Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

[Ali_008]

What I am construing from your words, Brother Amigo, is that God will love the wicked even more than the righteous and shower them infinite mercy which will become a means of their agony. So I suppose the Christian hell is not what it is actually propagated as, as a place full of serpents and evil creatures eager to devour every human that enters it and roast them in the meantime. Rather, the Christian hell is a place of full of love and kindness. Whereas the Christian heaven is nothing but white vacuum as I suppose it is more about spiritual pleasures than physical pleasures over there. The one thing that man has i.e. life, he devotes it all to his lord, forbids himself all sorts of materialistic pleasures just to become a hollow creature without any requirements of pleasure. Does not sound like a fair deal to me at all.

Man is prohibited in Islam to do sinful things because pleasures of a much higher degree have been prepared for him in the hereafter whereas Christianity stands on the ground that man is not supposed to have any of those pleasures but yet believe that God could go as low as "begetting" a son. NAUZBILLAH.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding furious but I really am after reading such mockery of Al-Khaliq (the Creator). May Allah guide all of mankind. :hmm: Ameen

 

[Amigo]

What I am construing from your words, Brother Amigo, is that God will love the wicked even more than the righteous and shower them infinite mercy which will become a means of their agony.

God loves all beings the same way. It is how we receive this love and react to it which makes our fate different.
For those who accepts it fully, it is heaven.
For those who rejects it fully, it is hell.

Blessedness is being delighted in love
****ation is disregarding love.

If you take a group of people who are full of arrogance, hatred, violence, lusts, etc and lock them together in a place. They will start dealing with each other according to their own nature, and they will make the house into hell themselves. They will fight, rape, kill, dominate, enslave, all kind of evil their evil nature can produce....
The very gifts God gave them will be used to light up the fires of hell, because they choose to misuse them.


God's loving justice grant that everyone end up with the like. The good end up with the good, the bad with the bad.
For the good it will be heaven for they will love and delight in each other in all kinds of ways.
For the bad, it will be hell because they will abuse each other in all kinds of ways.

In all cases, God is love, his justice is perfect.

 

[Amigo]

I'm sorry if I'm sounding furious but I really am after reading such mockery of Al-Khaliq (the Creator). May Allah guide all of mankind. Ameen

You find saying that "God is love..." a mockery of the Creator???

May God guide all of mankind indeed.

 

[Ramadhan]

Hell is about hardened people who are so wicked, so hatefull, so unloving that love is torture to them.
Love....true love penetrates the whole being of a person.
And true love is the greatest power there is. It is God.

These questions arise from your statements above:
So God will torture unbelievers and sinners in hell using love as the torture tool?
Is hell only for the wicked and the hateful?
if true love is God, where is God now?


I am not quite sure I followed you.
In the OT, God never said that love is God.
but christians then usurped God and made a human as god.
and now, love also usurped god as god.

 

[Ramadhan]

You find saying that "God is love..." a mockery of the Creator???

of course.

love is a noun
To merely state that God is a noun is a mockery of the creator.

Muslims believe that God is God.
God is not a man.
God is not a creation.
God is not a noun.

 

[Amigo]

if true love is God, where is God now?

Here as always.

I am not quite sure I followed you.
In the OT, God never said that love is God.

He said it. You just didn't hear Him.

of course.

love is a noun
To merely state that God is a noun is a mockery of the creator.

Muslims believe that God is God.
God is not a man.
God is not a creation.
God is not a noun.

Very islamic.

 

[Ramadhan]

He said it. You just didn't hear Him.

Where in the OT did God say that Love is God?

Very islamic.

Yes, it is very Islamic to say that God is God.
Unlike christians who claim God is a human, and God is love.

Alhamdulillaah All thanks due to God that I am a muslim. Otherwise, I would have had to say all the silly, ridiculous, and absurd things followers of other religions had to do to defend their belief.

 

[Ali_008]

God loves all beings the same way. It is how we receive this love and react to it which makes our fate different.
For those who accepts it fully, it is heaven.
For those who rejects it fully, it is hell.

Blessedness is being delighted in love
****ation is disregarding love.

If you take a group of people who are full of arrogance, hatred, violence, lusts, etc and lock them together in a place. They will start dealing with each other according to their own nature, and they will make the house into hell themselves. They will fight, rape, kill, dominate, enslave, all kind of evil their evil nature can produce....
The very gifts God gave them will be used to light up the fires of hell, because they choose to misuse them.


God's loving justice grant that everyone end up with the like. The good end up with the good, the bad with the bad.
For the good it will be heaven for they will love and delight in each other in all kinds of ways.
For the bad, it will be hell because they will abuse each other in all kinds of ways.

In all cases, God is love, his justice is perfect.

Again, according to these statements there won't be any punishments from God himself to the evildoers. The only torture they'll have to face is dealing with each other in hell which obviously contradicts the Bible as even the Bible contains verses describing the agonizing punishments of hell. Brother, I'm slowly getting it all. For the most part, I don't blame you, I blame the church who builds these values and propagates them. Because what you are saying is not mentioned in the Bible, they are what the church teaches to the believers. The entire theory is so flawed that it is easy to infer that it is man-made.

If I accept your theory then it should be observed that such a scenario won't incite any regret in the sinner for his past. The appetite of evil grows with what it feeds on. Their crimes against each other will encourage them more in doing the bad stuff. Ultimately, hell just be sinners' playground. No regrets whatsoever. Islam teaches different. According to Islam, every sinner will get his due recompense and will be humbled. Justice will finally be served and yes Allah's justice is, indeed, perfect.

You find saying that "God is love..." a mockery of the Creator???

May God guide all of mankind indeed.

I wouldn't call that a mockery but I wouldn't call it a fact either. God is not just love, He's a lot more than that.

 

[Amigo]

God is not just love, He's a lot more than that.

You are obviously speaking from a muslim perception of love.

 

[Ramadhan]

You are obviously speaking from a muslim perception of love.

ummm...no.

He was speaking about universal definition of love.

"Love is God" is a new hippie way how christians are trying to fit their belief into the current trend of society.

Jesus (pbuh) never taught "Love is God"

Just ask our estemeed pastor Grace Seeker here.

 

[Amigo]

'Love is God' is not the same as 'God is love' except where there is confusion about God and his perfection.

 

[Ramadhan]

'Love is God' is not the same as 'God is love' except where there is confusion about God and his perfection.

Are you talking about christians?
Because Muslims are never confused about God and His perfection.
Muslims always believe that God is God.
God is not love, and love is not god.

It is christian who are confused whether God is only one, or whether god is three, or whether god is human and a spirit.
It is you christians who claim god is love and love is god.

 

[Amigo]

..............

 

[Ali_008]

Brother Amigo, man's definition of love is very limited and the love which God has for his faithful believers is infinitely more. The purest form of human love is the love which a mother has for her child whereas according to the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) Allah's love for a believer is more than the love of 70 mothers combined. According to another report, when Allah created mercy, He divided it into 100 parts, sent one of them down on earth and kept the 99 others with Himself and said He'll use all that mercy on the Day of Judgment to forgive the remorseful sinners. After knowing all this, how can you expect any Muslim to define God as simply love. He is obviously much much much more than that. And He is also Al-Adl (The Just) and hence will establish perfect balance on the day of balance with His justice.

Brother, you calling God as love isn't the main offensive thing you've said. It's the other theories which sound very illogical. I hope you address them in your next post.

 

[Amigo]

Brother Amigo, man's definition of love is very limited and the love which God has for his faithful believers is infinitely more.

I am glad you realise this.

The purest form of human love is the love which a mother has for her child whereas according to the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) Allah's love for a believer is more than the love of 70 mothers combined. According to another report, when Allah created mercy, He divided it into 100 parts, sent one of them down on earth and kept the 99 others with Himself and said He'll use all that mercy on the Day of Judgment to forgive the remorseful sinners.

See that first quote in this message.

After knowing all this, how can you expect any Muslim to define God as simply love.

I can't and I didn't.

He is obviously much much much more than that. And He is also Al-Adl (The Just) and hence will establish perfect balance on the day of balance with His justice.

Justice is a property of love, not an add to it.
Justice is from love else it is not justice at all but tyranny.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ali_008;

man's definition of love is very limited and the love which God has for his faithful believers is infinitely more.

When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments, Jesus loved each and every one of his neighbours as he loves himself. But how do you love your neighbour who has comndemned you to death, how do you love your neighbour who has nailed you to the cross. The prayer of Jesus on the cross was, forgive them father for they know not what they do.

If this is how God loves and forgives, then this is beyond my understanding, how can anyone love to that extent, yet the greatest thing we are all commanded to do in any situation is to love our neighbour.

I do not want to get into any kind of competition between Islam and Christianity, scriptures are inteneded to inspire the reader and follower of that faith to change in some way. I have a great respect in the way Muslims fast, pray and how they respect modesty, but my faith is through Jesus, the cross and resurection.

Somehow the same God challenges each of us in different ways, you will never look into the eyes on anyone who does not matter to God.

God’s blessings and peace be with you

Eric

 

[Ali_008]

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) was the most kind and gentle human being yet he was also very just. He never stepped back from bringing the culprits to justice. His love for a person did not stand in the way of treating that person's crime fairly. Justice and love aren't exactly compatible. Love can make you blind and make you overlook justice. If a mother ever finds her child guilty of some act then she may choose to cloud justice with her love and not try or punish the child at all.

Justice is about the greater good. About doing the right thing even if it against yourself and against those who you love. If love ever comes in the way of justice then that's tyranny.

Anyway, like I previously mentioned, I hope you address other issues discussed in this thread earlier in your next post.

P.S. In my last post, the love of Allah was for the "believers", not for every human.

 

[Ali_008]

Greetings and peace be with you Ali_008;
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments, Jesus loved each and every one of his neighbours as he loves himself. But how do you love your neighbour who has comndemned you to death, how do you love your neighbour who has nailed you to the cross. The prayer of Jesus on the cross was, forgive them father for they know not what they do.

Walekum as Salaam

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) once went to Taif to preach the message of Islam and was treated with rejection. Not just rejection, the chiefs of the city asked the kids and vagabonds to ridicule him out of the city. Those people made fun of Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) all throughout the way and even started pelting stones at him. When finally he was out of their sight and land, he was bleeding so profusely that even his shoes were drenched in blood. Then, on Allah's orders, Gabriel (AlayhiSalaam) came to him with an angel of mountains and asked Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) if he's want to punish the residents of Taif. Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) clearly refused. Rather he prayed to God that the city is blessed with guidance and may the most knowledgeable scholars of Islam come from it. He said they don't believe me now but may their children be blessed with guidance and serve Islam.

And this prayer was answered. Taif has produced great scholars of Islam, indeed.

Just wanted to point out that there is such an incident in Islamic history as well but I can't believe the one which you said because according to Islam, Christ (peace be upon him) was never crucified.

 

[Amigo]

Justice and love aren't exactly compatible.

If they are not compatible to you, that means your concept of either of them is wrong, therefore you not talking about true love and true justice.

True justice and true love are perfectly compatible. There can not be true justice without true love, for justice is a property of love.

I am not talking about popular ideas of love, whose variations are witness to their corruption and therefore falsehood. I am talking about the real things. If it is not true love it is not love, that's why I am not bothering adding the emphasis 'true' all the time. Same for justice.

God is perfect, there is no conflict in Him. If you believe this, it should not be hard to realise that in him, love and justice are at least compatible. In him, they are truly perfect and perfectly true.

 

[Ali_008]

^^^^ Brother Amigo, don't take out portions of my posts and interpret them out of context. Read the entire thing first and then respond. I have given an example of how love can come in the way of justice in my previous post. Go through it comprehensively.