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How do we know that the Koran is true?

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    How do we know that the Koran is true? (OP)


    Bs'd

    How do we know that the Koran is true, and not the Jewish or Christian Bible, or the book of Mormon, or whatever other holy book of any religion?

    Thanks,

    Gold.

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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    This assumes that God is also not desiring to deceive people. What if God did desire to deceive people, then might he not write a book filled with errors or half truths? Or do you contend that God would never try to deceive people into believing something was true that was not in fact true?
    Why would God fill a scripture with errors? He can give responsibility to an ummah, and ummah may not be able to fulfill the responsibility to protect scripture, but this is not God filling scripture with errors.

    Some Christians said to me that saving Jesus(pbuh) was deception too as in the Quran, but to quietly save a life of a person and filling scripture with errors on purpose are two completely different things.
    How do we know that the Koran is true?

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Why would God fill a scripture with errors?
    I didn't say that God did. But Dawud_uk left attempted to provide an analysis of what God must have done, which was only valid if we presuppose that God is not one to deceive us. I hardly think that God would intentionally deceive either. But I didn't want to make that assumption on Dawud's behalf, and was hoping that he might speak for himself on the matter.

    But since he is not here, what do you say. Would God intentionally deceive people?

    Notice I did not ask just about the book that God would give to people, but about God's character as to whether we could trust not just the book he might give us, but any other acts that God might do as well to be equally non-deceptive.
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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    Well, I gave you my answer that God would not purposely fill errors a scripture. But it is possible God can deceive as a punishment. What you make of following verse in the bible?

    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-12&version=9;
    How do we know that the Koran is true?

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Well, I gave you my answer that God would not purposely fill errors a scripture. But it is possible God can deceive as a punishment. What you make of following verse in the bible?
    I see your point. I had not considered that before. Seems out of character from what I know about God as revealed in the rest of scripture, but it is very plain that God is actually causing people to believe a lie, albiet as punishment for refusing to believe the truth, but still God brings this on them as a divine act in their lives. Very interesting.
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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    I see your point. I had not considered that before. Seems out of character from what I know about God as revealed in the rest of scripture, but it is very plain that God is actually causing people to believe a lie, albiet as punishment for refusing to believe the truth, but still God brings this on them as a divine act in their lives. Very interesting.
    Forgive me if I've missed something simple here but if they weren't believing the truth then they were already believing a lie before God 'punished' them with it.
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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Azy View Post
    Forgive me if I've missed something simple here but if they weren't believing the truth then they were already believing a lie before God 'punished' them with it.
    In the passage that Chuck referenced, the punishment was to give them over to that lie they were believing so that they are now prevented from finding the truth even if they were to decide the wanted to. In other words, since they loved the lie, let them live and die in it. God doesn't cause them to love the lie initially, but eventually does condemn them to it for perpetuity.
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    Re: How do we know that the Koran is true?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    In the passage that Chuck referenced, the punishment was to give them over to that lie they were believing so that they are now prevented from finding the truth even if they were to decide the wanted to. In other words, since they loved the lie, let them live and die in it. God doesn't cause them to love the lie initially, but eventually does condemn them to it for perpetuity.
    Just a Correction: it doesn't say God won't guide them again if they repent and want to find the truth. It just says that Gods make them go deeper as a punishment and their lies become true to them. My be not the best explanation but you may get my point.

    Similar passage is in the Quran chapter 2:
    002.008

    Muhsin Khan: And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.

    Yusuf Ali: Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

    Sahih International: And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.



    002.009

    Muhsin Khan: They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

    Yusuf Ali: Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

    Sahih International: They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.



    002.010

    Muhsin Khan: In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.

    Yusuf Ali: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

    Sahih International: In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.



    002.011

    Muhsin Khan: And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers."

    Yusuf Ali: When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

    Sahih International: And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."



    002.012

    Muhsin Khan: Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.

    Yusuf Ali: Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

    Sahih International: Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.



    002.013

    Muhsin Khan: And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad Peace be upon him , Al-Ansar and Al-Muhajirun) have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not.

    Yusuf Ali: When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

    Sahih International: And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.



    002.014

    Muhsin Khan: And when they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe," but when they are alone with their Shayatin (devils - polytheists, hypocrites, etc.), they say: "Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking."

    Yusuf Ali: When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

    Sahih International: And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers."



    002.015

    Muhsin Khan: Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings to wander blindly.

    Yusuf Ali: Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

    Sahih International: [But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly.



    002.016

    Muhsin Khan: These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.

    Yusuf Ali: These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,

    Sahih International: Those are the ones who have purchased error [in exchange] for guidance, so their transaction has brought no profit, nor were they guided.



    002.017

    Muhsin Khan: Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindled a fire; then, when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness. (So) they could not see.

    Yusuf Ali: Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.

    Sahih International: Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.
    Last edited by Chuck; 03-10-2009 at 12:12 PM.
    How do we know that the Koran is true?

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

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