it.
And I do agree with you, that even some Muslims go against the teaching of the Qur’an by their traditional practices, in which we also point out their faults and try hard to educate them.
Gross generalizations and stereotypes tend to tell us relatively little about flesh and blood human beings. It is tempting to see people who are different from us as somehow inferior as well. But, be careful, that type of building one's self up by putting others down is, in the long run, actually more demeaning to the character of the person who does the belittling of others based on preconcieved prejudices than to anyone else.
I am not putting anyone down here and sorry if I offended you by speaking the truth, but this is what I’ve observed during my course of study and by experience during traveling and communicating with people from different faiths.
One is still able to have a connection with Allah. The religion is merely the path towards God. It's like a mobile phone connection; Allah is the thing being called but you can use different networks (or religions) to contact Him.
I agree completely. Of course, to have the greatest connection you must use the network that Allah wants you to use which is the root of where we differ. That doesn't stop me from having a great deal of respect for people like glo and Eric H as well as Keltoi and Grace Seeker who are quite clearly very sincere in their approach towards Allah. To mistreat somebody because of their sincere beliefs is the height of stupidity.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
Most Kuffar in the west are not seeking god. Less than 8% of Britons attend church They simply deny "his" existance, and based on this, dont think once a year about "him".
To assume that Kuffar have the same levels of active practicement of their religion as Muslims is a mistake.
So whats the attitude to such Kuffar?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Most Kuffar in the west are not seeking god. Less than 8% of Britons attend church They simply deny "his" existance, and based on this, dont think once a year about "him".
To assume that Kuffar have the same levels of active practicement of their religion as Muslims is a mistake.
So whats the attitude to such Kuffar?
We should regard them as opportunities for Da'wah which can earn us some serious reward 'up there'.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
there were people who didn't accept Islam, including his uncle.
I thought It was the Prophets uncle, who explained to Mohammed that the "visitation" in the cave was Gabrial?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
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