(The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide show

format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo

One who want to know the truth does not hope to get it by forcing it out through whatever intimidation. Calling me a troll won't force me to reply against the way I estimate appropriate. Truth is sacred. I have high respect for it..

So you would not share the truth with me?
why?

format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo

I have replied to your question, I just haven't given an answer because you are not ready for it.

so, how can someone be ready to know what happened when god died?

even if you don't want to share it with me, do you not want to share with thousands of other members and guests who will also surely wonder what happened to the universe when god died?
Or you don't think that the thousands and thousands of members and guests who, I guarantee, will read this thread, ready to accept your truth?

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe even when he was alive here on Earth. I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe when he died on this Earth. Running the universe has always been in the hands of God the Father.

Eric, then you must be one of few christians who don't believe Jesus is God. Amigo is among majority christians who believe Jesus is God who runs the universe.

If you don't think Jesus is God, then who is he according to your belief?

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

This is the same God who gave you a faith through Islam, and me a faith through Christianity. It seems that God, Allah is so far beyond our understanding in the way he gives each of us our faith, God chooses whom he wills, and in the way he wills us to be. Why should I try and change your beliefs, if God gave them to you in the first place, only God can change both you and me?

Your paragraph above places the blame on Allah SWT. astaghfirullah. If you believe that we all are merely puppets of Allah, then what is hell for? Is it not fair that some of us will go to hell when Allah wills us to?
In Islam, we believe in freewill and predestination, not either.
Sure we were all born in different circumstances, but many of us got introduced to the truth (aka Islam) during their lifetime. Case in point: you. You are a christian and Allah give you guidance that brought you to this forum where you learnt so much about Islam and the falsehoods of christianity. It is up to you to reject all the evidence and choose your faith based on your whims and desires.

Also if we are to follow your logic and reasoning, then Allah wills atheists, agnostics, hindus, killers, rapists, paedophiles (I'm sure Amigo is familiar with this, seeing he is a catholic), etc etc.
Astaghfirullah.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

Despite all our differences, I do not believe that God wants us to spend our time arguing and trying to prove others wrong. I believe God wants us to get on with each other, and seek justice for all people despite all our differences.

At least in this forum, we are trying to show the truth of Islam and (in this section) how false other beliefs. I am all for good discussions, unfortunately some people are not ready for that.

If I may be allowed to interrupt for a minute:

The concept of predestination has always bothered me. If God has already determined who will be saved and who won't be, then nothing we do on this earth matters, because God has already decided who lives and who dies. You can lead a life of sainthood and still go to hell just because God decided you are not worthy. You can be the worst sinner and still go to heaven because "God thinks you're cool." It sounds too much like a high school club for my tastes. I like to think that we have free will and can choose our own fate. Otherwise, nothing we do here on earth matters, and that bothers me.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument...

format_quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy

If I may be allowed to interrupt for a minute:

The concept of predestination has always bothered me. If God has already determined who will be saved and who won't be, then nothing we do on this earth matters, because God has already decided who lives and who dies. You can lead a life of sainthood and still go to hell just because God decided you are not worthy. You can be the worst sinner and still go to heaven because "God thinks you're cool." It sounds too much like a high school club for my tastes. I like to think that we have free will and can choose our own fate. Otherwise, nothing we do here on earth matters, and that bothers me.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument...

Hi Pre-Brother,
I will try to explain the Islamic view for your point with proofs from the Holy Quran.
Allah Almighty says:

Q91:07-10 “07 And a soul and Him Who perfected it, 08 And inspired it its libertinism and its righteousness, 09 He has succeeded who purifies it, 10 And he has failed who instills it.”

Q90:04-10 “4 We have certainly created man into hardship,5 Does he think that never will anyone overcome him, 6 He says, "I have spent wealth in abundance." 7 Does he think that no one has seen him, 8 Have We not made for him two eyes, 9 And a tongue and two lips, 10 And have shown him the two ways”

So the message here is clear. That Allah have created the man and gave him the <full ability><both physical & mental> to choose the bad or the good way in life.

Guidance in Islam can be divided into 2 categories which are:
1. Direction guidance.
2. Help guidance.

Let me take this example to explain them. If you are driving your car in a city and you have lost your way, you will stop by someone and ask him about your destination. Let us say that he told you how to go there but it was not easy for you to get it. If you were so nice and thanked the man with many good words, maybe he will feel sorry for you and jump up in your car to join you till you reach your destination.
The first time he gave you direction guidance, but in the second time he gave you help guidance.

The same with Allah Almighty. He gave them direction guidance by sending His prophets and books.
But the help guidance does not give it to any one, only the one who want to be good.
Another example: As a Muslim maybe I will feel lazy wake up in the early morning every day leaving my warm bed and wash myself with cold water to do the Salat (Prayer). But if I insist to wake up every day to my prayers I will feel with time that I would be so sad if I missed it one day. This is the help guidance from Allah, to make you love what you thought it was difficult to worship Him.

Allah Almighty said to His prophet Mohammed (PBUH):
Q42:52 “…, And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path”
This is the direction guidance.
Q28:56 “Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guideswhom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided”
This is the help guidance.

Last thing to say, is Allah’s knowledge according to our destinies is <a beforehand knowledge> NOT < a guided knowledge>. Because God already knows what will happen with every one of us and which way each of us will choose from the time of Adam or the moment when He decided to create us.
I will give you an example from the Quran.

Q111 “May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he,”

This verse had been sent around 10 years before the death of this dis-believer man, Abu Lahab. He was able to convert to Islam and made the Quran look bad and not truthful within these 10 years, but he never did.
This is an example about how the knowledge of Allah is a beforehand knowledge.

I wish that help somehow.
BRMM

Thanks, brmm. That does help clear it up. So if I understand correctly, Allah knows what we will choose, yet still gives us the free will to choose for ourselves.

To me, that makes it more important to keep your faith by doing good to your fellow man.

where is Amigo

format_quote Originally Posted by brmm

where is Amigo

I am here!
Missing me?

format_quote Originally Posted by brmm

where is Amigo

I've been waiting for him too. He promised me he will answer my one simple question, but then he changed his mind and he thinks I'm not worthy enough to receive the answer about the truth

format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo

I am here! Missing me?

Oh hi Amigo!

so, am I worthy enough for your answer now?

format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo

I am here!
Missing me?

Yea, I believe without non-muslim brothers, this forum will be without spice !

Maybe I can suggest something,
Since Just a Guy love to read history a lot, I will suggest to read a very unique book in the Islamic library, The Stories of the Prophets (from Adam to Mohammed):

amazon.com/Stories-Prophets-Hafiz-Ibn-Kathir/dp/9960892263

Also, a good introduction about Islam by watching the movie, The Message. It is very unique movie also, filmed in 1976 in Libya, financed by Presedent Moamar Al-Kadafi, and they have made it 2 times in the same time, once with Arabic actors and a 2nd time with English speaking actors. 3 hours long. Be sure to get the English copy with Anthony Quinn.

amazon.com/Message-30th-Anniversary-Anthony-Quinn/dp/B000AQ6A4E/ref=pd_sim_b_3

BRMM

Good news ...
I found the Movie on U tube in one screen (3 hours).

youtube.com/watch?v=AP8jTCpDvBQ&feature=related

BRMM

format_quote Originally Posted by brmm

Yea, I believe without non-muslim brothers, this forum will be without spice !

In that case, just call me... paprika.

Thanks for the suggestions, brmm. I will check out that book and movie.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo

Jesus is not a god. Jesus is God.

OK so you say, but the God of Jesus supposedly forsook him on the cross. Since Jesus is God (#1) and his God (#2) forsook him, then there must be at least 2 Gods in Christianity.

Forsook - to renounce or turn away from entirely. Why did the God of Jesus renounce him? Can God turn His back on Himself? Astaghfir'Allah!

format_quote Originally Posted by brmm

Hi Amego,

Please can u tell me the verses in the Bible where I can find "I AM WHO AM" ?

Seems as though he made it up because Exodus 3:14 says - God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.’”

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

This is the same God who gave you a faith through Islam, and me a faith through Christianity.

Peace Eric H. I can't agree with you here. How can the same God say "God gave His only begotten Son" also say "God begets not and is not begotten"? These two concepts are directly contradictory and I don't see how they are derived from the same source.

Despite all our differences, I do not believe that God wants us to spend our time arguing and trying to prove others wrong.

Is Truth compatible with falsehood? I spend every day surrounded by Christians and almost never even mention religion. This is an Islamic forum and I assume you are here to discuss religion and not to have a picnic. For example, the thread I started "Forgiveness vs Atonement" was meant to be a point of discussion to clarify a very important concept which illustrates a fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity. I welcome your participation there.

My understanding of Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainment) is that Allah (swt) has decreed what circumstances we will encounter in our life, but our response and reaction to those external circumstances is our responsibility.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

My understanding of Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainment) is that Allah (swt) has decreed what circumstances we will encounter in our life, but our response and reaction to those external circumstances is our responsibility.

I have been listening to some podcasts from bayinnah.com and one of the ones I downloaded talks about this. Abdul Nasir Jangda said the same thing in one of his lessons on the Qu'ran. You will face adversity in your life, but it is how you deal with that adversity that determines who you are.