A recent comprehensive study concluded that there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur'an, but that Christianity and Islamic tradition are incompatible. I read it and I believe it. The study is called Brothers Kept Apart, and it can be partially read on-line at Amazon and Barnes & Noble. It is also available as an e-book for $6 from iUniverse.com
From my previous discussions here, I have found that so few Muslims will read the Bible, yet they continue to criticize their interpretation of Christian tradition. Similarly, few Christians will actually read the Qur’an, but will criticize their interpretation of Islamic tradition.
I have examined the author’s claims and have found that even the most contentious verses in the Qur’an can be interpreted in a way that is consistent with the Bible, the rest of the Qur’an, and the historical record, yet, for whatever reason, Islamic tradition interprets them in a contentious way. This is similar for Christian tradition’s interpretation of the Bible.
It seems that Christians and Muslims are brothers who have been unnecessarily kept apart for the past 1,300 years by their religious leaders.
You have simply misunderstood the post. You quoted a verse that was specific to Mohammed and gave it a shocking interpretation that was completely unsupported by the verse. I merely explained that it was this type of behavior that has kept Christians and Muslims apart for the past 1,300 years. What behavior? The Christian and Muslim behavior of promoting their religious traditions that are unsupported by their principal texts.
Your Islamic traditional teaching that “Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.” cannot be supported by any interpretation of the verse that you quoted unless you severely damage the verse’ integrity.
Was Mohammed’s message of forsaking idols and submitting to the One and Only God, who is identified as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Of course this message is for all of mankind. But let us try to separate the truth of the Qur’an from the Islamic traditions that are not supported by the Qur’an and which constitute a barrier to other persons who also submit to this God.
Regards.
Grenville, again you have responded by stating jsut your opinions and asserting that what you call "the traditional" view of Islam is wrong.
Please address my points and the verses I quoted and maybe this will go somewhere. Your opinions on what Islam is supposed to be are irrelevant unless you support them with proof.
So Grenville bring your proof and I'll bring mine and may Allah forgive the one who is distorting Islam here.
I thought that we had dealt with these things already. There are Islamic traditions that not supported by the Qur'an. However, once they do not contradict the Qur'an or conflict with other established information, then we do not have a problem. The same is true for Christian traditions.
There are Islamic traditions that are not supported by the Qur'an but conflict with established information. This is a problem. The Islamic traditions that actually contradict the Qur'an are an even bigger problem.
The Islamic tradition that the Bible has been corrupted is not supported by the Qur'an and conflicts with established information. Further, it also appears to conflict with the Qur'an.
I have already sufficient proof on a previous thread. If you wish, I can try to ressurect that thread, or you can simply provide explicit and clear evidence from the Qur'an stating that the Bible or any bok contained in the Bible was corrupted.
I have examined the author’s claims and have found that even the most contentious verses in the Qur’an can be interpreted in a way that is consistent with the Bible, the rest of the Qur’an, and the historical record.
Greetings,
Let's reset the subject ........
The Book is available online partly ,..but let me tell you what I guessed to be the basic points of the book:
1-The God of the New Testament is the same God of the Quran.
2-Mohamed(pbuh) is a prophet for Arabs only.
3-The bible and Quran teachings about the nature of Jesus are the same.
4- The Quran only criticizing unorthodox trinity (father,mother,son).
5-Both the Bible and Quran teach that Jesus Got crucified.
6-Both the Bible and Quran teach that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
7-The Bible and the Quran teach the same regarding salvation.
8-Both The bible and Quran view Jesus as the promised Jewish MEssiah.
9- the Bible has been corrupted is not supported by the Qur'an .
Is that true, my guessing?
If so ,I would say I disagree with such views and would like to begin refuting the lines point by point and in details......
I just need your comment, Did I get the summary of the book right?
Your guesses are not entirely correct. Please visit your local library, examine the evidence provided, and then let us discuss where we disagree in order that we may arrive at the truth. If it will take more than US$6 to do that, then you can simply download the e-book.
Your guesses are not entirely correct. Please visit your local library, examine the evidence provided, and then let us discuss where we disagree in order that we may arrive at the truth. If it will take more than US$6 to do that, then you can simply download the e-book.
Regards,
Grenville
Grenville, help us out and give the evidence you have in favor of your views and please summarize them so we can go at this again.
You wrote
"If you say the Quran and Bible are incompatiable how can there be harmony between the two? Incompatiable means :two things that don't go together."
Please note that this is incorrect. There is harmony between the Bible and the Qur'an but disharmony between Christian and Islamic religious tradition. If you really want to understand the principal reasons for the incompatibility, then please read the Audacity of Hope article at BrothersKeptApart.com
Ok AKK:
Before we start, please let me know if you agree with the Audacity of Hope article referred to above. It is the audacity of hoping that there can be any reconciliation between these brothers who have been kept apart by their respective religious leaders for the past 1,300 years or so.
As an aside, the book should be in 5,000 libraries world wide. If it is not in your local one, then please provide a link and I will ensure that they also receive a copy.
Grenville
Christians and Muslims claim to serve the same God.No we Serve God only you serve His messanger
Can these brothers, who have been kept apart for far too long, be reconciled before that time? no we are not brothers we are All sons of Adam and creations of God but Christians left the brotherhood once they started worshiping Jesus pbuh
The message was that the Ishmaelites should reject their idols and submit to the One God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who was the God of the Jews and the Christians. DONT FORGET THE GOD OF MOSES AND JESUS TOO THE SAME GOD ALL PROPHETS WORSHIPED and to all mankind not only Ishmaelites
return to the religion of Abraham, and worship the One God, Yes to return to the true religion of God
who is identified as the one God of Abraham, the Jews and the Christians; NO Christians worship Jesus and not only God
believe God’s revelation sent to the Old Testament prophets, and recorded in the Gospel; And sent to the Prophet Jesus the Gospel btw The revealed books from Allah are: the Torah (Tawrah), the Psalms (Zabur), the Gospel (Injeel) and the Qur’an. The Qur’an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)1, as the final book of Guidance. Among all these books, it is only the Qur’an that remains unchanged, in its original revealed form.
believe in the Messiah Jesus, who was born of the virgin Mary; YES AND Believe in that he was a Prophet/Messanger of God and only a Prophet/Messanger not divine nor is he God
believe that there is a resurrection and a judgment where everyone’s eternal future would be determined; Yes God well bring us back to be Judge not Jesus, God will
believe that the Holy Sprit was sent to strengthen and guide believers; Holy spirit being who God? NO NO AND NO again Ruh-ul-Qudus [Gabriel] so if he is saying the Holy spirit is God NO OUR PROPHET DIDNT TEACH THAT
reject the ways of satan; and YES
avoid the penalty of eternal hell fire. YES PS
Since the creation of the first human, Allah has revealed His guidance to mankind by sending prophets, who all called to the belief of One God. The prophets who received books from Allah are called messengers. Whenever the teachings of a prophet were distorted by people Allah sent another prophet to bring human beings back to the Straight Path. The chain of Risalah began with Adam, included Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and Jesus, and ended with Muhammad (peace be upon them all), as the final messenger of Allah to all of mankind.
SO Islam was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form
Allah is the Creator of all that's is in the heavens and the earth. Allah is the True and only Creator, and only He deserves to be worshipped. nothing else is worthy of worship;Not A PROPHET(i.g Jesus,Muhammad peace be upon them), not stones, statues, crosses, the sun , the moon, star, temples, animals, saints, priest, movie stars, football stars, or religious people. All of those are created beings and worshiping them is associate partners with Allah and this is the only sin which wont be forgiven on the day of judgment and will condemn a man or women to hell forever.
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
After reading the reasons why you claim to have disagreed with the article, I can only conclude that you really do not disagree with the article at all. You are simply arguing with yourself. Your response is typical of why Christians and Muslims remain kept apart.
Can you please just take a look at the evidence which shows that both the Bible and the Qur'an are correct?
After reading the reasons why you claim to have disagreed with the article, I can only conclude that you really do not disagree with the article at all. You are simply arguing with yourself. Your response is typical of why Christians and Muslims remain kept apart.
Can you please just take a look at the evidence which shows that both the Bible and the Qur'an are correct?
Regards,
Grenville
Grenville, do me a big favor plz and make a list of the most compelling reasons of why you think you are correct.
We can go on from your points then. Unless of course, you feel that your points are not strong enough to withstand a check.
After reading the reasons why you claim to have disagreed with the article, I can only conclude that you really do not disagree with the article at all.
NO NO I really really disagree with it be sure of that i disagree 100% no ifs ands or buts
format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville
You are simply arguing with yourself. Your response is typical of why Christians and Muslims remain kept apart.
WE are apart because Christians follow manmade religion not the religion of GOD
format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville
Can you please just take a look at the evidence which shows that both the Bible and the Qur'an are correct?
Regards,
Grenville
they cant be both correct for one says worship Jesus(Bible) other says GOD (Quran) dont matter how you look at it as Jesus being God or All 3 are one it dont matter it is wrong and NOT IN QURAN OR THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM one book has 100s and 100s of contradictions (Bible) OTHER has 0 contradiction (Quran) Is God perfect then his words should be as well so in short the whole bible is not worth one verse in the Quran. one is the words of Matthew luke john job etc the (bible) the other is the word OF GOD (Quran) so dont misunderstand me Christians AND Muslims are not brothers are not togeather cant be wont be unless the Christians submit to God none have the right to be Worshiped but God the one and Only no his Prophets (i.g. Jesus )
Regards
ME
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
OK, I will do so. However, as previously mentioned, can you please let me know if you agree with the Audacity of Hope article referred to previously.
Please note that we will be examining the Bible and the Qur'an, not Islam and Christianity. Therefore, there is no need to follow Umar down that path to conflict.
Please note that we will be examining the Bible and the Qur'an, not Islam and Christianity. Therefore, there is no need to follow Umar down that path to conflict.
Regards,
Grenville
hey i dont mind helping you examining the Quran with you helping you better understand it the Bible you can leave at home we wont need it we look at fact and truth
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
OK, I will do so. However, as previously mentioned, can you please let me know if you agree with the Audacity of Hope
Regards,
Grenville
Greetings,
some point of the-audacity-of-hope to agree with and others to disagree
The first point of disagreement is:
format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville
Both of these groups believe that they will stand before the God of Abraham at the end of the age.
Indeed Muslims believe that they will stand before the God of Abraham at the end of the age, If Jesus is God according to Christians ,then Jesus is God of Abraham ,isn't it?
In the Quran Jesus neither the God of Abraham nor anyone else...
Let us forget about Islamic and Christian tradition for a moment and simply concentrate on the teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an. The Bible identifies God as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Qur’an identifies God as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Based on this evidence, can we not assume, for the moment, that so far, there appears to be harmony? Perhaps we will come across some verses that may challenge the present harmony, but can we at least agree that so far, we have harmony?
Let us forget about Islamic and Christian tradition for a moment and simply concentrate on the teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an. The Bible identifies God as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Qur’an identifies God as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The Quran identifies God as the God of Adam, included Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and Jesus, and ended with Muhammad (peace be upon them all) Jesus as well GOD is the God of Jeses to
format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville
Based on this evidence, can we not assume, for the moment, that so far, there appears to be harmony?
If you agree with that which was stated above yes if not no
format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville
Perhaps we will come across some verses that may challenge the present harmony, but can we at least agree that so far, we have harmony?
Regards,
Grenville
the answer is still no
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Is there no one in this forum willing to give this thing a try? Must everyone be so contentious?
Regards,
Grenville
Well see no matter what way you look at it as long as you say Jesus is God there cant be harmony at all that goes against the main belief in islam which is Tawheed the oneness of our Lord
this explains God
قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ - اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ -
لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ - وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهُ كُفُواً أَحَدٌQuran 112 1-4
(1. Say: "He is Allah") (2. "One".) (3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten".) (4. "And there is non comparable to Him.'')" Quran 112 1 - 4
الصَّمَدُ (As-Samad) is One Who does not give birth, nor was He born, because there is nothing that is born except that it will die, and there is nothing that dies except that it leaves behind inheritance, and indeed Allah does not die and He does not leave behind any inheritance.
Oneness Of GOD (Tawhid)
This is the most important Islamic belief. It implies that everything in existence originates from the one and only Creator, who is also the Sustainer and the sole Source of Guidance. This belief should govern all aspects of human life. Recognition of this fundamental truth results in a unified view of existence that rejects any divisions of life into the religious and the secular. Allah is the sole source of Power and Authority and therefore entitled to worship and obedience from mankind. There is no scope for any partnership with the Creator. Tawhid teaches man that Allah is not born, nor is anyone born of Him. He has no son or daughter. Human beings, like the rest of creation, are His subjects.
Last edited by أبو سليمان عمر; 04-26-2009 at 12:55 AM.
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Quote
PS
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks