We all argue that something cannot come from nothing when an atheist tries to prove his point you say god created us. But I am just curious how did nothing become into something which became god? I am not here to argue against anyones responses but just would like to hear people's opinions.
I also ask these questions. The universe could be eternal. It could have spun off from another universe that is eternal. As the wise person above said, "We Do Not Know". There is no shame in admitting the limits of your knowledge, that is actually a strength
Entirely possible, it might just be that the current understanding of cosmology (general relativity, which indeed points to the universe being of finite age and having been born out of not even nothingness) is wrong, and that the universe/multiverse is eternal after all. But to trust, entirely in the absence of empirical evidence, that we're in such a cosmology, well, some might call that "blind faith"
"Perfection" is a subjective. When you tell me something is "perfect" you are not telling anything unless you tell me what you desire.
I can see how it seem subjective, but 'perfect good' was assumed but I should have been more clear.
I know we hear saying like 'perfect lies, perfect murder, perfect evil' but this is like perfect imperfection. These sayings are not logical.
What is truly perfect is also true good/harmony/order/beauty/... (all of these are summarized in a word known as Holy). So no oppositions, negativity or contradictions can came from perfection.
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
How is it logical? I have been staring at this empty plate in front of me hoping it would sprout some filet mignon & shoestring fries how long do you propose I wait before that happens?
Whatever you propose will in fact be a conjecture, leaving no atheist any room at absolute scientific evidence and even less room to mock other impressions of what the truth actually is.
best,
Sorry I hadnt realised you had quoted me,
Well if we leave it as a hypothesis or even a possible precedent we dont need to ask why such a thing should follow through - in the same way you cannot deductively prove the existence of an omnibenevolent, omnipotentent, incorporeal, omniscient...etc. Creator
We can reject the hypothesis as long as we can show the hypothesis leads to a contradiction however.
I am curious. This question is directed towards the religious. You say god has put us on this earth as a test for the afterlife. People who do bad deeds will go to eternal hell and people who do good deeds will go to paradise. But if there actually is "god" why create us in the first place and put all sorts of tests on us and send each either to eternal paradise or eternal hell? Wouldn't it be easier if he did not have to keep an eye on 2.5 billion muslims across the earth. What is the point of creating us giving us a conscious mind and then making some of us who suffered go to eternal hell ? It really doesn't add up.
But if there actually is "god" why create us in the first place and put all sorts of tests on us and send each either to eternal paradise or eternal hell?
In the Quran.. the angels asked God why He would want to create humans and make us a leader on the earth when we are prone to disobedience as opposed to the angels who obey Him perfectly. God replied "I know what you know not.".
I think we can all agree that only the Creator is qualified to give an answer like that. We as human beings have limited knowledge, if you refuse to admit that then there is no point in continuing.
One has to wonder why the human being is given the gift of not only being the most intelligent but also the physical ability to put our ideas into practice. If we have our intelligence but have a body of a rabbit then there's not much we can do anyway. Yet, we are unique in this sense that we are the dominant species on the earth.
Shouldn't we use our intelligence to find the purpose of our existence? Don't you think there is something beautiful in the dominant species submitting itself to its creator? We "discover" God, we "try and fail". We have to go through a journey of knowledge and humility to find our Creator. This is very different from the angels who are already perfect.
We were not created in vain. We were created to worship our Creator.
format_quote Originally Posted by joboman24
Wouldn't it be easier if he did not have to keep an eye on 2.5 billion muslims across the earth.
I don't think there is such a thing as something being easier or harder when it comes to God. If you look up the 99 Attributes Of God(there are more 99 is what is generally known) you will see that some of those attributes are The All-knowing. He knows what we do in open and in secret. He knows what our true intentions are. He knows whether I participate in these forums to build my own ego or to sincerely join in discussions with the intention of finding truth.
format_quote Originally Posted by joboman24
What is the point of creating us giving us a conscious mind and then making some of us who suffered go to eternal hell ?
As this is pretty much the same question as above I won't give another answer, though I would repeat that our purpose is to worship god. Our purpose is not go to hell, our purpose is to go to heaven. However, the wrongdoers(such as opressors) among us will go to Hell. It is not in my place to say who is going and who isn't.
format_quote Originally Posted by joboman24
It really doesn't add up.
All I can say is study more, put aside your ego. This goes for myself as well.
Personally I think you ask relevant questions, but as I have said before if your intention is to "win" then there is no point, if your intention is to learn then I think the members here will be happy to try their best at answering your questions. Bear in mind that we ourselves are learners, human beings, sometimes we let our ego get the better of us. I personally don't like continuing when the other party shows signs of arrogance because once that is established his intention is damaged and its no longer about finding truth but about winning for the sake of winning.
I am curious. This question is directed towards the religious. You say god has put us on this earth as a test for the afterlife.
People who do bad deeds will go to eternal hell and people who do good deeds will go to paradise. But if there actually is "god" why create us in the first place and put all sorts of tests on us and send each either to eternal paradise or eternal hell? Wouldn't it be easier if he did not have to keep an eye on 2.5 billion muslims across the earth. What is the point of creating us giving us a conscious mind and then making some of us who suffered go to eternal hell ? It really doesn't add up.
I don't know.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
But if there actually is "god" why create us in the first place and put all sorts of tests on us and send each either to eternal paradise or eternal hell?
If we have a faith and trust in God, then we have to do something.
How can one measure time if time doesn't exist? One (God) would have to create time... in order to create - a beginning... but not HIS beginning, but the beginning of time... you see?
HE exists in a space outside of time... a different dimension, where time is not a factor.
So the question - origin of God, is something which is beyond our scope of understanding. Because we are int hat space/time dimension that he created...
Imagine a goldfish in a bowl -looking at a human wondering "has this human always existed?" with its 3 second memory... see what at I'm getting at here... it just doesn't work...
Burning braincells over it is futile - accepting it, is the opposite. It leads to understanding that we don't have all the answers, but HE does...
...and then, we go and look to texts to see what HE has said about the universe, creations, and HIS own magnificent existence... see?
Burning braincells over it is futile - accepting it, is the opposite. It leads to understanding that we don't have all the answers, but HE does...
I think this is a major part of what leads to belief in God(s). We have to at some point admit we don't have all the answers, and we don't like that very much. We feel a need to "know" the answers so we invent Gods and fill the gaps with them. The gaps get smaller as we learn more (we used to explain thunder and lightning with Gods) but there will always be gaps so there will always be room for Gods.
I think this is a major part of what leads to belief in God(s). We have to at some point admit we don't have all the answers, and we don't like that very much. We feel a need to "know" the answers so we invent Gods and fill the gaps with them. The gaps get smaller as we learn more (we used to explain thunder and lightning with Gods) but there will always be gaps so there will always be room for Gods.
huh.
your answer assumes the fact that we dont invoke God for the things for which we have answers. I still believe thunder and lightning is caused by God. I still believe that a God creates a human embryo, despite knowing that a sperm and egg meet to create a zygote.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
your answer assumes the fact that we dont invoke God for the things for which we have answers. I still believe thunder and lightning is caused by God. I still believe that a God creates a human embryo, despite knowing that a sperm and egg meet to create a zygote.
I've never understood why it is assumed that belief in a Creator is a shortcut to "understanding" the nature of the universe. It reminds me of the old "Science and Religion are opposites" idea.
Religion in essence is the belief that the universe has a Creator. Science is the study of the universe. To say that Science and Religion are opposites is like saying a Macbook factory and a Macbook manual are opposites. We can understand how the Macbook works by studying it with the manual, but it certainly doesn't make us assume that the laptop doesn't have a manufacturer. In fact it would make more sense to conclude that it does have a manufacturer.
The laws of the universe are ordained by its Creator. (Which we are a part of). Part of the law ordained to us is the ability to recognise and study these laws and use it to our advantage. We call it science. By no means does "science" proof that there is no God and to believe in God is certainly not some kind of "cop out" of a logical explanation.
I think this is a major part of what leads to belief in God(s). We have to at some point admit we don't have all the answers, and we don't like that very much. We feel a need to "know" the answers so we invent Gods and fill the gaps with them. The gaps get smaller as we learn more (we used to explain thunder and lightning with Gods) but there will always be gaps so there will always be room for Gods.
Peace brother
I think you'll find that not 85% of the world population have "invented" God. It is a natural thing, because God DOES exist. Let us look at this little story:
A person was aboard a ship who was an atheist. As they continued their journet, strong violent winds started to blow and they ship nearly toppled over. The atheist cried out "O God, save us."....etc.etc.
and then let us look at what the Qur'aan has to say about this:
"It is He who conveys you on both land and sea so that when some of you are on a boat, running before a fair wind, rejoicing at it, and then a violent squall comes upon them and the waves come at them from every side and they realize there is no way of escape. They call on Allah, making their religion sincerely His: "If You rescue us from this, we will truly be among the thankful." But then, when He does rescue them, they become rebellious on the earth without any right to do so. Mankind, your rebelliousness is only against yourselves. There is the enjoyment of the life of the world but then you will return to Us, and We will inform you about what you did."
[Qur'aan, Chapter 10, Verses 22-23]
When encountered with a life-threatening situation, all false idols, such as wealth, children, education, spouses which some people take, are made meaningless. He realises that the only god is Allah, and he has no protector except Allah. This is identified in the following Verse:
"When harm occurs to you at sea, those you call on vanish - except for Him alone! But when He delivers you to dry land, you turn away. Man truly is ungrateful. Do you feel secure against Him causing the shore to swallow you up or sending against you a sudden squall of stones? Then you will find no one to be your guardian."
[Qur'aan, Chapter 17, Verses 67-68]
“Indeed the patient will be given their reward without account.” :love: { Qur’aan, Chapter 39, Verse 10 }
hafiza you do have to realize while 85% of the population believes in a "god" that it is the cause of it being passed on from generation to generation from 1000+years ago and people in most cultures either didn't have the right to believing in no god otherwise they would be disowned by their family or the lack of education about other things in life such as philosophy. As you can clearly see the last decade the trend is going harder than it ever has in history towards agonistisicm/atheism.
I was born Muslim, thru my own choices in my late teens and early twenties - i became an unbeliever... I was a crook. Had it all man. Cars, women, cash, name it...
...So why am I a Muslim again?
I didn't want to be - let me tell you that. This is what happened - I was shown "signs", given to me by God. I ignored them at first. But they became more frequent... I fell into a depression despite having it all. I was in a contradiction. I was being shown a way, a path - but I didn't want to walk it, because I didn't want to trust it. my trust issues ensured that this was difficullt for me, and so, I ignored these signs at the behest of falling into an even deeper depression.
Then one day I had enough. And I submitted fully, willingly, knowingly - that this is it. I cannot ignore these signs. I have to act on them. BEST DECISION I EVER MADE...
Science doesn't have all the answers, in fact - science doesn't even have 1/100th of the answers... but when God shows you something, it is absolute. There is no denying it, for denying it - is denying yourself - and that, leads to depression, and worse.
The opposite of depression, the polar opposite - can be found in true submission to Allah, the ONE, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds, The King of Kings, the Mightiest Most Wise, Most Merciful, Oft Forgiving.
Submission. This is Islam. This is Truth. This is Peace.
If you want to talk about where the "trend" is going then we can't ignore that Islam is/if not the fastest growing religion in the world. Atheism is actually now integrated into pop culture and presented as a "logical" ideology for people who are all about science and being all logical. It is incredibly attractive on the surface to an average person who doesn't take the time to analyse it from all angles. (That said, I'm not saying all atheists are like this.)
Islam if anything is viewed in a negative light in pop culture(maybe not pop c but at least in the news) and is often presented as a religion with a bunch of crazy people who hate everything. There was even an issue or some sort of conspiracy that Obama might be muslim. The average person who doesn't take the time to analyse it from all angles would just accept it. Yet the religion is still growing because there are still people who choose to look beyond what they are presented with by the media. They study it on their own.
Personally I think the speed of growth of your particular belief or disbelief is not a strong argument of its authenticity (though I won't say it doesn't play a part).
I also think that the atheists who were athiest before it was "cool" can probably give a better argument than the atheists who are so without having spent much thought on the subject. I've seen so many logically fallacious "quotes" for atheism receiving so many validation its ridiculous. If anything it is proof that atheism has joined the ranks of having members who follow without analysing.
Before I am misunderstood as saying that all atheists are blind followers, I believe that there are a lot of validity in the questions that atheists have, sadly I think a lot of them assumes that those questions cannot be answered.
hafiza you do have to realize while 85% of the population believes in a "god" that it is the cause of it being passed on from generation to generation from 1000+years ago and people in most cultures either didn't have the right to believing in no god otherwise they would be disowned by their family or the lack of education about other things in life such as philosophy. As you can clearly see the last decade the trend is going harder than it ever has in history towards agonistisicm/atheism.
I agree that the "trend" of agonistisicm/atheism is increasing, because that is all it is, a trend. It is not a belief and not a way of life.
Maybe they did in the past, but it doesn't matter if someone disowns anyone in the current day and age, so why are people trying to learn about Islaam everyday? Why are lots of people reverting to Islaam everyday? Surely there is something in Islaam that causes people to revert? To them, God wasn't "passed on" from generation to generation?
“Indeed the patient will be given their reward without account.” :love: { Qur’aan, Chapter 39, Verse 10 }
I was born Muslim, thru my own choices in my late teens and early twenties - i became an unbeliever... I was a crook. Had it all man. Cars, women, cash, name it...
...So why am I a Muslim again?
I didn't want to be - let me tell you that. This is what happened - I was shown "signs", given to me by God. I ignored them at first. But they became more frequent... I fell into a depression despite having it all. I was in a contradiction. I was being shown a way, a path - but I didn't want to walk it, because I didn't want to trust it. my trust issues ensured that this was difficullt for me, and so, I ignored these signs at the behest of falling into an even deeper depression.
Then one day I had enough. And I submitted fully, willingly, knowingly - that this is it. I cannot ignore these signs. I have to act on them. BEST DECISION I EVER MADE...
Science doesn't have all the answers, in fact - science doesn't even have 1/100th of the answers... but when God shows you something, it is absolute. There is no denying it, for denying it - is denying yourself - and that, leads to depression, and worse.
The opposite of depression, the polar opposite - can be found in true submission to Allah, the ONE, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds, The King of Kings, the Mightiest Most Wise, Most Merciful, Oft Forgiving.
Submission. This is Islam. This is Truth. This is Peace.
Scimi
Salam bro, do you mind sharing these 'signs' or could you pm me.
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I also ask these questions. The universe could be eternal. It could have spun off from another universe that is eternal. As the wise person above said, "We Do Not Know". There is no shame in admitting the limits of your knowledge, that is actually a strength
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