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  1. #1
    Perseveranze's Avatar
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    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

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    This is really for Muslims to use in debates against Xtians, it's a very very good read. Alot of times xtians try to compare Muhammad(pbuh) and Jesus(pbuh), despite knowing the different roles both had, they make it out like one was good and other was bad. It is trully ignorance.

    According to OT and NT, Jesus(pbuh)'s second comming is going to be extremely violent. I'm sure if you use the arguements in the following article, you'll make a hypocrite out of many people.


    The greatest crime, the greatest ‘sin’ of Mohammad in the eyes of the Christian West is that he did not allow himself to be slaughtered, to be ‘crucified’ by his enemies. He only defended himself, his family and his followers; and finally vanquished his enemies. Mohammad’s success is the Christians’ gall of disappointment: He did not believe in any vicarious sacrifices for the sins of others. [Edward Gibbon, famous English Historian]


    http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/jes...ills-them-all/
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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3)
    It is you (i.e. human) who make yourself an enemy of God / Christ by not believing in His Word. His relation / attitude to you depends on your relation to Him.
    1 | Likes Iconodule liked this post

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Legal_alien View Post
    It is you (i.e. human) who make yourself an enemy of God / Christ by not believing in His Word. His relation / attitude to you depends on your relation to Him.
    Watch this video. You'll get your answer about Christ (PBUH) being the "begotten" son of God.

    1 | Likes SyrianFellow liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
    Surah Ale Imran : 160

    It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)

    Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
    Ali (RadhiAllahu Anhu)

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    Amigo's Avatar
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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    so I posted a video directly addressing the title of the thread and it was deleted. Reason: "promoting other religions".

    A good illustration of the very message contained in the video.
    Truth comes two times, or rather, we face it two significant times:
    Introduction (proposed salvation), and our reaction to it which seals our destiny (judgement).
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    so I posted a video directly addressing the title of the thread and it was deleted. Reason: "promoting other religions".
    .
    You should be glad I didn't give you any infraction point for breaking the rule.

    You can always write them down here your answers pertaining the thread title.

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All
    Although my first answer was actually correct, I would like to modify it and present it more gently:
    God / Jesus doesn’t relate to you or anyone else as to an enemy. God loves all and wants salvation for all of his rational creatures. God expresses his love in all things he does towards us for our salvation. But if I do not want to respond to God’s love towards me, then I’m actually choosing to be his enemy. So it is me who want to be God’s enemy. God doesn’t make me his own enemy.

    P.S. I hope that not every Muslim member in this forum is such a narrow-minded polemicist like the few whom I probably responded too roughly in the past. I regret that I put myself on their level. I’m actually interested in a peaceful dialogue.

    ​In peace,
    1 | Likes Amigo liked this post

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Legal_alien View Post
    God / Jesus doesn’t relate to you or anyone else as to an enemy. God loves all and wants salvation for all of his rational creatures. God expresses his love in all things he does towards us for our salvation. But if I do not want to respond to God’s love towards me, then I’m actually choosing to be his enemy. So it is me who want to be God’s enemy. God doesn’t make me his own enemy.
    Does Jesus love his enemies?

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    Amigo's Avatar
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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    God rises his sun on the good and the bad, physically and spiritually.
    Only the thieves and other bad people who prefer darkness don't like the sun. They don't like the truth.
    God is truth and love. Jesus is Truth; it is his nature, he can't help it. If people develop hate for truth because of their evil hearts, then Jesus is simply Hell for them, just as light/sun is hell for thieves.
    1 | Likes Legal_alien liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    ^^^^^^ Brother Amigo, your principle also applies to the one who's stating it. Muslims love Jesus more than Christians and we anticipate his return far more eagerly than any Christian in the world. We love him the way he wants to be loved and commanded to be loved.
    2 | Likes 'Aleena, Abz2000 liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
    Surah Ale Imran : 160

    It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)

    Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
    Ali (RadhiAllahu Anhu)

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Legal_alien View Post
    Although my first answer was actually correct, I would like to modify it and present it more gently:
    God / Jesus doesn’t relate to you or anyone else as to an enemy. God loves all and wants salvation for all of his rational creatures. God expresses his love in all things he does towards us for our salvation. But if I do not want to respond to God’s love towards me, then I’m actually choosing to be his enemy. So it is me who want to be God’s enemy. God doesn’t make me his own enemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan View Post
    Does Jesus love his enemies?
    Let me add another question on top of this one: when humans choose to become enemies of God, then does God continue to love these people?
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Fi Amanillah
    Wa As-Salāmu 'Alaykum
    Islamic-Life
    Bringing Da'wah back..to life!

    عن تميم بن أوس الداري أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: قال الدين النصيحة ثلاثا قلنا لمن يا رسول الله قال لله ولكتابه ولرسوله ولأئمة المسلمين وعامتهم - رواه مسلم

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by MSalman View Post
    Let me add another question on top of this one: when humans choose to become enemies of God, then does God continue to love these people?
    God is love and God does not change.
    Hatred and evil can weaken the love of creatures, but not the love that is God.
    God is most high, and most powerful, his love can not be conquered by any evil or hatred, nor weakened.

    This is heaven for those who love truly, but hell for those who have chosen hatred.
    Last edited by Amigo; 10-18-2011 at 03:47 AM.
    2 | Likes Legal_alien, Iconodule liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Jesus (pbuh) is clearly recorded in the old and new testaments and in the hadith as bringing redemption along with war ;

    Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.2Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
    3I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me:
    for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury;
    and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
    4For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
    5And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold:
    therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
    6And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
    7I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
    8For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
    9In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
    10But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit:
    therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

    isaiah 63

    this is definitely a description of the christ,
    you'll find the apparel of the lion of judah mentioned in genesis;

    Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy handshall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
    9Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
    10The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come;
    and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
    11Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
    12His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
    genesis 49

    it is also mentioned in revelation;
    And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes wereas a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    15
    And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:

    and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    revelation 19

    But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
    5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
    6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    isaiah 11

    It will at this very time that Allah will send Christ, son of Mary. He will descend at the white minaret on the eastern side of Damascus, wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he lowers his head, there will fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he raises it up, beads like pearls will scatter from it. Every non-believer who smells the odor of his body will die and his breath will reach as far as he is able to see. He will then search for him (Dajjal) until he catches hold of him at the gate of Ludd (Jerusalem) and kills him.

    (Sahih Muslim, Book 40, No. 7015)
    Last edited by Abz2000; 10-18-2011 at 06:09 AM.
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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Greetings and peace be with you Perseveranze;

    God in his infinite wisdom has given you a deep and profound faith through Islam, and for reasons best known to the same God, he has given me a deep and profound faith through Christianity.

    If God the same God gave each of us these gifts of faith, then surely the we should love and pray for each other.

    In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

    Eric
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    God is love and God does not change.
    I suppose you meant God is loving not love

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    Hatred and evil can weaken the love of creatures, but not the love that is God.
    God is most high, and most powerful, his love can not be conquered by any evil or hatred, nor weakened.

    This is heaven for those who love truly, but hell for those who have chosen hatred.
    ok, so let me get this right: According to you God loves even those who hate Him but He is going to throw them in hell anyway. Why would He throw them in hell if really loves them?
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Fi Amanillah
    Wa As-Salāmu 'Alaykum
    Islamic-Life
    Bringing Da'wah back..to life!

    عن تميم بن أوس الداري أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: قال الدين النصيحة ثلاثا قلنا لمن يا رسول الله قال لله ولكتابه ولرسوله ولأئمة المسلمين وعامتهم - رواه مسلم

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    your brother Ramadhan must like your question
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    your brother Ramadhan must like your question
    I do like his questions.
    They are very simple and should be easy to answer, but you have evaded br. Salman's questions and mine.

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Sorry, earlier I did not have enough time...

    Quote Originally Posted by MSalman View Post
    I suppose you meant God is loving not love
    God is love.


    Quote Originally Posted by MSalman View Post
    ok, so let me get this right: According to you God loves even those who hate Him but He is going to throw them in hell anyway. Why would He throw them in hell if really loves them?
    His love for them is hell to them because they hate it. As you said, they hate Him.
    Now, when you hate someone, but can't get rid of Him, He is hell for you.

    They hate the love, but can't get rid of it. Love itself is hell to them who hate and persist in their hatred.
    Last edited by Amigo; 10-19-2011 at 11:14 AM.
    1 | Likes Legal_alien liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    His love for them is hell to them because they hate it. As you said, they hate Him.
    Now, when you hate someone, but can't get rid of Him, He is hell for you.

    They hate the love, but can't get rid of it. Love itself is hell to them who hate and persist in their hatred.
    So much ambiguity. Makes it so easy to understand why every year thousands of Christians turn away from this maze and revert to Islam, Alhamdulillah. The clear, straigh-forward and action oriented religion.

    We hear, and we obey

    Surah Baqarah (2) : Verse 285

    Also, why do you people like demeaning God so much? The perception of God in Christianity is as if God is forever longing man's love and will keep loving mankind despite their iniquities and if they don't love God back then it'll hurt Him and He'll give them dreadful punishments with an aching heart. The God of the Christians is a weak being begging for mankind's love and is destined to keep longing for it and will only attain satisfaction when all humanity turns to him. NAUZBILLAH.

    This image altogether is very weak. Just imagine a family in which the father (head of the family) is very kind and yet his children disrespect him and even if they do the most heinous things, he'll love them. How in the world will those children ever learn ethics then? His infinite and indefinite mercy will only push them towards much more sin and rather each action will be a catalyst for bigger and worse activities. At one point or the other, there has to be some balancing factor here or there which makes evil look disgusting to every man. And endless love is not that factor.
    Last edited by Ali_008; 10-19-2011 at 11:53 AM.
    1 | Likes Perseveranze liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
    Surah Ale Imran : 160

    It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)

    Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
    Ali (RadhiAllahu Anhu)

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post

    God is love.

    His love for them is hell to them because they hate it. As you said, they hate Him.
    Now, when you hate someone, but can't get rid of Him, He is hell for you.

    They hate the love, but can't get rid of it. Love itself is hell to them who hate and persist in their hatred.

    Are you claiming that God will not torture unbelievers and sinners in hell?
    are you saying that hell will only be a state of mind? because that is what's implied in your sentences above.

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    Re: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    Hell is about hardened people who are so wicked, so hatefull, so unloving that love is torture to them.
    Love....true love penetrates the whole being of a person.
    And true love is the greatest power there is. It is God.
    Last edited by Amigo; 10-20-2011 at 07:16 AM.
    1 | Likes Legal_alien liked this post
    Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88


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