Many Christians are Converting to Islam

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I see more things about love and peace during the times Jesus walked the earth recorded in the NT than the Quran. For instance, tThe Bible says love your enemies, bless those that curse you, pray for those who despitefully use you, but the Quran says kill the infidel wherver you find them.

the bible tells you about the "saints of the later days" i think the mormons tried to usurp the name, but the evidences are there:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 13

this speaks of a tyrannical government that is given power over all nations, and the people who oppose it have a specific law of retaliation:

ـٓأَيَّها ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ كُتِبَ عَلَيكُمُ ٱلقِصَاصُ فِى ٱلقَتلَى*ۖ ٱلحُرُّ بِٱلحُرِّ وَٱلعَبدُ بِٱلعَبدِ وَٱلأُنثَىٰ بِٱلأُنثَىٰ*ۚ فَمَنۡ عُفِىَ لَهُ ۥ مِنۡ أَخِيهِ شَىۡءٌ۬ )
فَٱتِّبَاعُۢ بِٱلمَعرُوفِ وَأَدَآءٌ إِلَيهِ بِإِحسَـٰنٍ۬*ۗ ذَٲلِكَ تَخفِيفٌ۬ مِّن رَّبِّكُمۡوَرَحمَةٌ۬*ۗ فَمَنِ ٱعتَدَىٰ بَعدَ ذَٲلِكَ فَلَهُ ۥ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ۬ ١٧٨(
وَلَكُمۡ فِى ٱلقِصَاصِ حَيَوٰةٌ۬ يَـٰأُوْلِى ٱلأَلبَـٰبِ لَعَلَّكُمۡ تَتَّقُونَ ) ١٧٩)

O you who believe! the law of retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain;
the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female;
but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then (the demand for the bloodwit)
should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good man*ner;
this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this, he shall have a painful chastisement
And there is life for you in the retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may (tattaqoon) guard your-selves/heed/restrain yourselves.
Quran 2:178-179

the verse someone quoted you out of context regarding "killing infidels" is elaborated in the next part of the same verse and the next verse which the debunkers don't quote:

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way.
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

this happened in response to the continuous breaking of covenants by the polytheists and one really tragic case,
the bellievers were instructed to take authority over the land.

bear in mind that Jesus (pbuh) spoke of the complete law that guides unto all truth.
and the description is there.

peace

Greetings of peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I don't understand why so many Christians are converting to Islam. What can a Muslim tell me to convince me that it is the way I should go? Am I missing something here? Sorry, but I just don't get it! What do you have that I don't already?

Well, there is a great difference between christianity and islaam, those individuals who chose to accept islaam as their faith did so by their own research and will, by seeking help from God.

The belief of christianity is quite different to islam, so you are missing quite a lot to be honest.

Islam: Belief of the oneness of God allmighty. A muslim believes that every messenger sent upon the earth came with a clear message which is that there is only one God and that the messenger was sent as a guidance/warner to his people/nations at specific times.

Christianity: Belief that the Father is God, Jesus is God. Quite frankly, i have no idea how important the prophets are to christians or whether they are aware of their purpose and what they were sent for, and also reading some of the verses of the bible these 'messenger's' are given no respect. I for one cannot accept God making mistakes, either these prophets are not prophets according to bible of the present day. But if I am incorrect feel free to correct me on that.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I looked at many testimonies and I felt like crying out of frustration. Most of the converts were Catholics. I was born and raised Catholic, but I could never identify with Catholism. I am just a simple Christian that believes in one Almighty God with no partners. Most conversions or what Muslims call reversions I listened to were based on what these ex Catholics felt. I believe that feelings make a wonderful servant but a very poor leader. I have also read the testimonies of Muslims that revert to Christianity or convert. These testimonies are different. They are based on divine intervention and not on what one felt right and good with.

I have to admit the so called 'tesminonies' i've watched on the net in regards to 'conversions from islam to christianity' really do not make sense, so i would also speak similarly as yourself.

One of the things I noticed that in most of those testimonies is that these 'muslims' have not heard of Jesus (p), although a muslim is not a muslim if he denies Jesus (p) meaning one of God's prophets, which ofcourse you may not agree with. There is a whole chapter in regards to the mother of jesus (p) in the noble Qur'aan, named 'Maryam' chapter 19, i recomend you read up on this inshaa'Allaah, since you've come on this forum with the intention of asking.

There are quite a lot of other differences, for example a muslim believes in the oneness of God, performs his 5 daily prayers, gives charity, fasts in the month of ramadhaan, performs pilmigrimage, so which of these do you follow as a christian? Which of these did Jesus (p) do?. I would sincerely recomend you read up on your books along with the Qur'aan, i hope that things would make sense to you, or become clear in regards to your faith and ours ..

Also, may I ask did you manage to see a previous post of mine on this thread?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Aprender (to learn) Can you speak Spanish?

Yes.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Well, the Quran 10:24 says that Muhammad should consult with them if he should doubt his prophet hood. Isn't that true? I guess Allah expects me to be people of the Book because he hasn't called me to the Quran.

The example of [this] worldly life is but like rain which We have sent down from the sky that the plants of the earth absorb - [those] from which men and livestock eat - until, when the earth has taken on its adornment and is beautified and its people suppose that they have capability over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day, and We make it as a harvest, as if it had not flourished yesterday. Thus do We explain in detail the signs for a people who give thought. (24) And Allah invites to the Home of Peace and guides whom He wills to a straight path (25)
Yunus [10:24-25]

Beautiful Surah in the Quran. There are many lessons to be learned from it. I think that the fact that you are trying to learn about Islam right now is enough. Like I said before, it took me 4 years before I decided to take my shahada and become a Muslim. It's usually not something that happens overnight although there are some that accept it much sooner than others. I went from being born and starting out in a Baptist church, to a Jehovah's Witness in my childhood, to considering Catholicism in my early teens to just non-denominational all together. I spent many nights crying and praying about what was happening but in the end Allah (swt) led me to Islam and alhamdulillah I haven't been happier. I asked for signs and He sent them directly to me.

Before I took my shahada, I read the Quran, studied the authenticity of it. Studied many of the scientific miracles in it. Then after that satisfied me I wasn't so sure that Muhammad (pbuh) was really a Prophet. I had heard from many Muslims that his name was prophesied in the Bible but removed. So I went to back to the Bible, earlier versions of it translated from earlier manuscripts and I studied that to see what in the world they were talking about. Now, some people say that it was a word that meant something else that was simply translated in Hebrew. So I went to the Hebrew, to listen to how it is pronounced when recited in the text.


Then of course I read about the Gospel of Barnabus, and how it was left out of later versions of the Bible? Why? Once I read it I saw why since it referred to Muhammad (pbuh). But I wanted to know more. How was this different from Jospeh Smith? So I read the Book of Mormon. Let's just say that was a dead end for me. Then I read some biographies about the life of Muhammad (pbuh) and that helped clarify a lot for me.

You could benefit by watching this video. This brother in the video used to be a Christian youth minister as well. If you think that Islam teaches a different teaching then this video will show you that what we do in Islam follows some of what was said in the Bible but is not currently practiced by many Christians today.



We encourage you to keep learning and keep asking questions, brother. And we will answer them for you. But first you really have to let go of all of the misconceptions, false information and other lies that you've heard and I also encourage you not to read the ignorant comments from atheists or people who hate Muslims and the Islamic religion from various YouTube videos as well. That's what I had to do. One minute it all makes sense then you read a comment from some miserable lost person and you're back to doubting everything again just the way Satan likes it.

Also, if you really want to know what Islam is like, I encourage you to visit a local mosque. Find a Muslim brother where you are and ask him questions and ask him to take you to the masjid. Before I converted I visited one. I was at first afraid to go in because I had heard all of these rumors about how I would be shouted at or disrespectful if I went in with my hair uncovered but that's not how it was at all. I asked one of the sisters to take me and give me a tour and to my surprise, two other sisters came with her that day and we all walked over to the masjid together. I was happy that I wasn't going alone. I noticed even while walking with them the blatant ignorance that people had toward Muslims. Giving the sisters nasty looks--we even got forced OFF of the sidewalk. The amazing thing about it was all of those sisters just smiled and kept on going to the masjid like it was nothing. Back in my old neighborhood if someone did that it was grounds for being kicked.

When I got there, no one made me put on a hijab but I had to take off my shoes. Then we went and we did wudu and went upstairs to the prayer area. SubhaanAllah it was soo peaceful and lovely in there. I had never been in a place quite like it. There was a sister there watching the sunset out of a window and when I looked at her she smiled. She looked like she was in a very serene place. I really just wanted to stay there all night. I didn't want to leave but I had a class that I had to get to. No one tried to blow me up. No one shouted at me. No one was rolling around on the floor shaking and speaking in tongues like they do at some churches. It was just very calm, very serene and a great place to be. I couldn't even explain the feeling I was feeling to myself if this place was supposed to be bad. So, before I left, I got an English translation of the Quran and that was the first time I had read the whole thing. Nothing about murdering all non-believers and killing everyone on the street. Think about it. Over one billion Muslims in the world. If the religion taught to kill all non-Muslims the world population wouldn't be where it is right now. What I learned from the Quran was quite the opposite of everything that I was told about the religion and everything that I was told about my own Christian religion was quite the opposite of what I learned by going directly to the Biblical texts and studying them.

Keep searching. Keep asking questions and keep looking. May Allah have mercy on us all and may He, The Most Exalted, help you find the truth and the peace that you are looking for in your heart. Ameeeen

As a former Christian and now a recent revert to Islam, I can understand why other christians became Muslims. The concept of God is much clearer in Islam than it is in christianity. I never understood how Jesus pbuh could be a man and God if God is so beyond our imagination. I believe God to be greater than a human being. Unfortunately this is why little kids today view God as a man in the sky, alhamdulilah i found islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender

We encourage you to keep learning and keep asking questions, brother.

Well, that was a very nice presentation it was long but thorough. The person has the gift of teaching. You are very intelligient. He said something about women. That they are like a diamond and treated the same. A Muslim man told me "If someone threw two pieces of candy on the floor and one was wrapped and the other not which would you take?" I said the wrapped; he said, "That is how we treat our women" I have heard the man in the video say that women are not to be oppressed; then, he said not to be oppressed without a reason.

So Women are looked at and treated as if they were property, and they are at the subjective mercy of their men based on whether they should be oppressed or not. They are even taught how they are to beat their women to avoid oppressing them. Hmm, how about teaching men not to beat them at all to avoid oppression?

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender

Before I took my shahada, I read the Quran, studied the authenticity of it. Studied many of the scientific miracles in it. Then after that satisfied me I wasn't so sure that Muhammad (pbuh) was really a Prophet. I had heard from many Muslims that his name was prophesied in the Bible but removed.

My sister I just cannot handle your testimony, it makes my heart weep. I listened to what you sent, but it doesn't bear witness with my spirit, and I wonder how it did with yours. You weren't sure about Muhammad; I can relate to that. The Torah states that Ishmael will be blessed and be turned into a great nation for Abraham's sake, but no prophets were to come from Him. Muslims teach that this is a corruption of Scripture. But how?

Allah promised that his word would not be altered, Since Gen 21:12 and 17:21 don't confirm Muhammad's prophet hood, we are taught it is a corruption. Muhammad never said such a thing about the Torah but doubted himself to where Allah told him to confirm it with the Scriptures that came before and us people of the Book of what once you used to be S 10:94. My sister have you read Gal. 3: 1-12?

Why would Allah tell Muhammad to confirm his ministry with corrupted Scruptures?

The guy on the video taught that we must do 5 deeds and one is to confess Muhammad as God's prophet. So you must confess the name of non deity (a slave of Allah) or you cannot be Muslim. I know Muslims don't pray to Muhammad and don't see him a son of God like we see Jesus, but you must associate his name in mention with Allah or you cannot be a Muslim, Hmm. That to me, is ascribing and associating a name with Allah like the verse the guy mentioned in the video "that if you shall confess with your mouth Jesus.."

So Muslims do what they accuse us Christians of to a lessor degree by having to mention the name Muhammmad.
I also listen to that clip and the word muhammadim which is used as an adjective meaning all together lovely. Sorry, I will still ask and search, but I am back at square one my sister. I asked you about those three entities and instead of answering my question you admonished me not to look at certain sites. Why is it said that Muhammad gave a prohecy concerinng the three cranes whose intercession is hoped for? Otherwise known as Satanic verses? You tell me the story behind it. Is it true or not?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I don't really look at it that way I just see it that I worship the one true God.

try to look up the definition of "delusion"
some people who have delusion claim that what they feel/experience is real, but it is not.

By your assertion, a hindu is also monotheist, because they claim they worship one ture god.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Jesus doesn't say He is God but He alludes to it and I accept that he is God's son like He claims.

Jesus also said not to worship him, but to worship God alone. And yet christians worship jesus (pbuh).
God also says he has many sons, so why don't you also worship david, ibrahim, adam (pbut)?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

The Scriptures say He is and yours say He's not.

I kept asking where jesus ACTUALLY said he is god or part of god and that you should worship him.

You keep EVADING my questions.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

My question is why would I want ot believe Muhammad over Jesus?

Because Muhammad (saw) confirmed the true message of Jesus (pbuh).

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Yea, I guess I can relate to what your saying here, but I believe there is only one God.

So God's name is Jesus?
How about Holy spirit? he is God too according to christians, and yet christians seem to have neglected him?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I know you don't ask anything from Muhammad and you don't pray to him or see him as divine. I didn't say you did. I said you must mention his name with Allah or you cannot be Muslim or in the religion of Islam.

If we said that We believe there is no God but Allah and Muhammad, than yes, you can say we associate Allah with Muhammad (saw).
Just like what christians who believe in the father, the son, and the holy spirit as God.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I will look on the other threads to answer your question, but I am not sure which one you're referring to.
peace

You kept evading my post #8 and #15 in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...hristians.html

Most importantly, I asked you about Jesus' ACTUAL words, and you haven't provided any.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

I kept asking where jesus ACTUALLY said he is god or part of god and that you should worship him.

You keep EVADING my questions.

I am sorry, I am not doing it on purpose. I lose track because I am innondated with posts. If you could show or tell me what I missed I will try to answer

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

try to look up the definition of "delusion"
some people who have delusion claim that what they feel/experience is real, but it is not.

By your assertion, a hindu is also monotheist, because they claim they worship one ture god.

So you are basically calling me delusional? I don't get what you mean by Hindus being monotheistic; they don't even share the same prophets we do.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

Jesus also said not to worship him, but to worship God alone. And yet christians worship jesus (pbuh).
God also says he has many sons, so why don't you also worship david, ibrahim, adam (pbut)?

Where does Jesus say don't worship me in the Bible? If he said that, that would lean me more to Islam than ever before. You aren't making true statments are you?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

I kept asking where jesus ACTUALLY said he is god or part of god and that you should worship him.

You keep EVADING my questions.

You already know what the Christian answers are to these questions. Show me where Jesus said He wasn't deity or God's son or where He said not to worship Him.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

So God's name is Jesus?
How about Holy spirit? he is God too according to christians, and yet christians seem to have neglected him?

Jesus is the name of God's son who is also God's word in the flesh

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

If we said that We believe there is no God but Allah and Muhammad, than yes, you can say we associate Allah with Muhammad (saw).
Just like what christians who believe in the father, the son, and the holy spirit as God.

I understand, but you do associate the name of your prophet with Allah by the sear fact that you MUST mention the name of Muhammad or you cannot be Muslim or have any part in Islam. Is this not true, Yes or No?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

Most importantly, I asked you about Jesus' ACTUAL words, and you haven't provided any.

Jesus said, "You will die in your sins if you do not believe I am He....No man comes to God except through me...Before Abraham was I am.... I am the door...I am the beginning and the end...If you have seen me, you have seen the father; You say I blaspheme because I say I am the son of God... I am the truth, way and the life... I have the keys to hell and death... I come to judge the living and the dead... you believe in God believe also in me" shall I go on?

I didn't answer post 8 because I didn't see a question, but I answered 15 in this thread post 73
PBUT

format_quote Originally Posted by tayib786

SORRY IF THE POST IS LATE
asalamualaiukum
dear brother or sister
i think the reason why so many non muslims are converting to islam is that they can see the greatness of islam and they love the fact that they believe in the true and authentic yet peaceful religion
moreover i also think that they become Muslims because they have seen miracles such as a person being cured by the name of Allah yet the doctors couldn't prove, Christians may have also converted because they know that Islam is a way of life and its holy book the quran hasn't been altered by man as the other books have.
another reason why Christians become Muslims is that they are inspired by the nature of Islam or are just inspired by their fellow Muslim brothers or sisters;the way they act and the way they talk.their whole personality is filled with tenderness
brother or sister i am sure there are many reasons why they convert/ed but this is all i could think of after talking to a few friends
hope i have supported your opinion.
wasalamualaikum

I can see the greatness of islam too.
I see many miracles happen in the name of Jesus
I am inspired by the love Christians have for one another
Christianity is a way of life as well
The Bible is not corrupted; If someone took the Quran and added some verses to it and translated it into English with some errors but scholars know what interpolation were injected and why; if they know the correct words for the negligible translational errors they wouldn't consider the Quran corrupted to the point of not knowing God's or Allah's word and will. Well it is the same with the Bible

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I didn't answer post 8, because there was no question asked.

You are not blind and you are not illiterate.
Here's what I asked:

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

I asked you, I want Jesus' ACTUAL words, not your own words.
Where is it?

You claimed that Jesus (pbuh) said he has a father in heaven. You have not given me Jesus' (pbuh) ACTUAL words.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I don't imagine I believe God is one; I know He is! I never mentioned the word inferior, I said subordinate but equal in nature.

Yes, a hindu also claimed they are monotheistic, but do you agree that hindus are monotheistic?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I believe the KJV is a translation error when it uses the word begotten!

You keep saying that bible has translation error, but NOT once you gave us the original so that we can compare if there was a translation error.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I am sorry, I am not doing it on purpose. I lose track because I am innondated with posts. If you could show or tell me what I missed I will try to answer

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...hristians.html


Post #8 and #15

Please answer them.

I will keep reminding you to answer them.

If you believe christianity is the truth, surely you are not afraid of those questions and surely you have the answers.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

You seem to me to be a very nice person. So you are not sure how Allah guided you, but you are thankful he did? Am I understanding correctly? This frustrately leaves me back at square one. I see more things about love and peace during the times Jesus walked the earth recorded in the NT than the Quran. For instance, tThe Bible says love your enemies, bless those that curse you, pray for those who despitefully use you, but the Quran says kill the infidel wherver you find them. There are different kinds of Islam: radical and peaceful Muslim like yourself. If I became a Muslim, I would probably be bent of being radical. So how will radical and peaceful Muslim get along?

Hehehe you are fun and you made my day Brother

The truth I dont have a sure hint, but I have little idea, perhaps its because I always wanted to live simple, though I am a woman I can say I am not material, I appreciate peace & justice more than love that's why Islam appeals alot to me, I always pray good things for others even if they hurt me somehow.

That's it I think, because if I say I am kind and generous and cute
oh Allah does not love that, its a sign of PROUDness, and there is no cure of being PROUD

Personally I do not believe in labeling or classifying, there is only ONE true & perfect RELIGION: and so "MUSLIMs" are the only follower of ISLAM

Islam teaches us to pray to One God, have good intention all the time, treat others the way we wanted to be treated, be kind to parents, family & neighbours but if someone attack us & cause destruction we should not hide and run away far, we should keep faith that Allah is with us and defend ourselves in ISLAMIC way, which is called JIHAD, basically Muslim must not start a war, we must spread peace, and also we are not allowed to kill children or women.

I hope you can see this video, I can see it's a bit mean but then, alhamdollellah the Christian Brother seems kind and sport

Luke 19:27
Jesus said: And as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king--bring them in and kill them right here in front of me.






Please do not misunderstand though I dont have complete knowledge about it, Jihad is in many forms. and the best one as our Prophet himself (saws) said that the greatest jihad is the jihad of self, and it is one that I fight every day.

Jihad means striving for the cause of Allah, The spiritual struggle within oneself against sin.

For example, when I was non Muslim I do not wear Hijab, I do not like it immediately after reversion, but I did it successfully to please Allah, it is both kind of JIHAD: ----- before (when I do not like) and now (that I love wearing it).

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

So you are basically calling me delusional? I don't get what you mean by Hindus being monotheistic; they don't even share the same prophets we do.

monotheistic means believe in one god. I hope you actually understand the term?

Hindus CLAIM they believe in one god. So, according to your criteria, hindus are monotheistic as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Where does Jesus say don't worship me in the Bible? If he said that, that would lean me more to Islam than ever before. You aren't making true statments are you?

Here's the commandments thaat all christians are breaking by worshiping jesus (pbuh):

Thou shalt have none other gods before me
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

(Matthew 15:9):
“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

Men make all doctrines of modern Christianity: the Trinity, Divine Sonship of Jesus, Divinity of Jesus Christ, Original Sin and Atonement.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

You already know what the Christian answers are to these questions.

No, I don't know.
Please tell us Jesus' ACTUAL words. Do not keep evading my questions if you believe that christianity is the truth.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Jesus is the name of God's son who is also God's word in the flesh

So God has a son named Jesus. and jesus is your subordinate God.
I see that christians believe God has sons named Adam, Jacob, Solomon, Ephraim, Common people, and Jesus.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I understand, but you do associate the name of your prophet with Allah by the sear fact that you MUST mention the name of Muhammad or you cannot be Muslim or have any part in Islam. Is this not true, Yes or No?

Logic has failed you my friend.
The burden is on you that we associate Allah with Muhammad (saw).

I give you a basic example of logic:
I believe priest X is child abuser. I believe Burninglight is a christian.

Does this mean I associate you with child abuser priest X?

Is this not true, Yes or No?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Jesus said, "You will die in your sins if you do not believe I am He....No man comes to God except through me...Before Abraham was I am.... I am the door...I am the beginning and the end...If you have seen me, you have seen the father; You say I blaspheme because I say I am the son of God... I am the truth, way and the life... I have the keys to hell and death... I come to judge the living and the dead... you believe in God believe also in me" shall I go on?

Again, I asked:

I want you to show me Jesus' ACTUAL WORDS

not your own words please.....

Greetings of peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Yes, there is a night and day difference. Yes, it is my understanding as well people become Muslims from their own research and will, but I don't see God's hand.

God's hand as in God's blessings, benefits right? As far as I am aware I can see god's 'hand' (not in literal terms ofcourse). Let's say for example one has commited a sin, does that mean our world is over? no ofcourse not, but does it mean we can continue to sin, again, nope! If we follow the teachings of God it is repenting, repenting with the intention of not doing that sin over again. God Allmighty explains to us that he is the forgiver, and the sins will be forgiven if you are sincere and fulfill the conditions in order to be forgiven. Tell me do you not see God's hand in this? When an individual embraces Islam, their slate is clean, therefore becoming sinless like a pure child.

Another example, giving charity to those in need, this is from the teachings of God, and much more one is required to do to obey God, none of that which God commands for us to do is harmful for ourselves if only we obey. You may well say that the bible teaches the same, and I will agree on that, that Jesus (p) did teach these, he was most certainly sent by God.

Commandments of enjoing good and forbidding the evil. Is not God's 'hand' in this, why would he tell us to forbid what is harmful for us where we are then safe and enjoin the good where we have recieved numerous amounts of benefits.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

Jesus is the name of God's son who is also God's word in the flesh

Abraham, Moses, unto the final messenger Muhammad (p) were all God's word in flesh!

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

What I am I missing that I don't have now?

Well, I was stating the differences that I am aware of between christianity and islaam, and I mentioned 5 daily prayers, oneness of God etc. As you asked

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

What do you have that I don't already?

So do you pray 5 times a day, thanking God in every step you take in doing a certain action, perform pilgrimage etc etc. The modesty prescribed for both men and women, from God. There may well be more. Usually some of these are indications to show one is muslim, these are differences, something you do not have whereas muslims do. However, I believe the bible has commanded the modest dress code. But it's about who is actually implementing the teachings of their holy book.

Is not your goal as a christian to follow Jesus (p) in what he did in his daily life? Did he not come to fulfill the will of God? Following him as he is the way the kingdom of God? I agree on all this, what I disagree with is that you say Jesus is God whereas you also believe in a father, and Jesus also worshipped/prayed to the father. And then you state there you believe in the oneness of God.

If you did just this i.e. believe in one God, and believe that he sent his messengers to mankind with a message to guide them, meaning all his messengers i.e unto the final messenger Muhammad (p) and those who choose to follow them they are the successful ones indeed, you would be considered a 'muslim', btw a muslim is one who submits to the will of God, do you not submit to the will of God? If not, state your reasons.

If not, is it either because you don't want to be part of the 'islamic' faith, wheras islam is only a complete way of life that all prophets and messengers followed. You have disagreements on certain issues, then ask!

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

We believe in the oness of God; you don't believe we do. That is not my problem.

No, it is problem for me when there are those who associate partners with allmighty God when he never asked of this. Are you speaking for all christians? Do you worship the father in heaven or Jesus (p)?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

The respect you show to prophet Muahmmad seems to Christians to be on the bordline of idolatry. We see the apostles as about

But was Jesus (p) not a person? If the respect we show to Muhammad (p) was similar to idolatry, then why did you state this in response to br.Ramadhaan

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I know you don't ask anything from Muhammad and you don't pray to him or see him as divine.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

The respect you show to prophet Muahmmad seems to Christians to be on the bordline of idolatry.

Isn't idoltry, worshipping something? over praising one? If you see a certain individual doing this, does this mean that the Qur'aan teaches this? As you may know that prophet Muhammad (p) was the same man who destroyed many idols, so if any individual claims of worshipping him then they are clearly not following his (Muhammad's (p)) teachings.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

so we see Jesus as God's word inacarnate and therefore deity.

You see Jesus (p) as God's word incarnate and therefore deity, thus making 2 god's right? Why can you not accept that he was one who was sent with the message? Have you not read the story of Moses? of Noah? Why were those who associate partners with God destroyed besides those who were with Moses i.e his followers, or Noah or many other messengers, why weren't they destroyed?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

"I am the Way and truth...."

All prophets were the way and the truth, were the prophets sent to misguide their people? These prophets came with a 'true' message and they all said 'Fear God and follow me'.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

In the Bible Jesus is refered to by many titles that can only be said of God such as Mighty God Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace and the list goes on and on/

Prophet Muhammad (p) was known by many names also. However, many names were attributed to God allmighty, such as All knowing, All seeying, The most forgiving, the most merciful etc.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

The only thing we have to follow is love God with all our being and our neighbor as ourself. This fufills all the law and the prophets. As far as prayer we are to pray without ceasing not at any appointed time but anytime. We can pray while washing dishes or driving a car. Prayer is communiction with God it is not just us speaking our piece but letting God speak His to us as well.

You are indeed correct. There is no doubt in that. Indeed as humans we have the ability to pray anytime, anywhere, which consists of raising ones hand and calling upon his lord, just like Jesus did in the bible (Ref.John 17-1) , the prayer I am speaking of is when one bows, prostrates etc. Although this can be prayed everywhere
We should be indeed grateful to God that we are able to ask of him anywhere and anytime.

May I ask then why did Jesus (p) pray?

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

No, I didn't see yyour other thread

I believe I mentioned this thread..

format_quote Originally Posted by Ğħαrєєвαħ

previous post of mine on this thread?

post 27#


I hope that we can all have a positive and peaceful discussion God willingly. lol I don't how I manage to get my posts to be huge :\, Burninglight, please take your time in responding.