Are we designed to believe in God?

Sis Glo I hope you take a moment to listen to this audio clip



The clip doesn't specifically address your post but I think it's still worth listening to.

To me the existence of God is obvious. If you were sitting alone on a beach and out of nowhere a shoe fell on top of your head, you will always be wondering where that shoe came from. It's a simple understanding that every creation has a source. It's part of our nature to want to learn. Even kids, they wonder about where they come from.

A lot of the athiests that I've encountered seem to neglect their ability to reason and instead go all-out on "scientific evidence", which might sound amazing because of how science has improved our lives but it's really quite silly to rely on that and ignore your own ability to reason. Scientific research helps you in understanding how nature works so that it may benefit you, but once you put that tool of study above your own ability to think and reflect then you've become sorry to say less intelligent.

I know that some non-believers are thinking about theories why humans should have that need (in terms of evolutionary development).

I hope it's all right if I issue a correction here: their theories are about alleged reasons as to how we have that need. "Why" is a subject which will always elude the sciences on every issue just by the very nature of the word.

It may not be of any use to point this out, though. In my experience the atheist will usually dodge the fact with an equivocation fallacy, confusing "why" in the sense of "what makes things one way when in theory they could hypothetically have been in another way instead" with "why" in the sense of "for what conscious motive", and accuse you of therefore begging the question as to whether there is a living entity involved. One way or another it's always about semantics...

Yes I think we are. I say that because people who submit to a higher power are more organized while those who don't are more likely to go the wrong way. To further elaborate it, why is it that an army crumbles when their leader dies. That's because they don't have any directions to follow.

Greetings Glo,

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Are we 'designed' to believe in God? What I mean by that is, do we have a deep intrinsic desire or need for God? God given?

Why would a Supreme Creator, bring into existence and give life to a creation that He sustains in every possible way - and then, not expect acknowledgement, gratitude and worship?

Allah himself says:

And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. (Quran 51:56)


In other words, THIS is the reason for our existence.

There is no other purpose for us in this short, temporary life on this earth - but to worship our Creator.

Our spouses, children, careers, wealth, possessions - are all either a means to this end (i.e. His worship), or a means of our distraction, and attaching our hearts to this world.

Allah (subhanawata'ala) also says:

The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him.

And there is not a thing except that it exalts [ Allah ] by His praise, but you do not understand their [way of] exalting.

Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving. (Quran 17:44)


SubhanAllah.
It is only mans rebellion and shaytaan that leads him astray from his true purpose.

From a personal point of view, I do not believe that these types of topics can provide us with much benefit......instead it may be a means of fitnah/ mischief, by us trying to 'answer' a question to which, we believe, our Creator has already provided the answer.
Its not really up for discussion for a believer.


God bless.

Thank you all for your thoughtful and interesting thoughts and comments.
I am not interested to discuss or debate anything - just to ponder your views and thoughts.

Peace

3. We are anthropomorphic in our thinking - we have a tendency to believe the world revolves around us (eg that rainbow must be a 'sign').

I have always been quick to challenge this.

First, because the people making this argument seem to be getting confused between anthropocentrism or anthropomorphism and mere personification. We humans tend to describe things using human reference points, even inside our own heads, because it’s helpful for us to do so. It's similar to the "write what you know" principle. But that doesn't mean that we really think of anything that way. Several times a day I say to myself, "This computer just doesn't want to give me an inch!" Am I really projecting my humanity onto the computer? No, not really. I know metal and silicon when I see it. I’m just in the habit of talking a certain way. I’ll bet there have probably even been cultures where people never did that sort of thing.

Second, because every religion that I know of, past and present, centers in some way or other—in some sense or other—around the idea of something out there which is much higher than the self, to which we must give up our egotism and devote ourselves. Something which humanity pales in comparison to.

Third, because The Qur'an is, more than any other religion in all of history, anti-anthropocentrism. “The creation of the heavens and the earth is far greater than the creation of humanity, but most humans are ignorant [of this fact].” (Surah 40, verse 57, Khalidi)

Fourth, if there are signs in nature then how does that make everything revolve around us in particular? Why can’t other species be in on it too? Like djinn—or, for that matter, aliens or extradimensional beings? Why just us? Where does it say it’s all about us? I have never seen one tiny little whit of scriptural support for this notion that religion makes the whole world revolve around humans, in our own holy texts or anyone else’s. Not once. Not one quote from one book. In fact 40:57 up there proves quite the opposite is the case. Antireligious people just made the whole thing up out of their own imaginations (or maybe out of a misunderstanding of the fine tuning argument). It’s a total straw man.

Finally, even if we did have an innate tendency to see signs in things, I could just turn right around and say that this tendency is what makes us so neurologically well-equipped to spot the very real signs that are actually there, whereas other animals might not notice them. Surely no one’s thinking of making an appeal to motive fallacy?

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Thank you all for your thoughtful and interesting thoughts and comments.
I am not interested to discuss or debate anything - just to ponder your views and thoughts.

Peace

just kidding!

^^ Otto is much more to the point, isn't he?

We are self-aware, we are born and we die. It is 'natural' for a self-aware mortal to at one point in his/her life question, 'who am I? where am I from? where am I going? Is there a greater Purpose?'. It is also a natural and a universal belief that something can't come from nothing. It is also the norm for any intelligent creature to believe that whoever created him/her must be greater and more intelligent than him/her.

Those who don't believe in a higher power or creator for whatever reason, are certainly the anomalies.

format_quote Originally Posted by IAmZamzam

I have always been quick to challenge this.

Yes - although the question wasn't about Islam in particular and my answer wasn't about Islam in particular.

format_quote Originally Posted by IAmZamzam

if there are signs in nature then how does that make everything revolve around us in particular? Why can’t other species be in on it too?

Signs are interesting but you have to be aware that something unusual has happened in order to feel anything at all.

Recognition of potentially significant signs is clearly a strong human characteristic. Our brains are very good at filtering out unnecessary information and focusing on differences or irregularities. So when something striking happens - for instance a comet - then we definitely notice it and we look for reasons. We have a good instinct for noticing something that appears to be against the laws of nature (as we understand them at the time).

However, as our understanding of the workings of nature increases, there are fewer events that impress us as significant.

Did I say anything about how we feel?

We have a good instinct for noticing something that appears to be against the laws of nature (as we understand them at the time).

Then why have so many people believed in a designer who didn't believe in miracles, including that whole long deist movement during the Enlightenment? Why was it noticing what the laws of nature do to the world that led me to belief in God? They are, after all, what give things their order. We may be built to notice patterns, but not a dang thing you do can change the fact that there very objectively are patterns to be noticed. Just look at mathematics. Look at the fact that we are capable of having such a discipline as mathematics. Whatever our reasons for doing so, and however instinctual they may or may not be, it remains that we use math to describe objectively true facts, and even if human beings had never existed the facts of the matter would not just go POOF! and disappear. I hope you realize that. I'm glad to be part of a species that's good at spotting such things, however and why-ever it happened.

However, as our understanding of the workings of nature increases, there are fewer events that impress us as significant

Is that why Islam keeps getting more and more widespread? If anything the popularity of religion in general keeps waxing instead of waning as history moves on.

format_quote Originally Posted by IAmZamzam

Why was it noticing what the laws of nature do to the world that led me to belief in God?

Well, you're talking about particular experiences and about Islam whereas I'm talking about the notion of a religious urge in general. Many early religions had a strong element of explaining natural phenomena. Of course, some people today come to their faith as much through perception of order as irregularity. But the key motivations still seem to stem from the big irregularities that lie outside the pattern - especially the moment of creation.

format_quote Originally Posted by IAmZamzam

If anything the popularity of religion in general keeps waxing instead of waning as history moves on.

In the context of the question at the start of this thread, the relevant change is not the ratio between religions but the rise of atheism/agnosticism, which has been enormous over the last 200 years. I suggest that the parallel rise of science is mostly responsible for that change. (Although not deliberately or as an objective.)

Partly because we now feel nature seems to require less supernatural intervention than we thought before, and partly because religious leaders have often chosen to oppose their faith against a particular scientific advance (eg suppression of Galileo).

I don't know. I can't remember anything from when I was a kid. It was only when I started thinking about death I began to become more aware of a higher being.