Who is the founder of Christianity?

[Grace Seeker]

This forum likes to wrestle with this question, but usually does so tied up in other threads. I thought that maybe it would be good to have a dedicated thread to this topic.

So, here is the question: Who is the founder of Christianity?


Now, because some will come and try to change the nature of the question, some defintion to what I mean by the terms I used, and anticipate others using.



Christianity -- The historic Christian faith as found in the teachings of the New Testament and further articulated by the ecumenical councils of the early church at Jerusalem, Nice, Ephesus, Nicea, Constantinople and Chalcedon.

Founder -- source of the basic ideas and concepts that became core of the teachings that are eventually expressed as the Christian faith.

Gospel -- The teaching with regard to Jesus as both the Christ and Son of God who died on the cross for the redemption of humanity and was resurrected from the grave to new life and who now reigns alongside the Father.


Injil -- The teachings that Muslims believe were at the core of Jesus' message and which are fully in harmony with the teachings of Muhammad.


Please make every effort to distinguish between the terms Injil and Gospel and not use them interchangably.

[YusufNoor]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

i voted for Paul as per: the Christian faith as found in the teachings of the New Testament and further articulated by the ecumenical councils of the early church at Jerusalem, Nice, Ephesus, Nicea, Constantinople and Chalcedon. i left out "historic" because the church that Jesus/Isa Alaihe Salaam started would have been a lot closer to Judaism.

by putting "historic" instead of just the rest, you kind of skew your poll a bit in your favor. historically, it's what it BECAME, but it's NOT what it started out as. if you study Judaism at all, you'ld see that there is NO WAY that the Messiah would teach any but True Monotheism; there'd be no tri-unes or trinities. and of course, THAT would have been the Injeel, which i'm sure that you'll have none of. i reckon it's too hard for some to have god that they can't see, so they put one in human form [maybe golden calves would be too obvious! ].

[syilla]

Wow...mashaAllah good question.

In Islam, of course we don't believe the founder is jesus.

i voted Paul too

[Pygoscelis]

I voted "unknown early church leaders" but this definition

Founder -- source of the basic ideas and concepts that became core of the teachings that are eventually expressed as the Christian faith.

makes me think "Egyptians", "Babylonians", and "Summerians" are the right answers. The vast majoirty of the bible is recycled from earlier mythology.

[Isambard]

I voted "unknown early church leaders" but this definition



makes me think "Egyptians", "Babylonians", and "Summerians" are the right answers. The vast majoirty of the bible is recycled from earlier mythology.

Id agree with unknown early church leaders, but lean toward greek and roman mythology and philosophy as well as Jewish apocalypticism.

[snakelegs]

voted paul and unknown early church leaders.

[Trumble]

Taking careful note of your definition of 'founder', it would have to be "don't like any of the options". A combination of those "unknown early church leaders" and Jesus himself, probably, the former building on the teachings of the latter both in terms of doctrine and myth.

[Talha777]

Christianity was basically founded by Paul. Its based on most of his ideas. His theological speculations in his various letters to the churches in modern day Turkey is the base of christianity. The teachings of Jesus himself are considered secondary.

In a way christianity was even founded by satan.

[north_malaysian]

Paul.

[ahsan28]

Paul.

[Fishman]

The various Church leaders who solidified Christian beliefs into a proper creed.

[Amadeus85]

God.

[MustafaMc]

If one reads the 1st two chapters of Galatians with an open mind, he would see that Paul is the founder of Christianity as a Gentile religion. The disciples of Jesus were Jews and they taught the following of the Judaic law albeit with an "enlightened" perspective of forgiveness, love and mercy as taught by Jesus.

Paul clearly states that he and Barnabas were sent to the Gentiles while Peter was the apostle to the Jew. Galatians 2:7-9 ...but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision (Gentile), even as Peter with [the gospel] of the circumcision (Jew) (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles); and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision;

Latter on Paul illustrates the conflict that he had with the disciples about applying the Judaic law to the Gentiles. Paul even differed with Barnabas who traveled extensively with him. Paul and Barnabas eventually "parted ways". Galatians 2:11-13 But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned. For before that certain came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came, he drew back and separated himself, fearing them that were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that even Barnabas was carried away with their dissimulation.

Paul clearly states that what he preached was received by direct revelation from God after Jesus' accension - not from Jesus' disciples. We also see that those of reputation (disciples of Jesus) taught him nothing. Galatians 1:15-17 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, [even] from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I (Paul) conferred not with flesh and blood: neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were apostles before me: but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas (Peter), and tarried with him fifteen days. and Galatians 2:6 But from those who were reputed to be somewhat (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth not man's person)-- they, I say, who were of repute imparted nothing to me:

There were clearly competing "gospels" during the first century and Paul resisted those other than what he preached vehemently. We see from later passages in Galatians that these other gospels must have included the need for circumcision and by extension following the Judaic law. Galatians 1:6-12 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; which is not another [gospel] only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ (as taught by Paul). But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema (cursed by ecclesiastical authority). As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema. For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? or am I striving to please men? if I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ. For I make known to you, brethren, as touching the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not after man. For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but [it came to me] through revelation of Jesus Christ.

Again, we see that the gospel that Paul preached was not taught to him by men (Jesus' disciples), but rather he claims, in this case, to have gotten it by direct revelation from Jesus after his accension to Heaven.

The "gospel" as we know it today originated with Paul as defined in I Corinthians 15:1-4 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures. This "gospel" of salvation is not defined by any other than Paul.

[MartyrX]

If Christianity was solely based on the Teachings of Jesus than I'd say him, but from my studies I'd have to point towards the church that twisted The New Testament into their own words.

[Grace Seeker]

I voted "unknown early church leaders" but this definition



makes me think "Egyptians", "Babylonians", and "Summerians" are the right answers. The vast majoirty of the bible is recycled from earlier mythology.

You had a "none of the above" option available to you; it was your choice not to use it.

[Grace Seeker]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

i voted for Paul as per: the Christian faith as found in the teachings of the New Testament and further articulated by the ecumenical councils of the early church at Jerusalem, Nice, Ephesus, Nicea, Constantinople and Chalcedon. i left out "historic" because the church that Jesus/Isa Alaihe Salaam started would have been a lot closer to Judaism.

by putting "historic" instead of just the rest, you kind of skew your poll a bit in your favor. historically, it's what it BECAME, but it's NOT what it started out as. if you study Judaism at all, you'ld see that there is NO WAY that the Messiah would teach any but True Monotheism; there'd be no tri-unes or trinities. and of course, THAT would have been the Injeel, which i'm sure that you'll have none of. i reckon it's too hard for some to have god that they can't see, so they put one in human form [maybe golden calves would be too obvious! ].

Yep, I put "historic" because I want to discuss the Chrsitianity that we have inherited and see practiced today, not some idea of a Chrsitainity that people (even though of good will and attempted research) can at best only speculate about as once was or might have been.

[BlackMamba]

Well definitely not Jesus. He never preached that he was part of a trinity. That part of Christianity was made later.

[MustafaMc]

The Apostle Paul Founder of Christianity
by Lewis Loflin

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Most of the New Testament doesn't even concern the historical Jesus while the main influence is the Apostle Paul and through the church he founded at Ephesus a Greek convert named John. Paul never met Jesus in the flesh, he only claimed some strange vision and proceeded to paganize the teachings of Jesus (who preached an enlightened form of Judaism), until he created Pauline Christianity. Because there are no known writings from Jesus, the actual Apostles, or anyone that actually knew Him in the flesh (other then perhaps James), most of what He taught is lost forever, other than perhaps the disputed Gnostic Gospels.

While Jesus is regarded by Christians as the founder of the faith, Paul's role in defining Christianity can't be ignored. "Paul is regarded as the great interpreter of Jesus' mission, who explained, in a way that Jesus himself never did, how Jesus' life and death fitted into a cosmic scheme of salvation, stretching from the creation of Adam to the end of time." The doctrines of Christianity come mostly from the teaching or influence of Paul, a Pharisee(?) who rejected his Pharisaic Judaism. His worship was that of a "Christ" totally unrelated to the Jewish Messiah, a nationalist (and human) figure that was supposed to free the nation from foreign (Roman) rule. Paul would later be placed over his Jewish-Christian rivals by a Gnostic heretic named Marcion. The Church in its struggles with both Marcion and other fellow Gnostics was forced to define itself and launch an internal war to silence opponents.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

[Keltoi]

I answer God, simply because that is the point of having faith to begin with.

As for whether Paul had a major impact on Christianity, I would say absolutely. Especially in the realm of Gentile conversions. I think many people are a little confused about the role of Mosaic Law in Christianity, but that is beside the point. Paul is responsible for guiding Christianity to be a more universal faith, but the foundational doctrine of Christianity was well in place before the missions to Corinth and Rome.

[glo]

This forum likes to wrestle with this question, but usually does so tied up in other threads. I thought that maybe it would be good to have a dedicated thread to this topic.

So, here is the question: Who is the founder of Christianity?

Greeting, Grace Seeker

I hope your Christmas was a peaceful and joyful one.

We have all been quite unwell in my house, and with everybody feeling poorly and cranky, we've had ample opportunity to practice being patient and gracious with each other!

As for this thread, I love it! And here I thought I was the one asking the questions ...
I have had time to ponder this, and I am itching to write down my own thoughts ... but I will need a bit more time to put my thoughts into writing.

Peace