I would like to ask the Muslims, what do you think of Hindu's concept of reincarnation? My best friend is a devotee of the Hare Krishna movement. I had a talk with him regarding this and he told me that our belief of rebirth is illogical. He do not see the logic in living, then die and brought back to live again. I told him that I respect his belief but I reject it.
I told him since the concept of reincarnation is doing good deeds and from my understanding, the best form to reincarnate into is a to be a human being. Now, we all know human population is increasing, and the sins of the world is increasing too. How does this concept hold any truth now? But my best friend explains to me that if we dig our hands into the sand and pull it out, we can find many insects and he believed there are plenty of ants around. I agree. But in my mind I was thinking, isn't the whole animal kingdom decreasing? If not, why is there conservation efforts to retain all the animals? It is proven that the animal kingdom is decreasing due to habitat destruction, over-fishing and many other factors. He also points out that if God is merciful why are there people born with disabilities?
Now again the number of people with disability is on the decline, some facts I got from a news article here. So how does the concept of samsara or reincarnation holds any truth? The facts of the world does not support it. I lastly asked my best friend, when will the cycle stop? He answered that when the individual submits to God. So what I'm thinking is from my point of view, only humans have free will. Once you lead a bad life here and reincarnate to be an animal, wouldn't that cycle stop since the whole of nature submits to the will of God?
I do not want to offend my best friend cause he is a good guy, and neither do I want to offend any Hindu brothers here. I just want to hear what are your logical thoughts about reincarnation.
Hulk it is not the point to argue whether myself an "agnostic/atheist" believes that whether an animal is any more or less than a human being. I agree that human beings are the most developed and complex form of animals in terms of the human brain. But why does the complexity of the human brain to a less inferior human brain gives us anymore a right to kill them and eat them? If you are eating meat doesn't this directly support the fact that we are animals as well but just a more complex form and since we have the resources to kill other animals inferior in capabilities to us we have the right to? Us killing and eating meat and chicken is just like a lion in the jungle hunting down a deer. They are supreme to the deer in terms of physical and mental capabilities as are us humans compared to chicken and cow or whatever other animal we eat. I believe it is an utter and complete contradiction for any book of religion not specifically stating or directing toward one to talk about morality in such great detail then go and use a double standard/contradiction for their selfish needs. I have been a vegetarian my whole life and I live a completely normal life. I am stronger than 99% of the population because I go to the gym work out and eat healthy food. You are a omnivore or herbivore or a carnivore by choice as a human being not by birth. Most animals do not have that choice as either they cannot either digest certain types of food or simply do not have a choice due to geographical area say in a jungle.
Hulk then why do we not start practicing cannabilism and give the person before his death a lot of oxycontin and percs and sever his neck with a swift blow? This would be much less painful than any animal that is being killed under "careful" conditions. Honestly how many people actually practice that you and me clearly know that most do not and even if they did it is not justified. So human beings apparently come here only 6000 years ago start slaughtering animals for their food which is justified under the quran as long as they are died a "humanitarian" death. How is any killing humanitarian? There is no such killing as humanitarian. Death is the end of your consciousness life on earth. You are taking away that privilege that the animals have to life just like you would assume it would be wrong for a man to kill another man and take his privilege of life away.
Another question of mine to anyone is since you go to paradise in the afterlife and live a life of eternal happiness and joy why should a person who kills a fellow muslim be sentenced to execution or death? Shouldn't he be paraded around the city for ending someone's misery on this planet earth and who gave the victim a quicker journey to the paradise?
great response to my post hulk. I am sure it shouldn't be that hard to read a paragraph and responding but you are able to memorize the quran in a month. contradiction don't you think?
i understand qatada that islam encourages and practices the the humane slaughter of animals....if there is ever such a thing as humane killing which I disagree with but that's another thing since end result is the same..I would just like a direct response to my questions on moral etc on the issues i raised up on my previous posts. thank you
Morality is according to interpretation. As Muslims, we believe God defines what's allowed, what isn't. We believe God has allowed us to use all that is on Earth for our benefit, while being merciful. So we can use all the resources on the planet without causing excessive pollution which can harm other species, and similarly - God has given us animals which we can use to ride on, to use to eat, and to benefit from their fur, meat, and milk etc.
Another question of mine to anyone is since you go to paradise in the afterlife and live a life of eternal happiness and joy why should a person who kills a fellow muslim be sentenced to execution or death? Shouldn't he be paraded around the city for ending someone's misery on this planet earth and who gave the victim a quicker journey to the paradise?
We as Muslims (meaning: submitters to God) are promised a happy life in this world as obedient servants of God, who encourage people to do good and prevent them from evil and vices (again, according to the guidance of the religion.) We are forbidden by God to kill fellow Muslims, they are our brothers/sisters, and that allows society to function well and nicely.
Anyone who obeys the guidance is promised a happy and pleasing life in this world, and a pleasing one in the life to come. This is because the guidance given to us is for our own betterment, a guide to live a harmonious life. It is our test in this world to strive to do good, even if others (including our self urges or other people) who might tell us to do otherwise. This is the nature of the test - to remain loyal and sincere to God through easy and difficult times.
So since God has told us that the blood of another Muslim is sacred, we are forbidden from spilling it. We are commanded to be supporters of each other, supporters of the guidance. That will open the way for us to have a pleasing life in this world, and an even better one in Paradise.
So since God has told us that the blood of another Muslim is sacred, we are forbidden from spilling it. We are commanded to be supporters of each other, supporters of the guidance. That will open the way for us to have a pleasing life in this world, and an even better one in Paradise.
i guess that's where our difference comes. You use morality because a book said so I use morality with my brain.
Just some food for thought; You are a product of what your society has taught you, just like Muslims are a product of their society, Islam, and intellect.
There's no such thing as pure rationalism. Our thoughts are always influenced by what we've been taught by those surrounding us since childhood.
joboman: how can you be so sure that the morality your brain is telling you the right one. Certainly, your neurotransmitters in substantia nigra, hippocampus, frontal cortex could be whack and yet what you think might seem moral to you. I mean, really, you have that much blind faith in the perfectness of your brain's functioning?
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Just some food for thought; You are a product of what your society has taught you, just like Muslims are a product of their society, Islam, and intellect.
There's no such thing as pure rationalism. Our thoughts are always influenced by what we've been taught by those surrounding us since childhood.
Qatatda I don't disagree at all that there is any such thing as pure rationalism. Also qatada if I was a product of what society has taught me I would be a devoted hindu still believing in God. I would also be taking a major in becoming a doctor, engineer, or some IB. Yet I am an agnostic and a major in philosophy everything that goes against what my family wants me to be or what they raised me up to be. Close to nothing has influenced me Qatada in life. I observe everything there is to in life then with my own brain which i consider to be rational over a period of observation of society seeing which things could be rational and which things could amount up to be rational I then make my own decisions.
joboman: how can you be so sure that the morality your brain is telling you the right one. Certainly, your neurotransmitters in substantia nigra, hippocampus, frontal cortex could be whack and yet what you think might seem moral to you. I mean, really, you have that much blind faith in the perfectness of your brain's functioning?
Cosmic it is hillarious that you keep arguing the functions of the brain when yet you blindly believe in a god that you have never seen but just in the pure blind faith that one day after you die you will see him. Morality to me is an unbiased opinion of nature through my own unbiased observations of it. That is the best I or any other human being can do since we only have certain capabilities. Who knows my brain might be out of whack right? But I trust my brain rather than God or Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.
Qatatda I don't disagree at all that there is any such thing as pure rationalism. Also qatada if I was a product of what society has taught me I would be a devoted hindu still believing in God. I would also be taking a major in becoming a doctor, engineer, or some IB. Yet I am an agnostic and a major in philosophy everything that goes against what my family wants me to be or what they raised me up to be. Close to nothing has influenced me Qatada in life. I observe everything there is to in life then with my own brain which i consider to be rational over a period of observation of society seeing which things could be rational and which things could amount up to be rational I then make my own decisions.
I'm really glad you're opening your mind up to newer ideas, but also ask yourself this - which philosophy have you taken instead of your hindu culture? You've taken the western paradigm as your ideal standard to judge other beliefs. One of the reasons why this paradigm is popular in the world today is due to western culture dominating all countries including India.
I'm not going to judge you because you seem like a really good person, but I will ask you to keep an open mind on this forum to the possibility of Islam being true. Why? Simply because Islam is an alternative and does make good sense, in some ways even more than western philosophy.
Joboman, if you find a watch in the middle of a desert. With your "rational" brain what are all the information you can deduce out of it?
Is it just a random watch that i see lying in the middle of a desert or is there a significance to it like I am trying to survive and the watch is the only thing that is there and I need to deduce the information to it?
I'm really glad you're opening your mind up to newer ideas, but also ask yourself this - which philosophy have you taken instead of your hindu culture? You've taken the western paradigm as your ideal standard to judge other beliefs. One of the reasons why this paradigm is popular in the world today is due to western culture dominating all countries including India.
I'm not going to judge you because you seem like a really good person, but I will ask you to keep an open mind on this forum to the possibility of Islam being true. Why? Simply because Islam is an alternative and does make good sense, in some ways even more than western philosophy.
Hello qatada I haven't adopted any specific kind of philosophy. I am much more of an Indian than an american in terms of how my overall personality and behavior is since I was born and brought up in India until I was 10 years old and hindi was my first language. To your second part of it to be honest I mean I will have as much of an open mind or a belief to islam as I would with hinduism, judaism, or any other religion. There is a lot of good things that you can take away from each of these books, I mean personally I would take what I think are the good things away from it and throw the bad away. But personally just because a book has a good amount of wise sayings in it and then says in the end that they are a prophet to god. No I refuse to believe that.
Is it just a random watch that i see lying in the middle of a desert or is there a significance to it like I am trying to survive and the watch is the only thing that is there and I need to deduce the information to it?
it is just a random watch you see lying in the middle of a desert, you are not necessarily in a situation of difficulty in surviving.
it would literally mean nothing to me then. If I do not need it to survive and if I already have another watch. two options either leave it there forget about it or take it back when you get back to the mainland and give it to the authorities if it is of value and let them handle it.
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