What about Matthew 6:12 in the Lord's Prayer And forgive us our debts (Luke 11:4 says 'forgive us our sins'),as we also have forgiven our debtors. What debt could we owe to God except that of sin? In verse 14 Jesus is quoted as saying For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father (God) will also forgive you. He did not say, "If you believe that I am God in the flesh and that I will die on the cross for your sins, then your heavenly Father will forgive you your sins."
A very similar passage follows Jesus apparently cursing a fig tree in Mark 11:24-25 Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you. Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.
Not that I believe Jesus said this, but he is quoted as saying 'uour sins are forgiven in Matthew 9:2 and Mark 2:5 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, “Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.” There is no indication that the man even repented of his sins, but he was forgiven before Jesus' supposed death. If Jesus could forgive sins (I don't believe he can), then surely the Father could forgive sins per the Lord's Prayer.
Surely every Christian knows that 'blasphemy against the Spirit' will not be forgiven, but do they also know that every other sin shall be forgiven, presumably with repentance? Matthew 12:31 Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Note that blasphemy is an impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things. The Quran says in 19:88-92 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
Luke 7:46-47 gives another instance of forgiveness You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.”
Not that I believe Jesus was crucified, but he is quoted as saying on the cross, But Jesus was saying, “ Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves. Luke 23:34.
Where besides the letters of Paul is the doctrine of 'redemption through Christ' taught? Surely not on the lips of Jesus!
The way I see this is if we do believe he died for our sin or as you said, "If you believe that I am God in the flesh and that I will die on the cross for your sins...." then it will do you NO good if you don't forgive others for their sins against you. We are constantly sinning against God. Jesus said, in other places that "You will all die in your sin if you do not believe I am He"
A person can be forgiven by me or by God for certain sins but not others. For instance, Jesus said forgive for they know not what they do, God will forgive them for what they did to Jesus but not the rest of their sins unless they repent and do the will of God whch is to believe on Him whom He sent
Last edited by Burninglight; 02-13-2012 at 11:51 PM.
Where besides the letters of Paul is the doctrine of 'redemption through Christ' taught? Surely not on the lips of Jesus!
Read Isaiah 53
Look at John and can get others;16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Hi. Perhaps I can explain where Christians are coming from, so you will see the roots ... This is the PROPHET HOSEA--I do not know whether Hosea is RECOGNIZED BY YOU, but HERE IT IS:--FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE, Hosea 2:16...And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, [that] thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. The prophecy goes on to say that those WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE, WOULD BE HIS PEOPLE. Not JEWS in name only would be His, but those WHO OBEYED HIM would be--CIRCUMCISED IN HEART. <3+WENDY
Hi. Perhaps I can explain where Christians are coming from, so you will see the roots ... This is the PROPHET HOSEA--I do not know whether Hosea is RECOGNIZED BY YOU, but HERE IT IS:--FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE, Hosea 2:16.. The prophecy goes on to say that those WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE, WOULD BE HIS PEOPLE. Not JEWS in name only would be His, but those WHO OBEYED HIM would be--CIRCUMCISED IN HEART.
Greetings
I think you should have noted that your explanation of Hosea 2:16 ,is based on the Pauline Hermeneutic of
Romans 9:25 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’there they will be called ‘children of the living God .....
The Pauline exegesis of that passage of Hosea (and all the passages he quouted from the old testament) ,is nothing but a misapplication !
To begin with ,If you study the Hosea passages in their original contexts, the clear and unmistakable antecedent of the “people” in question is the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of ethnic Israel. not the Gentiles !
there are more problems with assuming the passage to be a prophecy of christianity ,but let's save it to another post...
A secular Jew said to the Rabi, if you can recite the entire Jewish scriptures the Tanakh, standing on one leg, then I shall renounce my ways and return to the synagogue.
The Rabi lifted one leg of the ground and said, ‘Hear o Israel the Lord your God is one. Thou shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbour as you love yourself, all the rest is commentary, and he put his foot down.
Jesus went on to say about the two greatest commandments, all the law and the prophets of God hang and depend on these two commandments. He gave the parable of the Good Samaritan, to explain these commandments, the Jews and the Samaritans were considered enemies.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Array
... This is the PROPHET HOSEA--I do not know whether Hosea is RECOGNIZED BY YOU, but HERE IT IS:--FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE, Hosea 2:16...And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, [that] thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. The prophecy goes on to say that those WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE, WOULD BE HIS PEOPLE. Not JEWS in name only would be His, but those WHO OBEYED HIM would be--CIRCUMCISED IN HEART. <3+WENDY
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks