The whole dogma will never have any logic to it. Don't try to understand it, any logical thinking mind never will. Now the Believers of this concept will reply with comments that will try to substaniate it, but at the end it will still be illogical. Allah SWT explains these people in the Quran
There is the type of man whose speech about this world's life may dazzle thee, and he calls Allah to witness about what is in his heart; yet is he the most contentious of enemies.
They will Say, he died to save humanity, Free us of sin etc etc but in the end the logic is that no one knows who died or was sacrificed. Was it Jesus? Was it God? Oh hang on they are both the same. So it wasn't jesus but it was god. So God came down, killed himself to save us all from future sin. I still can't fathom how anybody can accept that. Oh well let's just wait for our fellow christians to comment and see how hard they try to substantiate it..........Who is gonna be first?
"And do not Die unless you are in the state of Islam (Submission)"
Thanks Eric H for another interpretation of the sacrifice. We can now add to the definition that its not actually the death its the resurrection is where the meaning is held. I wonder why we can't get the same answer from each faithful christian, there always seems to be a different understanding. Maybe because there is no one way of interpreting the dogma.
"And do not Die unless you are in the state of Islam (Submission)"
Thanks Eric H for another interpretation of the sacrifice. We can now add to the definition that its not actually the death its the resurrection is where the meaning is held.
Certainly the death of Jesus has meaning for me, but the greater meaning comes from the resurrection. First a person has to die before there can be a meaningful explanation of resurrection and life after death.
Today we celebrate the Last Supper, Jesus washed the feet of his disciple, and at our service tonight we wash the feet of each other, it is a profound and moving reminder that we should serve one another.
At the Last Supper Jesus gave us a new commandment..
Love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciple.
Tomorrow we remember the death Jesus endured for us and the forgiveness of sins.
Sunday we celebrate the resurrection, and the hope of life after death. With Jesus the Son of God and God the Father.
In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God,
My question still stand: was the death of Jesus pleasing to God or not?
I am not sure I have heard That God was pleased about the death of Jesus, maybe Grace Seeker can comment. It has been called a Holy and Perfect Sacrifice, it was predestined. Jesus obeys God, but he does it by his choice, he was not forced to
John 10
17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God
According to your Quran GOD caused Jesus to die and was raised him up to himself. Why cause the one perfect sinless man on earth to die for no benefit?
Yes, GOD lovingly sacrificed His WORD incarnate for us.
Is GOD happy that He had to because of our sin- No.
^^ interesting a great love for a man to lay his life for a friend but it doesn't answer really does the death of a God please God-- is God dying for his friends?
The more you quote your bible the more confounding and perplexing really.. how do you justify it to yourself?
Anyhow I think such a loving God who was willing to self-immolate for his pals shouldn't care really if some don't buy into all the nonsense as there is no greater love than what he has done, from suicide to abrogating his OT commandments through his nemesis saul!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I am not sure I have heard That God was pleased about the death of Jesus, maybe Grace Seeker can comment. It has been called a Holy and Perfect Sacrifice, it was predestined. Jesus obeys God, but he does it by his choice, he was not forced to
John 10
17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God
Eric
Greetings Eric,
When you say 'Jesus obeys God', a command he received from the father it leads me to believe that they can't be one in the same.. how does that reconcile with monotheism, when God is allegedly one in the same with Jesus?
I know a belief is supposed to be amongst other things about your level of comfort as well all the pretty advertisement on TV of colorful eggs that amazingly coincide in all parts with sham en nseem and the persian narwuz pagan holidays and age old ceremonies that Jesus himself didn't partake in!
I like you the most out of the Christians here I believe you to be the most sincere, it really pains me to think, an otherwise intelligent wise man can let go of his reason to believe in mythology of the baffled men of old!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
^^ interesting a great love for a man to lay his life for a friend but it doesn't answer really does the death of a God please God-- is God dying for his friends?
The more you quote your bible the more confounding and perplexing really.. how do you justify it to yourself?
Anyhow I think such a loving God who was willing to self-immolate for his pals shouldn't care really if some don't buy into all the nonsense as there is no greater love than what he has done, from suicide to abrogating his OT commandments through his nemesis saul!
all the best
It's not suicide to lay down your life to save others. That's called sacrifice. Like, if I lay down my life to protect my wife whose being assaulted, and I show up just in time and whatnot. I die, but she escapes and lives on. Sacrifice is different from suicide. And to answer the question, yes it did please the Father. The Bible says that Christ's death was a sweet smelling savor to God the Father, and Isaiah 53 says that it pleased the Lord to bruise him.
The whole dogma will never have any logic to it. Don't try to understand it, any logical thinking mind never will. Now the Believers of this concept will reply with comments that will try to substaniate it, but at the end it will still be illogical.
It's not suicide to lay down your life to save others. That's called sacrifice. Like, if I lay down my life to protect my wife whose being assaulted, and I show up just in time and whatnot.
that's not what he's saying. would you kill yourself to save your wife?
I die, but she escapes and lives on. Sacrifice is different from suicide.
but we're talking about suicide! God should be the Supreme Being, thus only He would have the power to take his own life
And to answer the question, yes it did please the Father. The Bible says that Christ's death was a sweet smelling savor to God the Father, and Isaiah 53 says that it pleased the Lord to bruise him.
does it say in Isaiah 53 "it pleased the Lord to bruise himself?
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
how could god the son killing himself please god the father? IF there are both the same, then god the father would have forsaken god the son because Christians claim that god the son said:
Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
and here again
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
so because god the son and god the father are the same, we could also translate that:
"Myself, Myself, why have i forsaken me?"
and out of all this, god [the son] losing faith in god [the father] is the apex of Christian beliefs????
god loses faith in himself as he commits suicide. well, that makes so much sense!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
According to your Quran GOD caused Jesus to die and was raised him up to himself. Why cause the one perfect sinless man on earth to die for no benefit?
Yes, GOD lovingly sacrificed His WORD incarnate for us.
Is GOD happy that He had to because of our sin- No.
salaaam
1 - the person who started the thread has religion/way of life as "undisclosed" how do you know he/she a muslim?
2 - No idea where your getting the idea that "God caused Jesus pbuh to die" according to the quran - wheres your proof for that?
3 - Who said the Jesus pbuh was the ONLY perfect sinnless man and whats that go to do with the Quran???
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