Atheism's Opposition with Nature..

format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion

I know, right? I shudder to think what would become of this forum without me.

Oh yeah, I agree!

Well, I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right? Also, I don't recall indicating that I was emotionally disturbed by your post, just that it wasn't called for. No need to get defensive. You make good posts sometimes, but I don't think this was one of those times. I figured I'd chime in since I saw something I didn't quite agree with. That's kind of the point of a forum, no?

Also, I'm a bit shocked someone would send negative reps over something like this. It kind of defeats the purpose of the rep system, I think...

The way I see it, you're projecting. As stated I have no feelings one way or the other you may or may not subscribe to that, I am not under any obligation to make you believe it. I am simply putting my input and commenting on the recycling of the atheist manifesto which is much akin to the first post only a polar opposite. I don't see anything disturbing about that at all- I don't see offense and above all I don't see 'hate' which is the go to buoy to net trolls, and even if hate were the name of the game, it is no more breaking the rules of the forum nor the constitution of this country. Except I see it as absurd to invest emotionally where no emotional investment is deserved.
a little emotional disturbance is like a free ride at sea world. We're going to have to charge you for the adrenaline!

Also, I don't know who is leaving you a neggy, again I'd find it hard to believe anyone would give a d@mn but there's no law against passing those out either..

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

I see no reason why atheists should answer that question.

But, I do know there are many theories on what sparked the big bang. Some believe the universe is a cyclical series of big bangs and big crunches. Others believe that the big bang was sparked by some occurence in another universe (and that there are many making up the multiverse). Some have even come up with theories on how we could create a black hole, and there has been some concern about creating one by accident at Cern.

But at the end of the day, I don't claim to know, and I don't think anybody else knows for sure either. But it'll be exciting as research improves and we get better answers to such questions.

for a domino effect to happen, something has to cause the first domino to fall. not only that, but something has to first create that domino. likewise something or being has to cause the big bang. you wrote (in bold) that there are theories on how we could create a black hole. note that you didn't write how a black hole could be creatd spontaneously by itself out of nothing. that shows that you feel (or believe) that something should cause the creation of something else or some happening. If it is a cyclical occurence, then something should cause the first in those series. It cannot come by itself out of nowhere. It is not possible for the human mind to decipher that something could come out of nothing.

now if you ask that if we assume God was behind it all, then where did God come from, the answer is simple: God is every-existent. He has no beginning. He was always there.

Now you may say (as many athiests have told me before) that why couldn't the universe be ever-existent, the answer is that it has already been proven that the universe was not ever-existent. It has a beginning. just like all other things in the unvierse (excluding God).

so in the end, the only correct conclusion is that God exists and He created everything but He was not created. He was ever-existent and will always exist.

It is really simple and more in-tune with our nature than the belief that something came out of nothing or that eternally one thing led to another but there was no beginning of the first; the first being self-existent but couldnt exist forever and had to come to an end. logically what has an end has to have a beginning. only that which has no end can be beginning-less.

Since this is a thread related to atheism, I just wanted to throw out something that had been in my mind recently.
When I read about how if there was no gravity on this planet, then even a leaf could technically cause harm to us. Now isn't it wonderful that humans take cover under trees and the leaf and gravity combined are designed in a fashion as to not cause harm to the human? I mean such precision could just not have evolved itself.

Also something that has been on my mind. You know when someone designs a particular thing and when they design something else, you can tell that it is the same person who designed it? Well, when I look at the arrangement of solar system and the molecule, thats what I think.

Anyways, my thoughts may sound "duh" to some people but I just wanted to put it out there.

format_quote Originally Posted by arjmand

then even a leaf could technically cause harm to us.

That's one small microcosm of the things that go right all the time that if steers off course we'd cease to exist, not just gravity but any tiny little enzyme or protein in the body in an aberrant fashion could render us mutants or peeing pure acid, a degree off course and we'd freeze to death or burn to death.. but hey 'nature' dictated that it should get it right the first time around across billions of species plus higher reticular function, plus noesis plus perfect living conditions of which we've made a mess of things.


An-Nahl (The Bee)[16:18] [RECITE]

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Wain taAAuddoo niAAmata Allahi la tuhsooha inna Allaha laghafoorun raheemun

16:18 If ye would count up the favours of Allah, never would ye be able to number them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


It is precisely why I have zero tolerance for Atheists and other Satanists. They're free to deny or believe as they choose, but they're not free at all to offer the half assed responses they offer while dodge the difficult Q's at the same time micturating their stinking attitude in the form of fifth grade biology and expecting the rest should lap up their words of wisdom. They're just as ineffectual as their counterparts who subscribe to other forms of Satanism.

Yes sis, you just reminded me more of what fascinates me. I always tells myself that if I had a factory consisting of millions and billions of parts, not just big ones but even very small ones, I would not be able to repair it. Not only that, I would be surprised if it would last more than a year. But look at our body, billion things going on, breaking and repairing, yet we don't even realize. Subhan Allah!

Most people don't realize that simply adding amino acids together will not give you functional proteins nor will it give form. When we denature proteins and re-anneal them, they don't go back to their original form or function or else let them bring back the dead and give em life. At any rate, this is a tired discussion especially with ones who have been here more than half a decade yet same to learn nothing and impart nothing.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

I see no reason why atheists should answer that question.

But, I do know there are many theories on what sparked the big bang.

Are scientists prepared to accept the theory of whether God exists - and is responsible for Creation? OR is that another un-scientific theory?

Because poking holes in a curtain full of theories, doesn't really tell you anything does it? How can an honest scientist imagine there are multiverses with not a shred of evidence to go on and only his or her own feeble imagination - and in the next breath, discard the possibility that God "Created" ???

Seems ridiculous to me.

Scimi

Yay Atheism bashing!
(sarcasm)

not on my watch

I find nothing wrong with bashing atheism so long as it is done tastefully & correctly. People are always of the notion that we've to cower or not expose their beliefs or practices lest they do the same.. Well frankly they do far worse. If you believe in your message, there's no reason not to speak of it with candor or do a little compare/contrast/point out errors .. isn't that what 'comparative' is all about? I didn't say you pyg are an abomination to humanity, you're the cause of the moral decay of society, you're the reason people are driving over two year old girls and letting them die. I said Atheism is a brand of Satanism, if you're not worshipping God, you're worshipping the devil and that devil comes in different forms. Apathy and materialism is one such devil and we see that the lesser people become spiritual the more concerned with physicalism the less that other stuff matters.. I was just reading a post by another atheist 'Trumble' who was complaining about how ridiculous it is for people to breed. It is all about numbers.. no humanity averages into anything and I think that's is safe to conclude because that's exactly what they write and preach.. hedonism ..


I didn't invent this so why should I feel ashamed? Should I also apologize for their beliefs?

I just like to see the atheist answer my questions for once they still remain unanswered.

Atheists are clever though - they don't ever stick to the subject and can veer off into another scientific mumbo jumbo type explanation for why theists are apparently "stupid"... yet, when I ask them to answer a question, they deflect.

This is a known politician tactic. A way to tell someone to get lost in such a way that they won't even mind it. Except, I see thru that ruse... and kinda force them on the back foot.

If an atheist wants to go toe to toe in a debate, then let them come with an honest intent to actually debate - and not deflect.

All too often, I see them deflect a question because they are uncomfortable with the answer themselves. IN contrast, a Muslim will always say "Allah knows best" if we don't have an answer - and we are honest enough to go and seek the answer out in order to let the debate continue.

I had an atheist present to me the whole "singularity" issue in the Big Bang debates back on WUP... when I asked them if they are starting to beleive in God, they never came back to the forum.

Their own science points towards a creator, yet they are adamant that the possibility of a God is not a scientific theory... pfft.

Well, if it isn't scientific enough - then neither is the possibility that multiverses can exist et al.

They cannot have it both ways... the hypocrisy of their statements are ridiculous. Double standards. And my time is far too valuable for these hypocrites.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab

Yay Atheism bashing!
(sarcasm)

No offense here but of all thing why did you choose ten (Kanji). I am a big Akuma fan of the original Shinto Mythology and ten is the symbol of the heavens and of the gods in Shintoism. Your avatar basically means "ascended to god". Not in the normal sense like going to heaven but in the Dharmic Buddhist terminology of Atman meaning you yourself are god. So the kanji basically implies egotheism and says "I am god" or "Within the heavens". The word has so many good meaning but it also has quite a few blasphemous meanings also. Just seems weird you would have that

Sorry But I am a nerd on such subject matters since Ten is a core foundation of my religion. I just hope you didn't pick that symbol without knowing its meaning because Japanese Heaven is not Islamic heaven
Wish ya luck bro

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

I find nothing wrong with bashing atheism so long as it is done tastefully ; correctly. People are always of the notion that we've to cower or not expose their beliefs or practices lest they do the same.. Well frankly they do far worse. If you believe in your message, there's no reason not to speak of it with candor or do a little compare/contrast/point out errors .. isn't that what 'comparative' is all about? I didn't say you pyg are an abomination to humanity, you're the cause of the moral decay of society, you're the reason people are driving over two year old girls and letting them die. I said Atheism is a brand of Satanism, if you're not worshipping God, you're worshipping the devil and that devil comes in different forms. Apathy and materialism is one such devil and we see that the lesser people become spiritual the more concerned with physicalism the less that other stuff matters.. I was just reading a post by another atheist 'Trumble' who was complaining about how ridiculous it is for people to breed. It is all about numbers.. no humanity averages into anything and I think that's is safe to conclude because that's exactly what they write and preach.. hedonism ..
I didn't invent this so why should I feel ashamed? Should I also apologize for their beliefs?

Well I do not deny I find much hypocrisy in your words but man is not created to live by morals simply.

~"The devils of past religions have always, at least in part, had animal characteristics, evidence of man's constant need to deny that he too is an animal, for to do so would serve a mighty blow to his impoverished ego"~

If you do not understand that quote then it basically means that man is nothing but a animal in nature although he is not an animal in spirit. But while you say atheism gets rid of morals it does not hint towards violence and murder. Atheist set a system up so EVERYONE can be happy yet in the Ummah nations kill each other for anything and most of them try to use the Islam as justification. They murder their daughters and children yet that is NOT Islam yet when someone here does the same you say it is Atheism. Religion does not bring peace as you already know it. Morals themselves are invented and man never had them from day one. Morals are acquired and gained through childhood by the parents who were taught and so forth from generation to generation. Apathy and materialism is not a devil, it is the human neurological makeup. I am apathetic right now except with a twist, I am a sociopath with the psychological exams to prove it lol.

Atheist and Satanist do not get along on a common ground which is hedonism and natural order. Mans natural state I may add. Atheist think that we should better our society by morals and understanding while a Satanist realize the ultimate truth, no such thing exist. We must create something unnatural to be natural which does not make sense. Peace cannot be achieved because peace itself is unnatural. Nature is on constant chaos and entropy is its backbone. Life is not complex at all but religions and man made morals make it so.
I took note of how you said nothing is wrong with bashing Atheism yet it is wrong to bash Islam. I do not wish to bash either because it is making someone happy and I admit Islam made me happy for a little while. Actually it made me lose fear and made me the happiest I have ever been so I cannot deny the joy you feel from it. Nothing is wrong with that. But Atheism has achieved more peace and understanding then any other religion, period. Religions are esoteric, Atheism is universal. There is no common ground in Islam but in Atheism the common ground is people and that is all.
To compare something you must understand it first, you only wish to make yourself look better not explain yourself.
You cannot prove something through betterment but only through understanding.
Forgive me if I sounded brash but I am a little frustrated with the servers to this site, they have been failing for over a month.

I wish you well regardless . Also I found the no god picture hilarious, because it fits the unbearable stupidity atheists have

format_quote Originally Posted by BadOlPuttyTat

man is nothing but a animal in nature

That's true only in your case and those who choose to subscribe to base instincts .. I didn't read much else beyond that I really don't know why you bother!

best,

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

That's true only in your case and those who choose to subscribe to base instincts .. I didn't read much else beyond that I really don't know why you bother!

best,

Doesn't matter if it is me or you we are both the same. We all act according to primitive instincts in our lives the day we are born. Some people deny their animalistic nature and others accept it, that is the only difference between you and me really.
The reason why you do not bother to read is because you do not accept the basics of human nature. We are here to discuss while you are here to feel better about yourself.
But shame on you for not reading! *hits you on head with a stick*. No harm meant

format_quote Originally Posted by BadOlPuttyTat

Doesn't matter if it is me or you we are both the same. We all act according to primitive instincts in our lives the day we are born. Some people deny their animalistic nature and others accept it, that is the only difference between you and me really.
The reason why you do not bother to read is because you do not accept the basics of human nature. We are here to discuss while you are here to feel better about yourself.
But shame on you for not reading! *hits you on head with a stick*. No harm meant

maybe you feel good about yourself by referring to your beastly origins? Who is to say that you dont believe in your animal origins because it makes you feel happy?

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

maybe you feel good about yourself by referring to your beastly origins? Who is to say that you dont believe in your animal origins because it makes you feel happy?

Hey bro. I was just thinking about you سبحان الله -ان شاء الله you're better?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

For one to hate one would have to care. I don't see why anyone would give a d@mn one way or the other!

But evidently you do care so very much. I have yet to see a thread on atheism (or any non-muslim religion) where you failed to rush in to "score points" (as you put it) or where you failed to snidely belittle the kafir and tell everyone what you've decided atheism (or the other person's religion) is. You always insist you know what they believe better than they do, and completely ignore what they actually believe. That isn't comparative religion. That is just childishness. It would be like if I came in here and started telling you all what I've decided Islam is and how it is inferior, without letting any of you speak what you as muslims actually believe. It is a lot easier to attack strawmen than to have actual conversation. The hate is obvious, you can't go a single post without attempting an insult. It is all very predictable. The other muslims I address below speak civilly (even though they respectfully disagree with me), and you could learn from them, but I realize you have no interest in doing so.

format_quote Originally Posted by WRITER

It is really simple and more in-tune with our nature than the belief that something came out of nothing or that eternally one thing led to another but there was no beginning of the first

This part of your argument (and most of your post above it) is perfectly circular and self refuting, and I think you know that. You say that everything needs a creator, but then you do special pleading saying God doesn't. So therefore, everything doesn't need a creator.

the first being self-existent but couldnt exist forever and had to come to an end. logically what has an end has to have a beginning. only that which has no end can be beginning-less.

Here you get interesting, and I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I don't see why it would necessarily be so. And I especially don't see how that would point to your particular vision of a first cause, much less a sentient creator, much less your particular concept of God. You also don't address infinite regression here. Why can't the chain go back in time forever, in a chain of things that have beginnings and endings (as you are claiming is neccessary)

To answer the original question in the post you were replying to, no atheists don't need answers for how the universe came to be. Atheism in itself doesn't in any way address that. Atheism istself is nothing more than a lack of theism, a lack of believing in Gods. Atheists of course may have ideas on these things, but they don't come from atheism. I for one don't claim to know. I have no problem with not knowing, and I have no problem with infinite regression of that turns out to be where the evidence takes us.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

Are scientists prepared to accept the theory of whether God exists - and is responsible for Creation? OR is that another un-scientific theory?

It would be scientific if you studied it scientifically. If you can make the question of his existence falsifiable, and then go on to gather evidence of his existence then sure, you could build a scientific theory on it. With enough of that maybe you maybe even build a strong theory. But what findings would falsify God?

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

maybe you feel good about yourself by referring to your beastly origins? Who is to say that you dont believe in your animal origins because it makes you feel happy?

How does it make me feel better? We are all beast by nature and every time we have power we feel likes gods and every time we realize there is a god we like slaves.
I am not an atheist saying man is just an animals who has become highly evolved from a monkey.
My origins are not beastly, they are divine as everything is immaculately created by god but everything acts and does as it is intended to do. Man should not be overly conceited and think he has ascended past an animal because what else do we call ourselves? We are mammals that distinguish ourselves from animals despite our genetic bonds?
Nothing wrong in saying you are an animal but the only harm is saying your a mindless creature with no free will. We are bond to instinct but we do not have to act upon them which is the greatest gift we have.
If I was to say I am an animal it would not make me happy at all